Ineos Grenadier
Discussion
I’ve owned a number of Land Rovers over the years and many other 4x4’s. Like many I was a little disappointed to see the utility vanishing from the Sports Utility Vehicle so when Ineos announced they were attempting to buy the rights tk the Defender to keep production going after JLR pulled the plug I was really quite excited to see how it would evolve.
Of course we all know that didn’t happen and Ineos set about building their new Utility Vehicle (just UV, definitely not SUV) from scratch.
I paid the initial £450 reservation fee with the intent of buying a utility wagon through a Ltd Co to replace a 2019 transit custom crew van and a 2018 L200 DCPU.
Then, unfortunately, it transpired that the Grenadier is too heavy to qualify as a commercial vehicle for VAT and BIK purposes. Bugger!
Looking around the market place, hard to find one vehicle that could replace my two working vehicles (we actually have a defender 90 and a series 3 too but they’re not going anywhere - there will always be a place in my shed for old Landies).
Tough call. 4x4 vans are thin on the ground, very limited in off-road capability and huge money. I specced a Vito up to nearly £100k but at least it would be tax efficient. Double cab pickups are getting better and a new ranger was on the cards but fitting a canopy or roll cover detracts from their usefulness.
There’s no dealer near here and I missed the roadshow. Early reviews weren’t particularly positive, lots of complaints about fit and finish, steering feel, electrical gremlins, an apparent ergonomic nightmare in the RHD cars because of the bump in the footwell caused by the exhaust manifold.
I bumped into somebody with one in the supermarket carpark a few weeks ago and he very kindly let me have a good look around it, sit in it and even took me for a drive. An enthusiastic fella, obviously delighted with his purchase.
Footwell bump didn’t bother me at all - it’s maybe related to a persons build. I’m tall and found a good seating position easily.
I set about looking for one to buy personally. I’ve never spent this kind of money on a car for myself and while the companies I run have sufficient cash on hand to buy a company vehicle outright I’d be looking to either pay a buttload of tax to take the money out or finance the vehicle - again something I’ve never done. I’ve never spent more than £25k on a car so spaffing this amount of money was a big deal for me.
When the configurator went live my spec was about £60k including vat. 5 seat utility wagon, safari windows, diff locks, cloth, no carpet, steel wheels. Once orders were being taken that had grown to £65-67k and by November 23 a new one at this spec would be over £80k and a waiting list of over a year.
Started looking at second hand ones, around 90 on auto trader but many in specs that didn’t suit me. Weird colours, leather & carpet, no diff locks, no roof windows etc. prices often advertised from £55k but usually plus VAT and for very basic cars.
My must-haves were:
Rough pack (basically the axle lockers)
Safari windows
Grey or black
Cargo barrier (dog guard)
Cloth seats
No carpet
Tow pack
High load electrical pack
Twin batteries
My nice-to-haves were:
Diesel
Steel wheels
Saddle leather wheel
Red chassis (I know, I know but I like the contrast)
Who spends £70k in a car sight unseen? Me!
Here she is, arriving this week.
139 miles on the clock when I bought it but the dealer drove it 600 miles to deliver it.
I was slightly disappointed, I had assumed it would be in a trailer or flatbed.
Car registered June 23 so an early one, VIN is around 2000 out of 9000 to date.
Trialmaster Diesel station wagon
Safari windows
Heated seats
Tow pack
Privacy glass
I paid slightly over £70k for it including delivery and the dog guard. This spec would be £82k new.
Of course we all know that didn’t happen and Ineos set about building their new Utility Vehicle (just UV, definitely not SUV) from scratch.
I paid the initial £450 reservation fee with the intent of buying a utility wagon through a Ltd Co to replace a 2019 transit custom crew van and a 2018 L200 DCPU.
Then, unfortunately, it transpired that the Grenadier is too heavy to qualify as a commercial vehicle for VAT and BIK purposes. Bugger!
Looking around the market place, hard to find one vehicle that could replace my two working vehicles (we actually have a defender 90 and a series 3 too but they’re not going anywhere - there will always be a place in my shed for old Landies).
Tough call. 4x4 vans are thin on the ground, very limited in off-road capability and huge money. I specced a Vito up to nearly £100k but at least it would be tax efficient. Double cab pickups are getting better and a new ranger was on the cards but fitting a canopy or roll cover detracts from their usefulness.
