Smart Roadster shed
Discussion
Interesting responses - good to see all the positive experiences.
I think expectations are possibly a little different depending on price, but I've not got any issues with build quality. It's a cheap and cheerful car, I was never hoping for any sort of luxury experience, so few surprises so far.
Previous Cooper S cost 4-5 times what I paid for Smart, and that really was a car that seemed to get steadily worse as it inched towards and over 100k miles - is the only car I've ever part ex'd as I just didn't want to keep it, kept throwing up massive bills and parts seemed disproportionately expensive.
RE parts for the Roadster, I've not found them to be that bad, but guess it depends what breaks. TBH, if something like the SAM goes I'll get a second hand unit and fit it myself, so hardly a massive bill in the grand scheme of things. You can get an entire engine rebuild for little over a grand, and I can't see much else on the car that costs big money.
In the meantime I've saved over £500 in tax and insurance over my Lexus over 12 months, both needed a full set of tyres and again was about £200 less on the Smart, I'm averaging twice the MPG over 12,000 miles (for whatever that saves me), so even if it does throw up a massive bill I still won't be out of pocket compared to a full sized car.
Some bits are incredibly cheap (the use of bowden cables for anything and everything that moves, for example), and feel it when you touch them, but then again you can replace for pennies so who cares. Love the fact it's made out of plastic, the exterior has worn incredibly well for something with so many miles and previous lack of love. There are lots of bits that seem to be held on with a single screw or gravity, but then again add lightness and all that malarky - plus it's easier to drill out if something seizes!
RE rust on the mechanical bits, doesn't seem any worse than my IS 250 - a car lots of people would probably associate with quality and that had a sticker price that was double the Roadster, and a car that also threw a wobbly with some expensive bills.
I dunno. I guess I'd be pissed off with SAM issues or errant windscreen wipers or leaks if I'd paid £8k for a mint Coupe or had a lot of issues when bought brand new, but I have a shed so guess I have a different outlook. Plus came from Lotus background, where again I guess it's different if you've always owned barges and expect a premium experience. We shall see. Has been pretty good over 13 months I've had it, I'll weigh up the costs of anything that breaks when it breaks and either get second hand bits or DIY if it's too absurdly expensive, but I haven't seen much so far that's looked too pricey. The new dampers were a fraction of the cost of dampers on my Lexus or Elise, for example.
Just love the fact you can really throw it along a b-road, it sticks and sticks, and there's always space to move over more if some idiot comes round a bend on your side of the road, really appreciate how narrow it is. Gearbox for me is biggest PITA for occasional moments where I want to pull off quickly, but TBH they're few and far between.
Just nice to see the stories of people who've had for ages or are remembering experiences.
I think expectations are possibly a little different depending on price, but I've not got any issues with build quality. It's a cheap and cheerful car, I was never hoping for any sort of luxury experience, so few surprises so far.
Previous Cooper S cost 4-5 times what I paid for Smart, and that really was a car that seemed to get steadily worse as it inched towards and over 100k miles - is the only car I've ever part ex'd as I just didn't want to keep it, kept throwing up massive bills and parts seemed disproportionately expensive.
RE parts for the Roadster, I've not found them to be that bad, but guess it depends what breaks. TBH, if something like the SAM goes I'll get a second hand unit and fit it myself, so hardly a massive bill in the grand scheme of things. You can get an entire engine rebuild for little over a grand, and I can't see much else on the car that costs big money.
In the meantime I've saved over £500 in tax and insurance over my Lexus over 12 months, both needed a full set of tyres and again was about £200 less on the Smart, I'm averaging twice the MPG over 12,000 miles (for whatever that saves me), so even if it does throw up a massive bill I still won't be out of pocket compared to a full sized car.
Some bits are incredibly cheap (the use of bowden cables for anything and everything that moves, for example), and feel it when you touch them, but then again you can replace for pennies so who cares. Love the fact it's made out of plastic, the exterior has worn incredibly well for something with so many miles and previous lack of love. There are lots of bits that seem to be held on with a single screw or gravity, but then again add lightness and all that malarky - plus it's easier to drill out if something seizes!
RE rust on the mechanical bits, doesn't seem any worse than my IS 250 - a car lots of people would probably associate with quality and that had a sticker price that was double the Roadster, and a car that also threw a wobbly with some expensive bills.
