LOH's Caterham 7 Super Sprint
Discussion
An overdue update!
As the race shuttle was purchased in September we all booked a trackday together (myself and some old 'ring mates who all keep in touch) for early October I think.
Cadwell Park, which as fantastic as it is I'd never visited before. I'd got myself in the habit of specialising in the Nürburgring, with sometimes a visit to Spa as well. Now with the arrival of a young family, two businesses to run and everything else life throws at you it's really just not as easy as it was to disappear over to the continent for a few days at a time.
So with the arrival of the little 7 and a more road focused type of fun on the cards I figured I can at least do some more UK trackdays.
The car was given a final mechanical check over, tools and spares were packed and off to deepest, darkest Lincolnshire I went.
We booked a nice little hotel for the night before and all arrived for dinner and a catch up. Brilliant to all be back together again.
It was everyone's first look at the 7 and as much as everyone thought it looked fantastic no one thought it was in the least bit "me"!
The morning was cold and damp and I'm not going to lie, the car was an utter nightmare.
The little eco tyres provided zero grip so as well as learning the track I had to put up with front brakes locking at anything other than a light press of the pedal, lift off oversteer everywhere and absolutely no confidence to hit any apex at anything approaching track speeds.
Best mate Steve who was following in his brand new Yaris GR (the 911RS being saved for big track days) said it looked a complete mess, going sideways at every corner.
As the morning wore on, the weather got worse and worse, the Brooklands screens proving as much use as a chocolate fireguard the car was parked up for the morning-the instruction I'd booked for late morning was pointless as the rain was coming down in sheets. Not only that, I genuinely felt I was a distraction and danger to other track users-not something I've ever felt in all my years and thousands and thousands of laps.
We took off for lunch at a local pub to wait out for the sunshine that was promised-and duly arrived right on que-after 12pm.
Suddenly in the semi dry it all started to make sense-I even overtook some cars who didn't appear to be on a slow down lap!
Care was still needed under the trees but with what little heat you could generate into the Avons the grip started to come back.
Going off some other cars out there I'd say performance is about on par with a Clio 172 or similar-they're about under a ton I think and with the Supersprints 95bhp pushing something like 440kg the power to weight must be similar. Anything "proper" is still going to blow the absolute doors off the 7 (if it had any) but it's easily fast enough to keep up with smaller track toys and easily enough to be fun. the punch of the triple can still overwhelm the rears in the dry so you can get the thing moving about.
The problem was putting your faith back into the car. I'd never felt the car was dangerous on the road but it's a fair weather driver and you don't get as close to the limit I suppose. After the shocking morning I did however feel I was a bit of pussy in the thing.
I stayed the latest, my mates had to get back down to London so I plowed on. When I finally put the car away I felt much better about things but still had that nagging doubts about where the limit would be and if I would suddenly cross it unwittingly.
Turns out these little cars are harder to learn than first appeared.
I packed it away, nice and dirty following the track day and thought about booking another track day...
As the race shuttle was purchased in September we all booked a trackday together (myself and some old 'ring mates who all keep in touch) for early October I think.
Cadwell Park, which as fantastic as it is I'd never visited before. I'd got myself in the habit of specialising in the Nürburgring, with sometimes a visit to Spa as well. Now with the arrival of a young family, two businesses to run and everything else life throws at you it's really just not as easy as it was to disappear over to the continent for a few days at a time.
So with the arrival of the little 7 and a more road focused type of fun on the cards I figured I can at least do some more UK trackdays.
The car was given a final mechanical check over, tools and spares were packed and off to deepest, darkest Lincolnshire I went.
We booked a nice little hotel for the night before and all arrived for dinner and a catch up. Brilliant to all be back together again.
It was everyone's first look at the 7 and as much as everyone thought it looked fantastic no one thought it was in the least bit "me"!
The morning was cold and damp and I'm not going to lie, the car was an utter nightmare.
The little eco tyres provided zero grip so as well as learning the track I had to put up with front brakes locking at anything other than a light press of the pedal, lift off oversteer everywhere and absolutely no confidence to hit any apex at anything approaching track speeds.
Best mate Steve who was following in his brand new Yaris GR (the 911RS being saved for big track days) said it looked a complete mess, going sideways at every corner.