There’s no dealer near here and I missed the roadshow. Early reviews weren’t particularly positive, lots of complaints about fit and finish, steering feel, electrical gremlins, an apparent ergonomic nightmare in the RHD cars because of the bump in the footwell caused by the exhaust manifold.
I bumped into somebody with one in the supermarket carpark a few weeks ago and he very kindly let me have a good look around it, sit in it and even took me for a drive. An enthusiastic fella, obviously delighted with his purchase.
Footwell bump didn’t bother me at all - it’s maybe related to a persons build. I’m tall and found a good seating position easily.
I set about looking for one to buy personally. I’ve never spent this kind of money on a car for myself and while the companies I run have sufficient cash on hand to buy a company vehicle outright I’d be looking to either pay a buttload of tax to take the money out or finance the vehicle - again something I’ve never done. I’ve never spent more than £25k on a car so spaffing this amount of money was a big deal for me.
When the configurator went live my spec was about £60k including vat. 5 seat utility wagon, safari windows, diff locks, cloth, no carpet, steel wheels. Once orders were being taken that had grown to £65-67k and by November 23 a new one at this spec would be over £80k and a waiting list of over a year.
Started looking at second hand ones, around 90 on auto trader but many in specs that didn’t suit me. Weird colours, leather & carpet, no diff locks, no roof windows etc. prices often advertised from £55k but usually plus VAT and for very basic cars.
My must-haves were:
Rough pack (basically the axle lockers)
Safari windows
Grey or black
Cargo barrier (dog guard)
Cloth seats
No carpet
Tow pack
High load electrical pack
Twin batteries
My nice-to-haves were:
Diesel
Steel wheels
Saddle leather wheel
Red chassis (I know, I know but I like the contrast)
Who spends £70k in a car sight unseen? Me!
Here she is, arriving this week.
139 miles on the clock when I bought it but the dealer drove it 600 miles to deliver it.
I was slightly disappointed, I had assumed it would be in a trailer or flatbed.
Car registered June 23 so an early one, VIN is around 2000 out of 9000 to date.
Trialmaster Diesel station wagon
Safari windows
Heated seats
Tow pack
Privacy glass
I paid slightly over £70k for it including delivery and the dog guard. This spec would be £82k new.
Edited by Lefty on Thursday 30th November 15:55
Initial impressions:
Driving position is great for me
Visibility forwards is excellent - not so much out the rear but I’m used to driving a van with no rear window so not an issue. Easy to place on narrow roads and tracks, I can see both front corners easily.
Headlights are great, reversing light not so much. I might fit a little LED at the rear on one of the pre-wired roof circuits as a useful work light / additional reverse light.
Steering is very light and lacks feel, lots of turns lock-lock. Turning circle about the same as my L2 Transit Custom. If you’re not used to driving such things I can see how it might be an issue.
HVAC: heater and heated seats are absolutely ferocious. Splendid.
VED £189 - nice!
Very comfortable.
Build quality. Interesting one. It feels very solid and very heavy. Feels over-Engineered. Doors are heavy, lovely solid feeling hinges. Underneath everything is massive and looks strong. Interior plastics not great, not as good as my van for example but on par with previous gen pickup trucks.
For a car that’s meant to be as basic as possible it still has a lot of electronic stuff. TPMS and temp sensors for engine, gearbox transfer case, batteries and tyres. Lots of bings and bongs which I’m not a fan of. Hope I can turn them off.
Quite hard to see where the ignition key goes in the dark, cabin illumination isn’t great but that might be a good thing - I was always a fan of the Saab night mode. I’m sure I’ll develop muscle memory of where the key goes.
CarPlay worked first time and stereo sounds great, much better than transit, a bit better than the L200.
Rides better than L200, about the same as the van.
Not much storage in cabin, tiny glovebox and small door pockets. I might get seat covers which often come with storage pockets on side of bolsters and behind front seat backs.
250bhp diesel BMW lump (B57 I think it’s called?). You couldn’t call it fast but loads of torque, I haven’t towed anything apart from my empty 16’ trailer yet. Camera is offset above the tow-ball which is annoying .
