W202 - C36 AMG & C43/55 AMG
Discussion
A tale of two W202 AMGs
I have posted pics of my C36 AMG and C43/55 AMG in various PH threads over time. I'm often in awe of the Engineering skills that go on with some of these build threads, probably why I have never got round to doing a Readers Cars thread before, mine only needing fettling, but here we go...
Part one, 1995 C36 AMG.
From 2013 I had a bit of an on/off search for a C36 AMG. Come 2015 prices seemed to be creeping a little and the already shallow pool of nice available examples, drying out.
I wanted a well optioned one, which meant when I saw a very clean, but low spec. ’95, priced a bit on the high side, I dismissed it. It did become my benchmark on condition target, (it was even posted by someone in the Best Smoker Barges IIRC).
Having kissed a lot of frogs up and down the country, I decided that I perhaps should shift my expectations on spec. and have a proper look at this C36 AMG, down in Melksham.
It was as good as it promised.
All original, down to its Blaukpunt stereo, no signs of corrosion and had led an easy life.
Originally supplied by Ciceley Continental in Preston to the Warburtons Bakery for the then Co-Chairman Tom Warburton , moving to its second owner in 2000, who then kept it until 2014, selling it to the Inde. who had maintained it for the previous few years.
The EU spec C36’s all had cloth seats of the Sport model as standard, most buyers opted for Leather. Except Mr Warburton, who opted to keep the cloth, spending the money on A/C (with sunroof delete), Elec. drivers seat, and adjustable column.
On the day of collection, my wife and I were up at sparrow fart and on a train to Melksham. Upon arrival, the glum faced seller informed me the steering lock was jammed. Turns out a common problem on MB's of this age, you generally get a warning of a sticky barrel, then next time; nope you are not coming in. Full of apologies, the seller sent us home in his Toureg, with a promise of a fixed car and a meet up in a few days to swop over.
A few days later, meeting up near Birmingham, we actually got to take it home.
Back home
While I was searching for a C36 AMG, I had stumbled upon an old Pistonheads thread, where someone, knew someone who had the VRM C36 AMG on retention. A few messages back and forth, resulting in a deal shortly after bringing the car home.
90’s Mercedes (apart from rust) can suffer wiring loom degradation. When I viewed the car, the ends of cables looked ok, though around 6 months after during a Service we cut back some of the insulation to the coil packs and the loom was degrading. Rather than wait for it to cause and issue, I had the loom overhauled by Si-Leck.
Having done a bit of circuit racing over the years, I turned to volunteering, mostly in race Control as a Clerk of the Course. My other volunteering role is as a Safety Car driver, usually in the circuit provided car, however the C36 has been pressed into service once or twice.
A trip to le Mans in 2017, saw 4 middle aged blokes, with all the gear squeezed in.
Living in Lancashire, it would have been rude not to have taken a drive to the old Ciceley Continental site in Preston, now a tile store.
During a moment of boredom, I decided to write to the 2nd owner. Just to fill a bit more of the history. They had traded in a Merc 190 against the AMG, kindly sending me a copy of the invoice and a picture of the day they did the hand over, hence both cars displaying the same registration mark.
While I don’t do many miles, less than 5000 in my ownership, apart from servicing and the time the viscous fan hub ejected a clip into the radiator a mile from home, it has needed nothing.
I do like to tinker and the C36 was too nice to mess with, which takes me to part 2…
I have posted pics of my C36 AMG and C43/55 AMG in various PH threads over time. I'm often in awe of the Engineering skills that go on with some of these build threads, probably why I have never got round to doing a Readers Cars thread before, mine only needing fettling, but here we go...
Part one, 1995 C36 AMG.
From 2013 I had a bit of an on/off search for a C36 AMG. Come 2015 prices seemed to be creeping a little and the already shallow pool of nice available examples, drying out.
I wanted a well optioned one, which meant when I saw a very clean, but low spec. ’95, priced a bit on the high side, I dismissed it. It did become my benchmark on condition target, (it was even posted by someone in the Best Smoker Barges IIRC).
Having kissed a lot of frogs up and down the country, I decided that I perhaps should shift my expectations on spec. and have a proper look at this C36 AMG, down in Melksham.
It was as good as it promised.
All original, down to its Blaukpunt stereo, no signs of corrosion and had led an easy life.
Originally supplied by Ciceley Continental in Preston to the Warburtons Bakery for the then Co-Chairman Tom Warburton , moving to its second owner in 2000, who then kept it until 2014, selling it to the Inde. who had maintained it for the previous few years.
The EU spec C36’s all had cloth seats of the Sport model as standard, most buyers opted for Leather. Except Mr Warburton, who opted to keep the cloth, spending the money on A/C (with sunroof delete), Elec. drivers seat, and adjustable column.