I dunno. I guess I'd be pissed off with SAM issues or errant windscreen wipers or leaks if I'd paid £8k for a mint Coupe or had a lot of issues when bought brand new, but I have a shed so guess I have a different outlook. Plus came from Lotus background, where again I guess it's different if you've always owned barges and expect a premium experience. We shall see. Has been pretty good over 13 months I've had it, I'll weigh up the costs of anything that breaks when it breaks and either get second hand bits or DIY if it's too absurdly expensive, but I haven't seen much so far that's looked too pricey. The new dampers were a fraction of the cost of dampers on my Lexus or Elise, for example.
Just love the fact you can really throw it along a b-road, it sticks and sticks, and there's always space to move over more if some idiot comes round a bend on your side of the road, really appreciate how narrow it is. Gearbox for me is biggest PITA for occasional moments where I want to pull off quickly, but TBH they're few and far between.
Just nice to see the stories of people who've had for ages or are remembering experiences.
Edited by pthelazyjourno on Monday 23 April 17:27
lostkiwi said:
Had mine near 5 years now and I'm the second owner.
In that time the mileage has gone from 80k to 145k. It's had a crank sensor, clutch and clutch drive plate (if you ever change a clutch always do the drive plate), clutch actuator, wiper motor, water pump, intercooler and a few thermostats.
Mines mapped to 102bhp (was done at 90k) and to be honest I don't think I'd go higher without paying the bottom end some attention.
Anyone who wants to know what the difference is between Brabus and non Brabus engine wise it's surprisingly little:
Camshaft
Turbo
Exhaust valves
Injectors
ECU
Charge cooler as opposed to intercooler and that's it.
In the 65k miles I've covered the Roadster has been to Chamonix, Narbonne, Bordeaux, Limoges on successive years, a separate trip to each. The Narbonne trip was done with a cracked clutch drive plate (we weren't aware of it - just a slightly odd noise) and it did the 1200 miles with no real complaint. Each trip was two up for two weeks with 3 suitcases inside (mines a coupe).
On motorways they can be tiresome (but we just brought it back from France weeks ago after wintering it in our barns near Bordeaux). 500 miles and really not too much of an issue - 85mph virtually all the way and 48mpg. Generally though we avoid motorways and cruise the D roads.
It needs it's third set of rear tyres now (fronts are still the one I bought the car with and will probably outlast the rest of the car!).
Paddles are a must have on these in my view. Makes it that bit easier to anticipate the gear changes. The gearbox really isn't as bad as folks make out.
You can push these little cars through corners at silly speeds and point to point on a twisty B road there's little can touch them for pace and smile factor. It was great fun in the Alps and Pyrenees! Steering is power assisted up to around 20mph (electric assistance) and weights up nicely at speed though it is slightly undergeared.
With advancing age we now tend to use our SL Mercedes for these trips and whilst there is no denying the continent crushing touring ability of the V8 SLs there is nowhere near the fun factor on a twisty road.
Its soon to have a timing chain (first one) and new canvas (£300) .
At the moment no immediate plans to replace it but a career change may force my hand. At that time it will probably end up permanently in France as a fun car for holiday use.
Oh, and mine has no leaks!
Would I have another? Absolutely.
Where did you get the remap done? I'd like to get mine done, but lots of companies seem to have disappeared over the years and would like to get something with emphasis on driveability rather than outright power figures. Seen some quoting 115bhp but would prefer to aim for somewhere round about 100bhp mark. In that time the mileage has gone from 80k to 145k. It's had a crank sensor, clutch and clutch drive plate (if you ever change a clutch always do the drive plate), clutch actuator, wiper motor, water pump, intercooler and a few thermostats.
Mines mapped to 102bhp (was done at 90k) and to be honest I don't think I'd go higher without paying the bottom end some attention.
Anyone who wants to know what the difference is between Brabus and non Brabus engine wise it's surprisingly little:
Camshaft
Turbo
Exhaust valves
Injectors
ECU
Charge cooler as opposed to intercooler and that's it.