Edited for stupid phone typos and autocorrects
Driving position is great for me
Visibility forwards is excellent - not so much out the rear but I’m used to driving a van with no rear window so not an issue. Easy to place on narrow roads and tracks, I can see both front corners easily.
Headlights are great, reversing light not so much. I might fit a little LED at the rear on one of the pre-wired roof circuits as a useful work light / additional reverse light.
Steering is very light and lacks feel, lots of turns lock-lock. Turning circle about the same as my L2 Transit Custom. If you’re not used to driving such things I can see how it might be an issue.
HVAC: heater and heated seats are absolutely ferocious. Splendid.
VED £189 - nice!
Very comfortable.
Build quality. Interesting one. It feels very solid and very heavy. Feels over-Engineered. Doors are heavy, lovely solid feeling hinges. Underneath everything is massive and looks strong. Interior plastics not great, not as good as my van for example but on par with previous gen pickup trucks.
For a car that’s meant to be as basic as possible it still has a lot of electronic stuff. TPMS and temp sensors for engine, gearbox transfer case, batteries and tyres. Lots of bings and bongs which I’m not a fan of. Hope I can turn them off.
Quite hard to see where the ignition key goes in the dark, cabin illumination isn’t great but that might be a good thing - I was always a fan of the Saab night mode. I’m sure I’ll develop muscle memory of where the key goes.
CarPlay worked first time and stereo sounds great, much better than transit, a bit better than the L200.
Rides better than L200, about the same as the van.
Not much storage in cabin, tiny glovebox and small door pockets. I might get seat covers which often come with storage pockets on side of bolsters and behind front seat backs.
250bhp diesel BMW lump (B57 I think it’s called?). You couldn’t call it fast but loads of torque, I haven’t towed anything apart from my empty 16’ trailer yet. Camera is offset above the tow-ball which is annoying .
Edited for stupid phone typos and autocorrects
Edited by Lefty on Wednesday 6th December 17:41
ChocolateFrog said:
I'm sure this will generate a lot of interest.
Think I'd be miffed if the supplying dealer more than quadrupled the mileage on my new car unless it was clearly stated.
Surely they'd need to 2 cars to drive it down? Doesn't look like you're walking distance from public transport.
Yes to all of that.Think I'd be miffed if the supplying dealer more than quadrupled the mileage on my new car unless it was clearly stated.
Surely they'd need to 2 cars to drive it down? Doesn't look like you're walking distance from public transport.
It seems to be a deeply divisive vehicle and company. I have no interest in any arguments over the B word or where it’s made. I made my decision to buy it purely on my needs and what was available in the market.
Guy drove it up on his own and I dropped him at train station 4 miles away, hadn’t been agreed or even discussed beforehand. Wasn’t a problem but I’m not sure what his plan was if I couldn’t do that. At least he stopped and washed it in a town 15 miles away but it arrived with hardly any fuel in.
CKY said:
Lefty said:
I’ve owned a number of Land Rovers over the years and many other 4x4’s. Like many I was a little disappointed to see the utility vanishing from the Sports Utility Vehicle so when Ineos announced they were attempting to buy the rights tk the Defender to keep production going after JLR pulled the plug I was really quite excited to see how it would evolve.
Every day is a school day, I always thought SUV = Suburban Utility Vehicle, by dint of the acronym/vehicle type originating from across the pond, and the fact that cars such as Land Rovers/other 4x4s are not by any stretch of the imagination 'Sporty'. Thankyou for enlightening me! 
Going back to the steering.
I’ve heard people say it wanders around in the road. I’m not sure I agree. I think if you were focus on the steering wheel and what you are doing then yes you’ll be aware that you are making corrections and needing to guide it more than you might expect but if you don’t think about it you do it subconsciously. A bit like sailing or riding a bike. And an awful lot better than a series Land Rover. Feels similar to a Defender (the old one).
I’ve heard people say it wanders around in the road. I’m not sure I agree. I think if you were focus on the steering wheel and what you are doing then yes you’ll be aware that you are making corrections and needing to guide it more than you might expect but if you don’t think about it you do it subconsciously. A bit like sailing or riding a bike. And an awful lot better than a series Land Rover.