On the day of collection, my wife and I were up at sparrow fart and on a train to Melksham. Upon arrival, the glum faced seller informed me the steering lock was jammed. Turns out a common problem on MB's of this age, you generally get a warning of a sticky barrel, then next time; nope you are not coming in. Full of apologies, the seller sent us home in his Toureg, with a promise of a fixed car and a meet up in a few days to swop over.
A few days later, meeting up near Birmingham, we actually got to take it home.
Back home
While I was searching for a C36 AMG, I had stumbled upon an old Pistonheads thread, where someone, knew someone who had the VRM C36 AMG on retention. A few messages back and forth, resulting in a deal shortly after bringing the car home.
90’s Mercedes (apart from rust) can suffer wiring loom degradation. When I viewed the car, the ends of cables looked ok, though around 6 months after during a Service we cut back some of the insulation to the coil packs and the loom was degrading. Rather than wait for it to cause and issue, I had the loom overhauled by Si-Leck.
Having done a bit of circuit racing over the years, I turned to volunteering, mostly in race Control as a Clerk of the Course. My other volunteering role is as a Safety Car driver, usually in the circuit provided car, however the C36 has been pressed into service once or twice.
A trip to le Mans in 2017, saw 4 middle aged blokes, with all the gear squeezed in.
Living in Lancashire, it would have been rude not to have taken a drive to the old Ciceley Continental site in Preston, now a tile store.
During a moment of boredom, I decided to write to the 2nd owner. Just to fill a bit more of the history. They had traded in a Merc 190 against the AMG, kindly sending me a copy of the invoice and a picture of the day they did the hand over, hence both cars displaying the same registration mark.
While I don’t do many miles, less than 5000 in my ownership, apart from servicing and the time the viscous fan hub ejected a clip into the radiator a mile from home, it has needed nothing.
I do like to tinker and the C36 was too nice to mess with, which takes me to part 2…
Edited by Notwen on Wednesday 3rd June 16:38
Zweiter Teil; 1998 C43/55 AMG
Wanting a car to tinker with, I bought a rare W210 E36 AMG, but it was more involved than I wanted, plus I hankered for a V8 rumble again.
C43 AMG’s had been on my radar before when I began to lose faith in finding a C36 AMG. Prices had been creeping and I thought, if I don’t get one now, I would struggle to justify it in the future.
Late 2018, early 2019, I had been trawling the various for sale sites, happy to settle for a rolling project, I could use and improve. I even resorted to a wanted advert on one of the Mercedes forums. A forum member responded he had a C43 that he was thinking of selling.
Some superficial damage down the O/S, bit of corrosion here and there, but the structure was sound, oh and it had an E55 AMG engine conversion in 2013.
I nearly fell out of my chair! It was a bit more than I had in my budget, but my long term plan had been to go 5.4, so the man maths were done.
Based down in Southampton and me up in East Lancashire, I needed to move swiftly, so I took a punt and bought it unseen (I do have a catalogue of drunk eBay purchases, but I was sober this time).
It was (and still is) a 5-footer, polishes up well, but the odd bit here and there if you want to be picky.
The factory Black and Silver (though looks white) “Tuxedo” seats were in good condition, a horrible double din stereo and a carbon wrap looking worse than the fake stuff that MB used.
The dinged in rear door pushed out but left a crease. A fortuitous eBay find of one in the correct Emerald black was bagged for £50.
A full service, including viscous fan hub (after what happened with the C36, a smart buy) and steering damper.
It came with 18” AMG Monobloc wheels from the E55, they were a bit scruffy and I initially wanted a stock look of the 17" rims. Drunk ebay came to the rescue again with a set of replica 18” split rims, the same style that were available as an option on the genuine C55 AMG. (car cheekily badged as a C55)
The brake discs were getting quite worn, though not excessively scored. I was looking at changing them in the next 12 months. The aforementioned MB forum where it had been through 2 or 3 members hands, one of the previous owners contacted me to say he had a full set of OE discs and pads, that when he sold the C43, they were not part of the deal. Nice price, thank you very much.
Like the C36, I use the C43 for runs down to Oulton Park when I am volunteering.
Next up, corrosion...
Wanting a car to tinker with, I bought a rare W210 E36 AMG, but it was more involved than I wanted, plus I hankered for a V8 rumble again.
C43 AMG’s had been on my radar before when I began to lose faith in finding a C36 AMG. Prices had been creeping and I thought, if I don’t get one now, I would struggle to justify it in the future.
Late 2018, early 2019, I had been trawling the various for sale sites, happy to settle for a rolling project, I could use and improve. I even resorted to a wanted advert on one of the Mercedes forums. A forum member responded he had a C43 that he was thinking of selling.