As the morning wore on, the weather got worse and worse, the Brooklands screens proving as much use as a chocolate fireguard the car was parked up for the morning-the instruction I'd booked for late morning was pointless as the rain was coming down in sheets. Not only that, I genuinely felt I was a distraction and danger to other track users-not something I've ever felt in all my years and thousands and thousands of laps.
We took off for lunch at a local pub to wait out for the sunshine that was promised-and duly arrived right on que-after 12pm.
Suddenly in the semi dry it all started to make sense-I even overtook some cars who didn't appear to be on a slow down lap!
Care was still needed under the trees but with what little heat you could generate into the Avons the grip started to come back.
Going off some other cars out there I'd say performance is about on par with a Clio 172 or similar-they're about under a ton I think and with the Supersprints 95bhp pushing something like 440kg the power to weight must be similar. Anything "proper" is still going to blow the absolute doors off the 7 (if it had any) but it's easily fast enough to keep up with smaller track toys and easily enough to be fun. the punch of the triple can still overwhelm the rears in the dry so you can get the thing moving about.
The problem was putting your faith back into the car. I'd never felt the car was dangerous on the road but it's a fair weather driver and you don't get as close to the limit I suppose. After the shocking morning I did however feel I was a bit of pussy in the thing.
I stayed the latest, my mates had to get back down to London so I plowed on. When I finally put the car away I felt much better about things but still had that nagging doubts about where the limit would be and if I would suddenly cross it unwittingly.
Turns out these little cars are harder to learn than first appeared.
I packed it away, nice and dirty following the track day and thought about booking another track day...
Edited by LaurasOtherHalf on Tuesday 28th December 17:23
Bobberoo said:
Great update, and a silly question, why not have a second set of wheels with more track focused tyres?
The problem is finding tyres, or specifically track focussed tyres in this size. Everything is an eco tyre as the Avons are.The only other option is finding a bigger set of wheels although everything I’ve read suggests wider wheels won’t fit-I perhaps need to get in touch with the factory.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Bobberoo said:
Great update, and a silly question, why not have a second set of wheels with more track focused tyres?
The problem is finding tyres, or specifically track focussed tyres in this size. Everything is an eco tyre as the Avons are.The only other option is finding a bigger set of wheels although everything I’ve read suggests wider wheels won’t fit-I perhaps need to get in touch with the factory.
But the whole point of this car is to find it’s limits with what you’ve got. Otherwise you’ll be, changing the tyre/wheel width, then you’ll want better brakes, then a bit more power and before you know it you be on the phone to Caterham wanting an upgrade to a more track focused/more powerful car. I’d much rather be driving your car at 100% than a 620r at 10%.
Bobberoo said:
Banded steels? I see it's wearing steels anyway, retain your offset but have a set widened slightly?
This thought has crossed my mind, the problem is with the width of the cycle wings I believe.Lordbenny said:
But the whole point of this car is to find it’s limits with what you’ve got.
100% agree, however the tyres were not made with this car in mind and I can’t help feeling the extreme low weight means it can’t get any heat into them, especially in the wet. As in the post, the car wasn’t just slow but in my opinion, dangerous. Or dangerously slow!
MB140 said:
Got to say going to Caldwell to learn a cars handling characteristics is not the track I would have chosen. It’s about the most narrow and unforgiving track in the uk if you get it wrong.
Would you benefit more from trying a different more forgiving track.
You’re probably right, the next update will explain.Would you benefit more from trying a different more forgiving track.
After a mixed up day at Cadwell, I spied another day at one of my old favourites-Croft. If you've never been, try it out. It's a lovely little circuit and more technical than it first seems with various different lines available than what you first think.
I booked fairly last minute as yet again, the wether report was mixed and I didn't fancy a wasted day in the rain again-not just (OK, mostly) because of the tyre performance as experienced at Cadwell but let's be honest-the car has no windows or doors!
Anyway, cold it may have been but dry it was forecast so the booking was made and the trailer loaded up again.
In the dry, it was much easier to get comfortable with how the car performs and within a few laps it was easy to be pushing the limits and experiencing more of what the chassis could offer.