Feels similar to a Defender (the old one). Closest is the “new” 70 series Landcruiser but it’s not officially available here (you could grey import one) and it’s an ancient design, you really wouldn’t want to crash one.
I do love them though.
Whilst going through my decision making process I did actually contemplate restoring a 110 or 130 Defender with galvanised chassis, bulkhead, doors etc, perhaps an OM606 or rover v8 but you still end up with an inherently deeply flawed (but deeply characterful and loveable) vehicle costing an awful lot of money - and you still wouldn’t want to crash one.
I do love them though.
Whilst going through my decision making process I did actually contemplate restoring a 110 or 130 Defender with galvanised chassis, bulkhead, doors etc, perhaps an OM606 or rover v8 but you still end up with an inherently deeply flawed (but deeply characterful and loveable) vehicle costing an awful lot of money - and you still wouldn’t want to crash one.
Earthdweller said:
Looks great and probably the ideal vehicle for your rural location
Look forward to the updates
Thanks. Yes it’s a rather niche vehicle, a niche within a niche and it absolutely won’t be for everyone. Look forward to the updates
I have a little farm with 110 acres of woodland, we get lots (and lots) of snow and I’m always fixing gates or fences and tracks and such like. I do some surveying on the side as part of my consulting business which sometimes necessitate trips into the wilds for wind farms and what not.
Edited by Lefty on Thursday 30th November 14:44
They are already extensively rust proofed (galvanised, e-coated and have cavity wax), I haven’t had mine up on the ramp yet to inspect it but I’ve seen pictures of other grenadiers where you can see where the wax has been used.
I might well do some kind of further underseal / additional wax injection, I plan on keeping this a very long time.
I might well do some kind of further underseal / additional wax injection, I plan on keeping this a very long time.
I’ve driven 80 miles in it today.
Some more thoughts:
Whilst the switches are all logically laid out and well spaced, not to mention easy to use with gloves on (it’s -3 and snowing just now) they're not all quite the chunky, solid, positive-feeling heavy-duty switches you might want or expect.
Driving position is great for me, no issues at all. The ergonomics that some people find to be a problem seem to fit me perfectly (I’m 6’4”-and-a-bit, so tall but not a giant). Love the flat door top to rest my arm on, just like a van. Everything falls to hand easily.
Annoying that start/stop has to be switched off every journey. I would rather it remembered that I switched it off.
Long travel accelerator pedal - takes a bit of getting used to but don’t notice now. It’s not boost threshold or lag but it takes a fraction longer to get off the line than I expected, almost like a throttle mapping thing or some kind of slight delay in the gearbox. It’s not an issue, I don’t think it’s a fault, just a quirk.
I found out how to quieten down the bingbongs. That’s A Good Thing.
Wife loves it, though she finds it quite high for climbing in to, she’s only 5’2” bless.
Some more thoughts:
Whilst the switches are all logically laid out and well spaced, not to mention easy to use with gloves on (it’s -3 and snowing just now) they're not all quite the chunky, solid, positive-feeling heavy-duty switches you might want or expect.
Driving position is great for me, no issues at all. The ergonomics that some people find to be a problem seem to fit me perfectly (I’m 6’4”-and-a-bit, so tall but not a giant). Love the flat door top to rest my arm on, just like a van. Everything falls to hand easily.
Annoying that start/stop has to be switched off every journey. I would rather it remembered that I switched it off.
Long travel accelerator pedal - takes a bit of getting used to but don’t notice now. It’s not boost threshold or lag but it takes a fraction longer to get off the line than I expected, almost like a throttle mapping thing or some kind of slight delay in the gearbox. It’s not an issue, I don’t think it’s a fault, just a quirk.
I found out how to quieten down the bingbongs. That’s A Good Thing.
Wife loves it, though she finds it quite high for climbing in to, she’s only 5’2” bless.
JAMSXR said:
Like it, nice spec. It’s good to see these being purchased for their intended purpose.
Thank you. Yes it would be a weird choice if you only drive from suburban home to office to golf club to home again. I have no doubt whatsoever that as a road car pretty much every SUV out there would be a better choice, including the new defender.