Some superficial damage down the O/S, bit of corrosion here and there, but the structure was sound, oh and it had an E55 AMG engine conversion in 2013.
I nearly fell out of my chair! It was a bit more than I had in my budget, but my long term plan had been to go 5.4, so the man maths were done.
Based down in Southampton and me up in East Lancashire, I needed to move swiftly, so I took a punt and bought it unseen (I do have a catalogue of drunk eBay purchases, but I was sober this time).
It was (and still is) a 5-footer, polishes up well, but the odd bit here and there if you want to be picky.
The factory Black and Silver (though looks white) “Tuxedo” seats were in good condition, a horrible double din stereo and a carbon wrap looking worse than the fake stuff that MB used.
The dinged in rear door pushed out but left a crease. A fortuitous eBay find of one in the correct Emerald black was bagged for £50.
A full service, including viscous fan hub (after what happened with the C36, a smart buy) and steering damper.
It came with 18” AMG Monobloc wheels from the E55, they were a bit scruffy and I initially wanted a stock look of the 17" rims. Drunk ebay came to the rescue again with a set of replica 18” split rims, the same style that were available as an option on the genuine C55 AMG. (car cheekily badged as a C55)
The brake discs were getting quite worn, though not excessively scored. I was looking at changing them in the next 12 months. The aforementioned MB forum where it had been through 2 or 3 members hands, one of the previous owners contacted me to say he had a full set of OE discs and pads, that when he sold the C43, they were not part of the deal. Nice price, thank you very much.
Like the C36, I use the C43 for runs down to Oulton Park when I am volunteering.
Next up, corrosion...
Trophy Husband said:
I'd love a 36 but strong money for a good one. They were the pace car in F1 IIRC?
There is some optimistic pricing going on, has been for a while. They actually seem to be selling in the £5-£7k for a presentable one.They were the first Mercedes AMG Safety Car, late 1996 for Belgium. ('97 went over to the CLK55 AMG).
Though the W202 continued as the Medical Car as a C43 (some reports say it was a C55 ) Estate, certainly in 2000 when it got binned at Monaco.
https://youtu.be/OHX6bgyeS94
MickyveloceClassic said:
Great to see you’re still enthusing about your C36 Notwen!
I’m approaching 14 years of owning my red C36, and still adore its combination of rarity, compact style, overtaking poke and straight-six noise.
Thanks Michael, will have to get over to the Ripon show next year for a meet up.I’m approaching 14 years of owning my red C36, and still adore its combination of rarity, compact style, overtaking poke and straight-six noise.
JakeT said:
Welshy I believe the only 'AMG' before was the W124 Hammer. I think I saw somewhere that the E36 was the first official Mercedes-Benz AMG model after MB purchased AMG.
Prior to 1993 AMG were converters, post '93 they were available through MB dealers with full MB warranty.I may be wrong, but though the W124 predates the W202, it was the C36 as the first official MB-AMG collaboration
edited to add; I started doubting myself about which came first, as there are conflicting resources.
Found this link to MB's own history:
https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/classic/history/t...
Edited by Notwen on Monday 8th June 13:49
Rusty McRust face
Come the tail end of last year, I knew there was a little work to be done with the welder. W202’s rot for fun, while this one looked quite sound, the sill skirts can hide a lot.
The front O/S jacking point started a little suspect, likely due to poor jacking in the past that had compromised the sealant.
With the sealant peeled off and some judicial prodding, plus gravity helped.
Initially I was going to do a repair section. Cleaning back the underseal further along the sill, while not holed, it would have been a job for the future. So went down the full sill route.
Behind the sils was a small flitch plate, with differing curves. Made an absolute pig of trying to replicate it. Then came up trumps with a NOS piece, according to the MB label was actually older than the car. I cut out and remade the jacking point support.
The worse areas were, where there are factory fitted bungs under the rear arches and rear floor.
Cut out and new pieces fabricated.
(this was after me giving the bung a prod)
I really struggled to get the underbody coating to a similar consistency, so will see how it ages.
Another favoured spot for C Class corrosion, is the boot (from leaking batteries missing the vent tube normally) and the section behind the O/S rear wheel. Fortunately the later is still available as a repair section from Mercedes.
Towing eye
MB still list the towing eye, a veritable bargain at less the £10.
Just before Easter it was back on its wheels.
Then outside for a well deserved clean.
Didn't take long for Brian the Beagle to stage a sit in protest, of wanting a ride out.
The plan had been, the week after Easter I was going to MOT it as it ran out in March.
Missing the 6 month extension, it has sat since awaiting a decent run.
Come the tail end of last year, I knew there was a little work to be done with the welder. W202’s rot for fun, while this one looked quite sound, the sill skirts can hide a lot.
The front O/S jacking point started a little suspect, likely due to poor jacking in the past that had compromised the sealant.