In the morning I was having some great laps with a 911 Turbo which was much faster on the straights but pretty even through the bends. We kept each other company for a few laps each session before he eventually left me behind. Again, some of the slower track cars proved great equals on track.
The car is very easy to provoke into a slide with the crappy tyres although I've really only got comfortable enough to do it on power and through the slower bends. I think, as alluded to above the secret might be to drive it in a style I haven't been used to for many years.
In my old MR2 Spyder, it was easy to tip the car into oversteer using weight transfer and turn in a four wheeled drift-think Jim Clark in a Lotus Cortina.
Rather than the huge grip and speed I'm used to these days, I think I might need to adapt to this other way of driving. Rather than looking for grip and and hanging on, I think the car might need to drifted a little more.
I've passengered in faster Caterhams and noticed drivers using this technique before, it might feel a little alien to me these days but I'm sure it might feel like the better way to get speed out of this platform.
If this is the case, perhaps the change of tyres might be a little premature. If it works, a spare set of wheels that can work in the wet would still be needed but for dry days and road use these might still be OK. We'll see soon, Oulton Park is booked for the end of January-now that's a brave decision regarding the weather!
I booked fairly last minute as yet again, the wether report was mixed and I didn't fancy a wasted day in the rain again-not just (OK, mostly) because of the tyre performance as experienced at Cadwell but let's be honest-the car has no windows or doors!
Anyway, cold it may have been but dry it was forecast so the booking was made and the trailer loaded up again.
In the dry, it was much easier to get comfortable with how the car performs and within a few laps it was easy to be pushing the limits and experiencing more of what the chassis could offer.
In the morning I was having some great laps with a 911 Turbo which was much faster on the straights but pretty even through the bends. We kept each other company for a few laps each session before he eventually left me behind. Again, some of the slower track cars proved great equals on track.
The car is very easy to provoke into a slide with the crappy tyres although I've really only got comfortable enough to do it on power and through the slower bends. I think, as alluded to above the secret might be to drive it in a style I haven't been used to for many years.
In my old MR2 Spyder, it was easy to tip the car into oversteer using weight transfer and turn in a four wheeled drift-think Jim Clark in a Lotus Cortina.
Rather than the huge grip and speed I'm used to these days, I think I might need to adapt to this other way of driving. Rather than looking for grip and and hanging on, I think the car might need to drifted a little more.
I've passengered in faster Caterhams and noticed drivers using this technique before, it might feel a little alien to me these days but I'm sure it might feel like the better way to get speed out of this platform.
If this is the case, perhaps the change of tyres might be a little premature. If it works, a spare set of wheels that can work in the wet would still be needed but for dry days and road use these might still be OK. We'll see soon, Oulton Park is booked for the end of January-now that's a brave decision regarding the weather!
nice update..
can you adjust the rear shocks at all?
maybe they are too soft and pitching you in the corner, then lifting off induces tfurther pitch and dramatic lift off oversteer?
was quite dramatic change for me on my seven type car , might be worth having a play over a few laps ?
R
aj
can you adjust the rear shocks at all?
maybe they are too soft and pitching you in the corner, then lifting off induces tfurther pitch and dramatic lift off oversteer?
was quite dramatic change for me on my seven type car , might be worth having a play over a few laps ?
R
aj
Not much of an update, we took the car out on Boxing Day and as my Father nearly froze to death it's been put away since! To be honest the roads have been lousy up here this winter, a combination of a few days of frost meaning road gritting followed by rain which means grime.
I just don't feel like putting the car through all that.
I have however entered two road rallies so far and one concourse event-although that depends if it gets accepted. We had a track day booked for a load of us in January but some family emergencies and illnesses meant we all decided to cancel.
Got in touch with Javelin Trackdays who we booked through two days before the event and explained the situation and they very generously gave us credit for it. Superb customer service and you can't say fairer than that.
Can't wait to get that credit used!
I just don't feel like putting the car through all that.
I have however entered two road rallies so far and one concourse event-although that depends if it gets accepted. We had a track day booked for a load of us in January but some family emergencies and illnesses meant we all decided to cancel.
Got in touch with Javelin Trackdays who we booked through two days before the event and explained the situation and they very generously gave us credit for it. Superb customer service and you can't say fairer than that.
Can't wait to get that credit used!
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