For the record, I didn’t consider a new Defender 110 or 130. I love the interior and I recognise the off-road ability with the awesome traction control but I’m planning on keeping this a very long time to make the spend worth while and I have reliability/complexity/longevity concerns with modern JLR products. Plus, I have experience of the local dealer network and they are complete a
holes. The original concept for the Grenadier was to make all the workshop manuals, product diagrams and parts lists freely available to owners and to offer worldwide fast shipping. This hasn’t happened yet but I absolutely love the idea. Slated for Q1 ‘24 but we’ll see how that pans out. I’ll be doing basic maintenance myself (oil changes, brakes etc).
There is an approved service centre near here (10 miles away) so that will be useful I’m sure. I’m going to pop in to say hello one day.
BigMon said:
I like it very much indeed and would probably have one over a Land Rover\Range Rover too tbh. For some reason it just does it for me (I have an Defender itch that I never scratched).
I love Defenders, had quite a few and they definitely get under your skin, flaws and all. FlyingTrotter said:
There is a very good forum that exists for the IG - lot of very helpful feedback - aside from the software issues largely solvable by an update , the steering feel which seems you are ok with , left foot hump you mention , the turning circle which makes it challenging for urban use - the main issues seem to be the water ingress from the seals and some build quality issues with early VIN
OP if you have not already done so I would check out the forum and in particular the issues a guy posting as log splitter has uncovered on his trip through Africa - an early VIN might mean no radiator strut , single bolts in places they later used two and a few other issues resolvable with your local dealer
Sounds like it’s the right vehicle for your usage - hope it lives up to your hopes - I had liked the concept but wasn’t in the end right for me
Found it, really interesting thread that, thank you. OP if you have not already done so I would check out the forum and in particular the issues a guy posting as log splitter has uncovered on his trip through Africa - an early VIN might mean no radiator strut , single bolts in places they later used two and a few other issues resolvable with your local dealer
Sounds like it’s the right vehicle for your usage - hope it lives up to your hopes - I had liked the concept but wasn’t in the end right for me
I will get underneath and see if I have the rad bracket, I suspect not.
PistonbrokePaul said:
Great to see somebody has done a Readers Ride on one of these!
I was lucky enough to go along to an Ineos roadshow last week where they took you out on an off-road course in the trailmaster diesel and then swapped to the fieldmaster petrol to try it on some roads. As quite the avid fan of these since they were announced, I was hoping it would be better than some of the reviews made it out to be and honestly, I thought both versions were not without flaws but they definitely felt like they were designed to go anywhere, with the road manners a bit further down the list, although in their defence, not the worst ride I have experienced from a car.
The steering, aside from the 4 turns lock to lock, is exactly the same as my M140i feels in regards to how it was weighted but I did notice (you may not) that the 12 o'clock marker was in black on a black wheel, so when we were off-road, it took a few seconds to figure out where the wheels were pointing, although the instructor/guide did show there is an option on the screen for that when in off-road mode.
Apologies for derailing the thread, I'm really enthusiastic about the Grenadier and keen to follow how you get on with it as one would be the ideal vehicle for me once they get a bit cheaper
Yes I must admit I quite like the saddle leather wheel, if I had been buying new I would have ticked that box - I think the 12 marker is slightly more obvious. I was lucky enough to go along to an Ineos roadshow last week where they took you out on an off-road course in the trailmaster diesel and then swapped to the fieldmaster petrol to try it on some roads. As quite the avid fan of these since they were announced, I was hoping it would be better than some of the reviews made it out to be and honestly, I thought both versions were not without flaws but they definitely felt like they were designed to go anywhere, with the road manners a bit further down the list, although in their defence, not the worst ride I have experienced from a car.
The steering, aside from the 4 turns lock to lock, is exactly the same as my M140i feels in regards to how it was weighted but I did notice (you may not) that the 12 o'clock marker was in black on a black wheel, so when we were off-road, it took a few seconds to figure out where the wheels were pointing, although the instructor/guide did show there is an option on the screen for that when in off-road mode.
Apologies for derailing the thread, I'm really enthusiastic about the Grenadier and keen to follow how you get on with it as one would be the ideal vehicle for me once they get a bit cheaper
I may see if I can get the wheel either re-covered (I have used royal steering wheels a few times before - they are excellent) or try to get hold of one at a reasonable price.
Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff