mk4 golf GTTDi

[E36]

Does anybody where the BiB stand with regards to stretched tyres? I got told off for having a little bit of poke on my old E30, but that was because of a low offset; The tyres were correct fitment.

[andye30m3]

Wow this is all getting a bit personnel.

As I see it the golf is a very clean example and the owner obviously looks after it, Whilst the wheels are not my cup of tea I think to refer to it as barry is a bit harsh.

but I also don't think pistonheads has ever been about cosmetic mods on hot hatches, it about an appreciation of great cars and as other have said improving there performance rather than attempting to change them cosmetically.

[Garlick]

andye30m3 said:

Wow this is all getting a bit personnel.

As I see it the golf is a very clean example and the owner obviously looks after it, Whilst the wheels are not my cup of tea I think to refer to it as barry is a bit harsh.

but I also don't think pistonheads has ever been about cosmetic mods on hot hatches, it about an appreciation of great cars and as other have said improving there performance rather than attempting to change them cosmetically.

Wise words.

[Jez64]

They're at it on Adz the Rat's thread now.

[alock]

Greendubber said:

tossbag said:

Greendubber said:

tossbag said:

Greendubber said:

OnTheOverrun said:

alock said:

A quick Google search shows this discussion happening in many other places. Some have gone to the trouble of contacting tyre manufacturers for their views:

Goodyear said:

The BTMA is becoming increasingly concerned at the number of cars on British roads where the tyres fitted are too narrow for the wheel rim widths or conversely the wheel rims are too wide for the tyres. (Often referred to as the “Euro Look”) This trend is believed to be a fashion statement, but leads to courts a potentially very hazardous and serious risks into road safety.

Continental said:

In reply to your e-mail regarding the practice of fitting tyres to wide rims, we would strongly recomend against it. We have seen similar photographs of low profile tyres fitted to rims wider than the recomended rim fitment, and would go so far as to say that it's positively dangerous, because the tyre cannot flex as it would under normal conditions, and therefore cannot respond properly when cornering.

Nah. It's perfectly safe. Greendubber said so.

I actually said that we never had any issues and there were members of staff that were happy running them on their cars.

Means nothing. Having no problems was luck and the members of staff are idiots. Time will tell.

I dont care what you think it means, I have posted based on past experiences with stretched tyres.....dont let a bit of fact get in the way. You can choose how much notice to take of it, to be honest I'm not too fussed what you think of it.

As for calling them idiots you couldnt be further from the truth, however you can have your opinion on it.

OK, if you want an opinion, here is a true one from me.
My opinion is you have no professional experience in the field of tyres / tyre stretching even though you say you do. That is my opinion, my opinion in that you are a liar.
If you want a fact, here is a fact: Any product that is not used as it is designed to be used is not a good idea. If I filled an old lemonade bottle with bleach - bad idea. If I stretch tyres over rims - bad idea.
If you can prove to me that tyre stretching is not only recommended by tyre manufacturers, but also has been tested and proven to be safe by the relevant regulatory bodies then I will gladly retract these two statements:
1) You do not and have never worked in an environment that has relevant status to theoretically decide whether stretched tyres are or are not safe for use on the road.
2) Stretched tyres are not safe for the road in any circumstance.

Is that easy enough?

Edited by tossbag on Friday 4th September 02:20

Of course thats fine, but I'm not blagging you with regards to my previous career.

I said we never had any issues with people running stretch on tyres....but you feel free to keep on ranting about it if you want. I'm bored of you.

More details on your previous career might give people more reason to believe you.
What sample set did you use for your testing? How was the test controlled to be a fair comparison to properly fitted tyres?

I could believe that a small stretch that is well monitored (i.e. checking pressure and for defects at least once a week) is probably safer than a properly fitted tyre that is never checked (i.e. is probably at least 5psi under inflated after 5000 miles). However I do not understand why anyone would pay hundreds or thousands of pounds per year to insure a car that the insurers will probably void the cover of due to incorrectly fitted tyres.