In the 65k miles I've covered the Roadster has been to Chamonix, Narbonne, Bordeaux, Limoges on successive years, a separate trip to each. The Narbonne trip was done with a cracked clutch drive plate (we weren't aware of it - just a slightly odd noise) and it did the 1200 miles with no real complaint. Each trip was two up for two weeks with 3 suitcases inside (mines a coupe).
On motorways they can be tiresome (but we just brought it back from France weeks ago after wintering it in our barns near Bordeaux). 500 miles and really not too much of an issue - 85mph virtually all the way and 48mpg. Generally though we avoid motorways and cruise the D roads.
It needs it's third set of rear tyres now (fronts are still the one I bought the car with and will probably outlast the rest of the car!).
Paddles are a must have on these in my view. Makes it that bit easier to anticipate the gear changes. The gearbox really isn't as bad as folks make out.
You can push these little cars through corners at silly speeds and point to point on a twisty B road there's little can touch them for pace and smile factor. It was great fun in the Alps and Pyrenees! Steering is power assisted up to around 20mph (electric assistance) and weights up nicely at speed though it is slightly undergeared.
With advancing age we now tend to use our SL Mercedes for these trips and whilst there is no denying the continent crushing touring ability of the V8 SLs there is nowhere near the fun factor on a twisty road.
Its soon to have a timing chain (first one) and new canvas (£300) .
At the moment no immediate plans to replace it but a career change may force my hand. At that time it will probably end up permanently in France as a fun car for holiday use.
Oh, and mine has no leaks!
Would I have another? Absolutely.
Edited by lostkiwi on Sunday 22 April 21:57
lostkiwi said:
Exactly who I was going to suggest.
My map is a BIG Performance map but in hindsight I'd probably go with Tony if I were to do it again. Nothing wrong with the BIG one but as I understand it Tony does a live remap on the Dyno whereas Ian just applies the map file to your ECU.
Changing the steering wheel can make them feel nicer to drive too - there are two main options:
The full V6 wheel (at over £1000) which just plugs and plays
The 451 Brabus wheel which needs some modification work but is less than half the price.
The V6 wheel is also very small and obstructs gauges whereas the 451 wheel is a halfway step meaning you get a slightly smaller wheel but with a much thicker rim that still allows you to see the gauges.
This is a custom Brabus 451 wheel bought on eBay for £320 with alcantara cover and carbon effect centre. Oh and the 451 paddles are far more positive than the roadster ones.
Excellent, thanks chaps, will give Tony a bell after I get the MOT for my ForTwo sorted. I saw a lot of things disappeared off BIG's website, got the impression it was a thing of the past. My map is a BIG Performance map but in hindsight I'd probably go with Tony if I were to do it again. Nothing wrong with the BIG one but as I understand it Tony does a live remap on the Dyno whereas Ian just applies the map file to your ECU.
Changing the steering wheel can make them feel nicer to drive too - there are two main options:
The full V6 wheel (at over £1000) which just plugs and plays
The 451 Brabus wheel which needs some modification work but is less than half the price.
The V6 wheel is also very small and obstructs gauges whereas the 451 wheel is a halfway step meaning you get a slightly smaller wheel but with a much thicker rim that still allows you to see the gauges.
This is a custom Brabus 451 wheel bought on eBay for £320 with alcantara cover and carbon effect centre. Oh and the 451 paddles are far more positive than the roadster ones.
Edited by lostkiwi on Tuesday 24th April 13:19
Edited by lostkiwi on Tuesday 24th April 13:20
Steering wheel looks ace - what sort of modifications are required?
Mr2Mike said:
They most certainly do rust. I bought a scrapper for the body panels and the rear axle to repair my wife's Roadster after it was written off due a cretin swerving across the the road and scraping down the side of it. The rear axle on the scrapper was rusty, but salvageable after sand blasting and epoxy coating, though I had to drill holes and fit rivnuts to hold the brake pipe clips as the original studs had rusted away to nothing.
The tridion underneath the car was utterly rotten, I poked a screwdriver through it in a number of places. Even on my wife's car there was a fair bit of surface rust showing underneath so I applied numerous coats of Dynax UB when I swapped the body panels and rear axle over.
My ForTwo had the classic rust areas as well, holed on both sides from the wheel arch into the backs of the sills which I had to weld up (and injected Dynax into the sills afterwards). Most people don't realise as it's hidden behind the arch liner, so the majority of older ForTwos will be rusty in this area.