With the sealant peeled off and some judicial prodding, plus gravity helped.
Initially I was going to do a repair section. Cleaning back the underseal further along the sill, while not holed, it would have been a job for the future. So went down the full sill route.
Behind the sils was a small flitch plate, with differing curves. Made an absolute pig of trying to replicate it. Then came up trumps with a NOS piece, according to the MB label was actually older than the car. I cut out and remade the jacking point support.
The worse areas were, where there are factory fitted bungs under the rear arches and rear floor.
Cut out and new pieces fabricated.
(this was after me giving the bung a prod)
I really struggled to get the underbody coating to a similar consistency, so will see how it ages.
Another favoured spot for C Class corrosion, is the boot (from leaking batteries missing the vent tube normally) and the section behind the O/S rear wheel. Fortunately the later is still available as a repair section from Mercedes.
Towing eye
MB still list the towing eye, a veritable bargain at less the £10.
Just before Easter it was back on its wheels.
Then outside for a well deserved clean.
Didn't take long for Brian the Beagle to stage a sit in protest, of wanting a ride out.
The plan had been, the week after Easter I was going to MOT it as it ran out in March.
Missing the 6 month extension, it has sat since awaiting a decent run.
Thanks for all the replies.
It's good to see some love for the oft overlooked W202.
The C36 is limited to 155mph, I expect the C43/55 is too.
Genuine C55's were delimited, along with a different transmission and bigger diff, requiring the reworking of the rear floor.
The UK conversion retains the C43 injection system, apparently it copes fine and does not lean off.
Tranny and diff are stock C43 too.
According to a GPS based 0-60 app, I have managed a 4.1s dash to 60.
power specs taken from period roadtests.
C36's; 280bhp, 284lbft @4000rpm
C43's; 306bhp, 302lbft @3250rpm
C55's; 347bhp, 376lbft @3000rpm
It's not too lairy, the snowflake ESP stops you getting in too much trouble.
Last year the two were part of a magazine article, the editor was rather taken with the C43/55.
It's good to see some love for the oft overlooked W202.
The C36 is limited to 155mph, I expect the C43/55 is too.
Genuine C55's were delimited, along with a different transmission and bigger diff, requiring the reworking of the rear floor.
The UK conversion retains the C43 injection system, apparently it copes fine and does not lean off.
Tranny and diff are stock C43 too.
According to a GPS based 0-60 app, I have managed a 4.1s dash to 60.
power specs taken from period roadtests.
C36's; 280bhp, 284lbft @4000rpm
C43's; 306bhp, 302lbft @3250rpm
C55's; 347bhp, 376lbft @3000rpm
It's not too lairy, the snowflake ESP stops you getting in too much trouble.
Last year the two were part of a magazine article, the editor was rather taken with the C43/55.
MOTK said:
Great cars. My friend has had his C55 estate from new (1 of 7 rhd I believe!), over 200,000 miles now I think. Boy did it rust though :~(
Wow, I'm impressed (not at the rust, but that's part of 90's MB ownership)That would have been an expensive purchase back in the day. Car was circa £50k, the conversion £25k. the split rim 18" wheels were not far off a £5k option. I think 7 is being generous, I thought it was 5 RHD and only I of them was an estate.
The C55 conversion included the CLK55 transmission and diff, necessitating a reworked rear floor.
A higher final drive of 2.82:1, replacing the C43's 3.07:1.
The exhaust was supposed to be a little different, possibly rerouted due to the diff change.
Brakes and suspension were not changed IIRC.
The easiest spot of a genuine C55 is the 300kph/180mph speedo.
A higher final drive of 2.82:1, replacing the C43's 3.07:1.
The exhaust was supposed to be a little different, possibly rerouted due to the diff change.
Brakes and suspension were not changed IIRC.
The easiest spot of a genuine C55 is the 300kph/180mph speedo.
Welshbeef said:
Was the C43AMG up against the B5 RS4 bi turbo and E36 M3Evo/E46 M3?
Car magazine (Dec 97) and Autocar (March 98) road tests, pitched the C43 (£42k) against S4 (£36.5k) and E36 M3 (£38k [4 door]).Autocar magazine would take the M3 as a weekend car, S4 as a daily driver and the C43 "happily open the garage every morning to greet it"
Car magazine summary;
1st place S4 "Great engine, great chassis, great drive, less challenging than M3, but just as rewarding. Faster and cheaper too"
2nd place C43 "Power, poise and pedigree in abundance, Safe, comfortable, competent but puritanical. Thirsty and expensive too"
3rd place M3 "Wonderful car, dodgy transmission. best handler on a dry road, but pricier and ultimately less surefooted than the S4"
History would indicate otherwise, with the M3 outstripping the S4 and C43 by some margin.
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