[Greendubber]

alock said:

Greendubber said:

tossbag said:

Greendubber said:

tossbag said:

Greendubber said:

OnTheOverrun said:

alock said:

A quick Google search shows this discussion happening in many other places. Some have gone to the trouble of contacting tyre manufacturers for their views:

Goodyear said:

The BTMA is becoming increasingly concerned at the number of cars on British roads where the tyres fitted are too narrow for the wheel rim widths or conversely the wheel rims are too wide for the tyres. (Often referred to as the “Euro Look”) This trend is believed to be a fashion statement, but leads to courts a potentially very hazardous and serious risks into road safety.

Continental said:

In reply to your e-mail regarding the practice of fitting tyres to wide rims, we would strongly recomend against it. We have seen similar photographs of low profile tyres fitted to rims wider than the recomended rim fitment, and would go so far as to say that it's positively dangerous, because the tyre cannot flex as it would under normal conditions, and therefore cannot respond properly when cornering.

Nah. It's perfectly safe. Greendubber said so.

I actually said that we never had any issues and there were members of staff that were happy running them on their cars.

Means nothing. Having no problems was luck and the members of staff are idiots. Time will tell.

I dont care what you think it means, I have posted based on past experiences with stretched tyres.....dont let a bit of fact get in the way. You can choose how much notice to take of it, to be honest I'm not too fussed what you think of it.

As for calling them idiots you couldnt be further from the truth, however you can have your opinion on it.

OK, if you want an opinion, here is a true one from me.
My opinion is you have no professional experience in the field of tyres / tyre stretching even though you say you do. That is my opinion, my opinion in that you are a liar.
If you want a fact, here is a fact: Any product that is not used as it is designed to be used is not a good idea. If I filled an old lemonade bottle with bleach - bad idea. If I stretch tyres over rims - bad idea.
If you can prove to me that tyre stretching is not only recommended by tyre manufacturers, but also has been tested and proven to be safe by the relevant regulatory bodies then I will gladly retract these two statements:
1) You do not and have never worked in an environment that has relevant status to theoretically decide whether stretched tyres are or are not safe for use on the road.
2) Stretched tyres are not safe for the road in any circumstance.

Is that easy enough?

Edited by tossbag on Friday 4th September 02:20

Of course thats fine, but I'm not blagging you with regards to my previous career.

I said we never had any issues with people running stretch on tyres....but you feel free to keep on ranting about it if you want. I'm bored of you.

More details on your previous career might give people more reason to believe you.
What sample set did you use for your testing? How was the test controlled to be a fair comparison to properly fitted tyres?

I could believe that a small stretch that is well monitored (i.e. checking pressure and for defects at least once a week) is probably safer than a properly fitted tyre that is never checked (i.e. is probably at least 5psi under inflated after 5000 miles). However I do not understand why anyone would pay hundreds or thousands of pounds per year to insure a car that the insurers will probably void the cover of due to incorrectly fitted tyres.

Why should I spill my guts on here about my previous career?. I was an engineer for one of the largest tyre companies in the world, do I need to post pictures of me working at various races I was on or with pictures of cars we did work on?, or various pictures of me visiting people such as Honda, Nissan, Ford, Vauxhall etc?.

We never did ANY 'on the record' tests of our tyres, I said that we never had any issues with any of the cars our staff or some of our customers cars that were running stretch.

Jesus!. I'm out, I really cant be bothered justifying myself to you lot.

[Garlick]

[Brabus Jord]

Garlick said:

agree! lock it or clean it?

[OnTheOverrun]

Greendubber said:

OnTheOverrun said:

alock said:

A quick Google search shows this discussion happening in many other places. Some have gone to the trouble of contacting tyre manufacturers for their views:

Goodyear said:

The BTMA is becoming increasingly concerned at the number of cars on British roads where the tyres fitted are too narrow for the wheel rim widths or conversely the wheel rims are too wide for the tyres. (Often referred to as the “Euro Look”) This trend is believed to be a fashion statement, but leads to courts a potentially very hazardous and serious risks into road safety.

Continental said:

In reply to your e-mail regarding the practice of fitting tyres to wide rims, we would strongly recomend against it. We have seen similar photographs of low profile tyres fitted to rims wider than the recomended rim fitment, and would go so far as to say that it's positively dangerous, because the tyre cannot flex as it would under normal conditions, and therefore cannot respond properly when cornering.

Nah. It's perfectly safe. Greendubber said so.