That said they are such fun to drive that I'm quite happy to work on them to keep them in good condition.
I wonder if it's the plastic body panels that make things seem worse - with a traditional car you can spot a rusty dog a mile off, whereas most Smarts tend to look reasonable irrespective of condition. There are always plenty of parts that can and will rust whatever you buy though. The tridion underneath the car was utterly rotten, I poked a screwdriver through it in a number of places. Even on my wife's car there was a fair bit of surface rust showing underneath so I applied numerous coats of Dynax UB when I swapped the body panels and rear axle over.
My ForTwo had the classic rust areas as well, holed on both sides from the wheel arch into the backs of the sills which I had to weld up (and injected Dynax into the sills afterwards). Most people don't realise as it's hidden behind the arch liner, so the majority of older ForTwos will be rusty in this area.
That said they are such fun to drive that I'm quite happy to work on them to keep them in good condition.
jakesmith said:
Bit late to this thread but I bought a Brabus Roadster in October 17 having wanted one for ages, as a 3rd car (have an Evoque and
a Granturismo too), and sold it in December that year (for what I paid). It was remapped and about a year before I bought it had about £2.5k spent on it and then another £1k in the 10 weeks I had it getting it perfect mechanically - new shocks, springs, brakes, tyres, crank sensor etc etc etc.
Fun little car but really terrible interior, does not feel safe at speed, ridiculously noisy above 65MPH, proper faff to properly open the roof so not a quick 'drive and go' roadster, very little storage space inside & in boot. Handling is great and on good tyres probably quicker entry speed round some corners than the Porsche I replaced it with. Got more positive comments from public than any of my other cars (997, Maserati Granturismo etc).
I would not have another, it is fine for plipping around on local journeys of a few miles but anything longer than 30 mins became tiresome very quickly. It launches incredibly slowly like a go kart in fact and can't beat anything off the lights. You also get absolutely zero respect from other motorists on the roads despite being nippy once moving
Replaced it with a 987 Boxster S which is, surprisingly, a lot better in every way (!) and has even cost less to maintain so far
Fair comments. That said, I've done about 60,000 miles in an S1 Elise, so my frame of reference for comfort, interior noise and a roof that is easy to remove is probably the polar opposite from yours!! a Granturismo too), and sold it in December that year (for what I paid). It was remapped and about a year before I bought it had about £2.5k spent on it and then another £1k in the 10 weeks I had it getting it perfect mechanically - new shocks, springs, brakes, tyres, crank sensor etc etc etc.
Fun little car but really terrible interior, does not feel safe at speed, ridiculously noisy above 65MPH, proper faff to properly open the roof so not a quick 'drive and go' roadster, very little storage space inside & in boot. Handling is great and on good tyres probably quicker entry speed round some corners than the Porsche I replaced it with. Got more positive comments from public than any of my other cars (997, Maserati Granturismo etc).
I would not have another, it is fine for plipping around on local journeys of a few miles but anything longer than 30 mins became tiresome very quickly. It launches incredibly slowly like a go kart in fact and can't beat anything off the lights. You also get absolutely zero respect from other motorists on the roads despite being nippy once moving
Replaced it with a 987 Boxster S which is, surprisingly, a lot better in every way (!) and has even cost less to maintain so far
Disagree on feeling safe at speed, mind you. Mine feels perfectly stable and happy at 80 (if you can put up with the wind noise), although it is generally just used for potting around and b-road fun.
Enjoy the Boxster, lovely cars. Certainly a world away for quality, handling finesse, speed and ease of use. Never quite match the Smart for quirkiness though, and a lot more likely to be traveling at huge speeds if you thrash it in higher gears!
Thought I'd revisit this, as been a few years. Sold the Roadster, as needed something to carry bikes. Bought a Fiesta, and then a C-Max.
Mid-life crisis lasted two years, then I realised that I've completely stopped driving for the fun of it, don't really like cars anymore, and had no project.
Being the last one of these notoriously unreliable cars ran for 30k miles without ever letting me down, and selling for the same price I bought it for, decided I really wanted another. Will try and keep this one.