I actually said that we never had any issues and there were members of staff that were happy running them on their cars.

You actually said you were a senior engineer for a major tyre company. With that in mind I find it hard to believe you would take your positive approach to stretched tyres unless you were completely happy that they were perfectly safe.

Do you, as a senior engineer for a major tyre company, consider tyres fitted to rims wider than those recommended as safe by your major tyre company as the maximum width for a given tyre size, to be perfectly safe as is evident in your posts?

[jimmyb]

Garlick said:

oi no sleeping get orf your arse and start looking for that weekend job you layabout

[Simond001]

Garlick said:

That proves that Garlick doesnt appreciate the history of PH.

He'd never fall asleep in a TVR!



(btw. Euro look Golfs.....trying way to hard to impress themselves. get a life)

[skylinecrazy]

Simond001 said:

Garlick said:

(btw. Euro look Golfs.....trying way to hard to impress themselves. get a life)

That makes no sense at all.......

[Greendubber]

OnTheOverrun said:

Greendubber said:

OnTheOverrun said:

alock said:

A quick Google search shows this discussion happening in many other places. Some have gone to the trouble of contacting tyre manufacturers for their views:

Goodyear said:

The BTMA is becoming increasingly concerned at the number of cars on British roads where the tyres fitted are too narrow for the wheel rim widths or conversely the wheel rims are too wide for the tyres. (Often referred to as the “Euro Look”) This trend is believed to be a fashion statement, but leads to courts a potentially very hazardous and serious risks into road safety.

Continental said:

In reply to your e-mail regarding the practice of fitting tyres to wide rims, we would strongly recomend against it. We have seen similar photographs of low profile tyres fitted to rims wider than the recomended rim fitment, and would go so far as to say that it's positively dangerous, because the tyre cannot flex as it would under normal conditions, and therefore cannot respond properly when cornering.

Nah. It's perfectly safe. Greendubber said so.

I actually said that we never had any issues and there were members of staff that were happy running them on their cars.

You actually said you were a senior engineer for a major tyre company. With that in mind I find it hard to believe you would take your positive approach to stretched tyres unless you were completely happy that they were perfectly safe.

Do you, as a senior engineer for a major tyre company, consider tyres fitted to rims wider than those recommended as safe by your major tyre company as the maximum width for a given tyre size, to be perfectly safe as is evident in your posts?

Oh yawn..

Go and read the thread, I didnt say I was a senior engineer, I said I used to be an engineer and one of our senior engineers had stretched tyres on his car with no issues.

and once again....yawn.

[OnTheOverrun]

Greendubber said:

OnTheOverrun said:

Greendubber said:

OnTheOverrun said:

alock said:

A quick Google search shows this discussion happening in many other places. Some have gone to the trouble of contacting tyre manufacturers for their views:

Goodyear said:

The BTMA is becoming increasingly concerned at the number of cars on British roads where the tyres fitted are too narrow for the wheel rim widths or conversely the wheel rims are too wide for the tyres. (Often referred to as the “Euro Look”) This trend is believed to be a fashion statement, but leads to courts a potentially very hazardous and serious risks into road safety.

Continental said:

In reply to your e-mail regarding the practice of fitting tyres to wide rims, we would strongly recomend against it. We have seen similar photographs of low profile tyres fitted to rims wider than the recomended rim fitment, and would go so far as to say that it's positively dangerous, because the tyre cannot flex as it would under normal conditions, and therefore cannot respond properly when cornering.

Nah. It's perfectly safe. Greendubber said so.

I actually said that we never had any issues and there were members of staff that were happy running them on their cars.

You actually said you were a senior engineer for a major tyre company. With that in mind I find it hard to believe you would take your positive approach to stretched tyres unless you were completely happy that they were perfectly safe.

Do you, as a senior engineer for a major tyre company, consider tyres fitted to rims wider than those recommended as safe by your major tyre company as the maximum width for a given tyre size, to be perfectly safe as is evident in your posts?

Oh yawn..

Go and read the thread, I didnt say I was a senior engineer, I said I used to be an engineer and one of our senior engineers had stretched tyres on his car with no issues.

and once again....yawn.

Yes, you said "Speaking as an ex egineer for one of the largest tyre companies in the world".

So as an ex engineer for a major tyre company, you are happy to recommend that members of the public ignore the maximum tyre width/rim sizes that your ex tyre company recommends are you? I think I can see why you're an 'ex' now.

And as for all the yawning, yes your BS, back-pedalling and general evasiveness is pretty tiring to read.

[Greendubber]

OnTheOverrun said:

Greendubber said:

OnTheOverrun said:

Greendubber said:

OnTheOverrun said:

alock said:

A quick Google search shows this discussion happening in many other places. Some have gone to the trouble of contacting tyre manufacturers for their views:

Goodyear said:

The BTMA is becoming increasingly concerned at the number of cars on British roads where the tyres fitted are too narrow for the wheel rim widths or conversely the wheel rims are too wide for the tyres. (Often referred to as the “Euro Look”) This trend is believed to be a fashion statement, but leads to courts a potentially very hazardous and serious risks into road safety.

Continental said:

In reply to your e-mail regarding the practice of fitting tyres to wide rims, we would strongly recomend against it. We have seen similar photographs of low profile tyres fitted to rims wider than the recomended rim fitment, and would go so far as to say that it's positively dangerous, because the tyre cannot flex as it would under normal conditions, and therefore cannot respond properly when cornering.

Nah. It's perfectly safe. Greendubber said so.

I actually said that we never had any issues and there were members of staff that were happy running them on their cars.

You actually said you were a senior engineer for a major tyre company. With that in mind I find it hard to believe you would take your positive approach to stretched tyres unless you were completely happy that they were perfectly safe.

Do you, as a senior engineer for a major tyre company, consider tyres fitted to rims wider than those recommended as safe by your major tyre company as the maximum width for a given tyre size, to be perfectly safe as is evident in your posts?

Oh yawn..

Go and read the thread, I didnt say I was a senior engineer, I said I used to be an engineer and one of our senior engineers had stretched tyres on his car with no issues.

and once again....yawn.

Yes, you said "Speaking as an ex egineer for one of the largest tyre companies in the world".

So as an ex engineer for a major tyre company, you are happy to recommend that members of the public ignore the maximum tyre width/rim sizes that your ex tyre company recommends are you? I think I can see why you're an 'ex' now.

And as for all the yawning, yes your BS, back-pedalling and general evasiveness is pretty tiring to read.

[OnTheOverrun]

Greendubber said:

OnTheOverrun said:

Greendubber said:

OnTheOverrun said:

Greendubber said:

OnTheOverrun said:

alock said:

A quick Google search shows this discussion happening in many other places. Some have gone to the trouble of contacting tyre manufacturers for their views:

Goodyear said:

The BTMA is becoming increasingly concerned at the number of cars on British roads where the tyres fitted are too narrow for the wheel rim widths or conversely the wheel rims are too wide for the tyres. (Often referred to as the “Euro Look”) This trend is believed to be a fashion statement, but leads to courts a potentially very hazardous and serious risks into road safety.

Continental said:

In reply to your e-mail regarding the practice of fitting tyres to wide rims, we would strongly recomend against it. We have seen similar photographs of low profile tyres fitted to rims wider than the recomended rim fitment, and would go so far as to say that it's positively dangerous, because the tyre cannot flex as it would under normal conditions, and therefore cannot respond properly when cornering.

Nah. It's perfectly safe. Greendubber said so.

I actually said that we never had any issues and there were members of staff that were happy running them on their cars.

You actually said you were a senior engineer for a major tyre company. With that in mind I find it hard to believe you would take your positive approach to stretched tyres unless you were completely happy that they were perfectly safe.

Do you, as a senior engineer for a major tyre company, consider tyres fitted to rims wider than those recommended as safe by your major tyre company as the maximum width for a given tyre size, to be perfectly safe as is evident in your posts?

Oh yawn..

Go and read the thread, I didnt say I was a senior engineer, I said I used to be an engineer and one of our senior engineers had stretched tyres on his car with no issues.

and once again....yawn.

Yes, you said "Speaking as an ex egineer for one of the largest tyre companies in the world".

So as an ex engineer for a major tyre company, you are happy to recommend that members of the public ignore the maximum tyre width/rim sizes that your ex tyre company recommends are you? I think I can see why you're an 'ex' now.