Bought for shed money, needed a few things doing, but is largely sound. Had a new engine 30k miles ago with an invoice for 5x the cost of the car, so hopefully we can avoid the engine detonating in future!
Have got a few plans in the making, would like to replace the turbo and exhaust manifold at some point, having a new roof fitted at the end of this month, so will update the thread as I go for anyone who cares. Good to be back in something fun, has given me a project for lockdown 2.0.
Mid-life crisis lasted two years, then I realised that I've completely stopped driving for the fun of it, don't really like cars anymore, and had no project.
Being the last one of these notoriously unreliable cars ran for 30k miles without ever letting me down, and selling for the same price I bought it for, decided I really wanted another. Will try and keep this one.
Bought for shed money, needed a few things doing, but is largely sound. Had a new engine 30k miles ago with an invoice for 5x the cost of the car, so hopefully we can avoid the engine detonating in future!
Have got a few plans in the making, would like to replace the turbo and exhaust manifold at some point, having a new roof fitted at the end of this month, so will update the thread as I go for anyone who cares. Good to be back in something fun, has given me a project for lockdown 2.0.
So thought I'd update this for new year's.
When I bought my second Roadie it felt like it had about 40bhp, wasn't boosting but otherwise drove well. I presumed air was escaping somewhere as turbo was running at about 0.5 bar max.
Had a nosy around under the car, and the arm operating the wastegate had fallen off (centre), £2 clip to fix it on again. Back to 80 or so bhp again, and Honda Jazz worrying levels of acceleration. Happy days.
The interior was pretty horrible place to be - smelled very strongly of cigarettes, hadn't been cleaned in a while and things like the steering wheel and gear knob were pretty rank.
So bought a few new bits - some rubber mats, a gear knob and a steering wheel.
Took some faffing to fit the wheel, and still need to make a few tweaks, but otherwise it's a much nicer place to be, especially now it's aired and doesn't stink of cigarettes.
Generally just trying to tidy it up a bit, so things like the mirrors were previously bodged with silicone and self-tapping screws.
Not sure why as still leaked like a sieve and looked horrendous. It hasn't stopped raining since I've bought the car, so I just went over it all with black silicone for now so it looks a bit neater, will tidy it up properly in the summer.
If nothing else, it now doesn't leak from that particular area.
The roof was another low point, and as with most it had shrunk slightly, looked crap and was 15 years old, so decided to replace.
Think I'm at about £1900 including cost of car, which seems pretty reasonable considering. Still need to change the starter motor at some point, and also looking at replacing the turbo, but hoping it'll treat me as well as the black Roadster it replaces, already a couple of thousand miles down and forgotten how much I love these little cars. Flawed but like nothing else.
When I bought my second Roadie it felt like it had about 40bhp, wasn't boosting but otherwise drove well. I presumed air was escaping somewhere as turbo was running at about 0.5 bar max.
Had a nosy around under the car, and the arm operating the wastegate had fallen off (centre), £2 clip to fix it on again. Back to 80 or so bhp again, and Honda Jazz worrying levels of acceleration. Happy days.
The interior was pretty horrible place to be - smelled very strongly of cigarettes, hadn't been cleaned in a while and things like the steering wheel and gear knob were pretty rank.
So bought a few new bits - some rubber mats, a gear knob and a steering wheel.
Took some faffing to fit the wheel, and still need to make a few tweaks, but otherwise it's a much nicer place to be, especially now it's aired and doesn't stink of cigarettes.
Generally just trying to tidy it up a bit, so things like the mirrors were previously bodged with silicone and self-tapping screws.
Not sure why as still leaked like a sieve and looked horrendous. It hasn't stopped raining since I've bought the car, so I just went over it all with black silicone for now so it looks a bit neater, will tidy it up properly in the summer.
If nothing else, it now doesn't leak from that particular area.
The roof was another low point, and as with most it had shrunk slightly, looked crap and was 15 years old, so decided to replace.
Think I'm at about £1900 including cost of car, which seems pretty reasonable considering. Still need to change the starter motor at some point, and also looking at replacing the turbo, but hoping it'll treat me as well as the black Roadster it replaces, already a couple of thousand miles down and forgotten how much I love these little cars. Flawed but like nothing else.