And as for all the yawning, yes your BS, back-pedalling and general evasiveness is pretty tiring to read.

Yeah, it made me laugh when I re-read your posts as well, but how about an answer to the questions?

[Greendubber]

OnTheOverrun said:

Greendubber said:

OnTheOverrun said:

Greendubber said:

OnTheOverrun said:

Greendubber said:

OnTheOverrun said:

alock said:

A quick Google search shows this discussion happening in many other places. Some have gone to the trouble of contacting tyre manufacturers for their views:

Goodyear said:

The BTMA is becoming increasingly concerned at the number of cars on British roads where the tyres fitted are too narrow for the wheel rim widths or conversely the wheel rims are too wide for the tyres. (Often referred to as the “Euro Look”) This trend is believed to be a fashion statement, but leads to courts a potentially very hazardous and serious risks into road safety.

Continental said:

In reply to your e-mail regarding the practice of fitting tyres to wide rims, we would strongly recomend against it. We have seen similar photographs of low profile tyres fitted to rims wider than the recomended rim fitment, and would go so far as to say that it's positively dangerous, because the tyre cannot flex as it would under normal conditions, and therefore cannot respond properly when cornering.

Nah. It's perfectly safe. Greendubber said so.

I actually said that we never had any issues and there were members of staff that were happy running them on their cars.

You actually said you were a senior engineer for a major tyre company. With that in mind I find it hard to believe you would take your positive approach to stretched tyres unless you were completely happy that they were perfectly safe.

Do you, as a senior engineer for a major tyre company, consider tyres fitted to rims wider than those recommended as safe by your major tyre company as the maximum width for a given tyre size, to be perfectly safe as is evident in your posts?

Oh yawn..

Go and read the thread, I didnt say I was a senior engineer, I said I used to be an engineer and one of our senior engineers had stretched tyres on his car with no issues.

and once again....yawn.

Yes, you said "Speaking as an ex egineer for one of the largest tyre companies in the world".

So as an ex engineer for a major tyre company, you are happy to recommend that members of the public ignore the maximum tyre width/rim sizes that your ex tyre company recommends are you? I think I can see why you're an 'ex' now.

And as for all the yawning, yes your BS, back-pedalling and general evasiveness is pretty tiring to read.

Yeah, it made me laugh when I re-read your posts as well, but how about an answer to the questions?

I've not been 'back-pedalling' at all by the way.

All I said was that I am an ex tyre engineer for a large tyre company. FYI I left about 6 years ago as a career change. As for the safety side of it, and as I have already said there were never any 'official' tests that we did. All I said was that there were a few members of staff that ran cars with stretch and also one of the senior engineers ran a car with stretch that he used to track and never had any issues with it.

I have based my opinion on my experience, there were never any issues with the cars I saw. Plenty of people run stretch with no issues at all. I do agree that there is a level of common sense that has to be kept to though. The stretch on the Golf in this thread is about the same as I had experience of and there were never any issues with those cars.

As for ignoring the recommendations then yes, people can ignore them within reason. People ignore them with regards to pressures all the time for various reasons and vehicle fitments.
I know that S2000 owners used to fit 'N type' tyres on their cars, they were designed for Porsche fitment but people fitted them on other cars... we would recommend they were specific fitment but were happy let people fit them.

This really is the last I have to say on it now as I feel the O/P's thread has been ruined by people asking me to justify my existance and my previous career!.

[OnTheOverrun]

Greendubber said:

OnTheOverrun said:

Greendubber said:

OnTheOverrun said:

Greendubber said:

OnTheOverrun said:

Greendubber said:

OnTheOverrun said:

alock said:

A quick Google search shows this discussion happening in many other places. Some have gone to the trouble of contacting tyre manufacturers for their views:

Goodyear said:

The BTMA is becoming increasingly concerned at the number of cars on British roads where the tyres fitted are too narrow for the wheel rim widths or conversely the wheel rims are too wide for the tyres. (Often referred to as the “Euro Look”) This trend is believed to be a fashion statement, but leads to courts a potentially very hazardous and serious risks into road safety.

Continental said:

In reply to your e-mail regarding the practice of fitting tyres to wide rims, we would strongly recomend against it. We have seen similar photographs of low profile tyres fitted to rims wider than the recomended rim fitment, and would go so far as to say that it's positively dangerous, because the tyre cannot flex as it would under normal conditions, and therefore cannot respond properly when cornering.

Nah. It's perfectly safe. Greendubber said so.

I actually said that we never had any issues and there were members of staff that were happy running them on their cars.

You actually said you were a senior engineer for a major tyre company. With that in mind I find it hard to believe you would take your positive approach to stretched tyres unless you were completely happy that they were perfectly safe.

Do you, as a senior engineer for a major tyre company, consider tyres fitted to rims wider than those recommended as safe by your major tyre company as the maximum width for a given tyre size, to be perfectly safe as is evident in your posts?

Oh yawn..

Go and read the thread, I didnt say I was a senior engineer, I said I used to be an engineer and one of our senior engineers had stretched tyres on his car with no issues.

and once again....yawn.

Yes, you said "Speaking as an ex egineer for one of the largest tyre companies in the world".

So as an ex engineer for a major tyre company, you are happy to recommend that members of the public ignore the maximum tyre width/rim sizes that your ex tyre company recommends are you? I think I can see why you're an 'ex' now.

And as for all the yawning, yes your BS, back-pedalling and general evasiveness is pretty tiring to read.

Yeah, it made me laugh when I re-read your posts as well, but how about an answer to the questions?

I've not been 'back-pedalling' at all by the way.

All I said was that I am an ex tyre engineer for a large tyre company. FYI I left about 6 years ago as a career change. As for the safety side of it, and as I have already said there were never any 'official' tests that we did. All I said was that there were a few members of staff that ran cars with stretch and also one of the senior engineers ran a car with stretch that he used to track and never had any issues with it.

I have based my opinion on my experience, there were never any issues with the cars I saw. Plenty of people run stretch with no issues at all. I do agree that there is a level of common sense that has to be kept to though. The stretch on the Golf in this thread is about the same as I had experience of and there were never any issues with those cars.

As for ignoring the recommendations then yes, people can ignore them within reason. People ignore them with regards to pressures all the time for various reasons and vehicle fitments.
I know that S2000 owners used to fit 'N type' tyres on their cars, they were designed for Porsche fitment but people fitted them on other cars... we would recommend they were specific fitment but were happy let people fit them.

This really is the last I have to say on it now as I feel the O/P's thread has been ruined by people asking me to justify my existance and my previous career!.

I didn't expect you to run tests on stretched tyres to be honest. Why would a company bother to run tests outside their safe fitment recommendations? I didn't expect anyone to approach you with 'issues' either as fitting tyres outside the range suitable for the rim is likely to render their insurance invalid if they have a crash, so if they did have an issue, why would they tell you?

What I did expect you to do as an engineer for a tyre company, is not assume because no-one had told you about any problems, there were none. You're the first engineer I have ever conversed with who works on the principle, 'If I haven't seen a problem, there can't be any.' To compare stretched tyres to incorrect pressures or manufacturer-specific types is laughable.

Now stretched tyres may possibly be safe up to a certain level of stretch, but even if they are, I doubt the cars involved are actually insured. Changes of wheel and tyre are notifiable to insurance companies and I very much doubt anyone who puts fashion before safety is likely to ring up their insurance company and say 'Hi, I've just fitted new rims and tyres, thought I'd let you know. Oh, and by the way, the tyres are significantly narrower than the minimum size the rim manufacturers says is safe. That'll be OK won't it?'

Then all the people like me and probably you, who are honest with their insurance, pick up the tab when it goes wrong.

[Greendubber]

As i said i can only base my opinion on what i saw.

As for the insurance issue, yes i would imagine they would be interested in it but as to what they would do i dont know.

I know when i changed the wheels on my car i had to tell them. Perhaps someone running stretch can ask their insurance company what they think of it?

[streetshine]

surely the only reasonable thing to do BEFORE fitting stretched tires is to phone your insurance company, ask them what their position is on stretch in regards to accidents, and if they say its fine, and you want it, then do it. If not, then don't. I dont agree or disagree with stretched tires, each to their own and all that, but having a hissy fit at each other about it is getting a bit out of hand now. Give it a rest guys, you could go on for years, chill out and enjoy the wonders of motoring.