Edited by pthelazyjourno on Thursday 31st December 19:23
Aaand it's dead, for anybody who cares. Starter motor has died. Looks like some effort to change. At least it's stuck on my drive and not at the supermarket, worse times to happen than a national lockdown.
3k miles covered, just waiting for some bits to replace the starter motor, then will hopefully get it going again. Sure there is a lesson here about replacing parts when I know they're knackered before they ultimately fail!
3k miles covered, just waiting for some bits to replace the starter motor, then will hopefully get it going again. Sure there is a lesson here about replacing parts when I know they're knackered before they ultimately fail!
jakesmith said:
Sorry if I missed it but Evilution covers waterproofing the roadster well. The wing mirror is a classic source of leaks.
I believe the Brabus electrically adjustable part doesn’t suffer as badly
Yes joined Evilution back when I had the black one, invaluable source and wouldn't want to be without it. I had a shower cover for both cars, the grey one also leaked like a sieve when I bought it, the replacement roof has eliminated all of the roof leaks as far as I can tell. I believe the Brabus electrically adjustable part doesn’t suffer as badly
Still an occasional trickle around the passenger mirror every now and again, silicone around the outer and inner part seemed to make a big difference, so wouldn't be surprised if different construction of the electric ones made a big difference. Have got a few ideas I think will stop it from leaking completely from around that area, we shall see if they work, but in the meantime it seems to stay dry 99% of the time.
giveitfish said:
Hope you get it going again without too many issues. Looking forward to more updates 
Thank you! It looks like a ball ache. Need to remove the rear bodywork, drop the engine, remove the fan, the intercooler, pipework, plastic shrouds to even see the starter motor! I think it was two bolts on my C-Max and had it replaced in 15 minutes. Oh well. Hoping to bump start it so I can get it indoors, I don't have the mental fortitude to work outside in single digit or freezing temperatures
Thought I'd revisit this. Starter motor died, followed by a month of snow. It's a bit more involved than the 3 bolts I undid on my C-Max, I did get a quote at a specialist but it was just shy of £400, so decided I'd get off my arse and do myself.
Finally got it off the drive and indoors.
Rear bodywork has to come off for starters. Access is still an utter t
t, so swapped out some bolts and dropped the entire subframe/engine 6 inches or so.
This means you can at least get an arm down the front of the engine, although access still isn't really any better.
Some of what I removed after this.
To name a few - throttle body, intercooler pipes, fan, intercooler, intercooler shroud, more pipes and wires, thermostat. Access, as you can clearly see, is still just a tt.
Starter motor is at the top of the pic, under air-con and coolant pipes. Eventually shoehorned starter motor out and replacement in, and put assorted sundries back on the car. Dropped thermostat bolt under starter motor, didn't have a magnet, had to remove it all again, including the new starter, to get the bolt out.
Put car back together but in all the excitement with the bolt, didn't spot gasket for thermostat falling out, hence coolant leak when I turned the car on. Thankfully I checked before putting everything back together!!
Everything back on, and engine back in situ:
Lesson learned - ask for a considerable amount off the price if buying a Smart car (450, 452 and I believe 451) if the starter motor sounds like it's on the way out!
Finally got it off the drive and indoors.
Rear bodywork has to come off for starters. Access is still an utter t
t, so swapped out some bolts and dropped the entire subframe/engine 6 inches or so. This means you can at least get an arm down the front of the engine, although access still isn't really any better.
Some of what I removed after this.
To name a few - throttle body, intercooler pipes, fan, intercooler, intercooler shroud, more pipes and wires, thermostat. Access, as you can clearly see, is still just a t
t. Starter motor is at the top of the pic, under air-con and coolant pipes. Eventually shoehorned starter motor out and replacement in, and put assorted sundries back on the car. Dropped thermostat bolt under starter motor, didn't have a magnet, had to remove it all again, including the new starter, to get the bolt out.
Put car back together but in all the excitement with the bolt, didn't spot gasket for thermostat falling out, hence coolant leak when I turned the car on. Thankfully I checked before putting everything back together!!
Everything back on, and engine back in situ:
Lesson learned - ask for a considerable amount off the price if buying a Smart car (450, 452 and I believe 451) if the starter motor sounds like it's on the way out!
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