1991 Toyota MR2 Mk2 V6 3VZ-FE Upgrade (hopefully)
Discussion
Greetings fellow PH'ers!
For some reason my brother decided that his MR2 (already quite quick) needed a V6 lumping in. While saving up for the bits he needed he wanted to deposit his car in my now vacated garage (recently parted with my 928 S2 on PH!). I decided that instead of waiting for him to get rich, I would underwrite the project. Thats the kind of big brother i am.
So far we have sourced a pretty good 3VZ-FE from a Lexus ES300 (barge doesnt come close) which is now sat on a trolley in my garage. I think we have all the bits we need, but i wanted to share the whole experience as we have made good use of so many other forums and blogs to get this far, i'm hoping we can give a bit back through our own voyage of discovery.
We both have some fairly passable skills in a variety of disciplines, so i'm hoping that we can prove that this kind of thing is really idiot proof...
Chris (and Pat i guess....)
For some reason my brother decided that his MR2 (already quite quick) needed a V6 lumping in. While saving up for the bits he needed he wanted to deposit his car in my now vacated garage (recently parted with my 928 S2 on PH!). I decided that instead of waiting for him to get rich, I would underwrite the project. Thats the kind of big brother i am.
So far we have sourced a pretty good 3VZ-FE from a Lexus ES300 (barge doesnt come close) which is now sat on a trolley in my garage. I think we have all the bits we need, but i wanted to share the whole experience as we have made good use of so many other forums and blogs to get this far, i'm hoping we can give a bit back through our own voyage of discovery.
We both have some fairly passable skills in a variety of disciplines, so i'm hoping that we can prove that this kind of thing is really idiot proof...
Chris (and Pat i guess....)
Hey Speedracer!
That looks nice. If our car is anywhere near as shiny as that when it's done we will be most pleased!
Here's a couple of pics of the donor car.
The Lexus ES300 was a real find, reasonably low milage, and quite cheap considering what these engines go for. It does need a very good clean so a lot will probably end up being removed and painted pretty colours. We may also do a top end rebuild, although we are quite giddy to get the engine in so we might choose to take it back out at a later date and make some upgrades (cams and headwork etc). For now i think we will aim for a PASS rather than a DISTINCTION, or as i like to call it "walk before we run!".
We managed to get the engine out with a bit of a fight. With all the additional ancillaries that Lexus throw in it's a bit of a tight fit. Pat was very happy.....
The full list of what we removed (in case you are interested) is:-
The next step will be to source the required engine mount, flywheel & clutch components and of course change the cambelt, plugs and leads etc.
The rest of the car was scrapped (for cash!), which was a shame as it was near mint inside. We kept the wheels, light clusters and a couple of expensive looking bits that didnt take up too much precious garage space.
More to follow as it happens!
Chris.
That looks nice. If our car is anywhere near as shiny as that when it's done we will be most pleased!
Here's a couple of pics of the donor car.
The Lexus ES300 was a real find, reasonably low milage, and quite cheap considering what these engines go for. It does need a very good clean so a lot will probably end up being removed and painted pretty colours. We may also do a top end rebuild, although we are quite giddy to get the engine in so we might choose to take it back out at a later date and make some upgrades (cams and headwork etc). For now i think we will aim for a PASS rather than a DISTINCTION, or as i like to call it "walk before we run!".
We managed to get the engine out with a bit of a fight. With all the additional ancillaries that Lexus throw in it's a bit of a tight fit. Pat was very happy.....
The full list of what we removed (in case you are interested) is:-
- The engine and gearbox (gearbox was discarded)
- The engine wiring loom back to the engine ECU
- The components in the engine bay - coil pack / canister / fuse boxes
- The ECU with the all important 4th connector (the one that doesnt go to the engine harness)
- The instrument panel (need the rev counter board)
The next step will be to source the required engine mount, flywheel & clutch components and of course change the cambelt, plugs and leads etc.
The rest of the car was scrapped (for cash!), which was a shame as it was near mint inside. We kept the wheels, light clusters and a couple of expensive looking bits that didnt take up too much precious garage space.
More to follow as it happens!
Chris.
Ug_Lee!
Firstly let me just say that my brother and i have taken great interest in your 3.5 V6 swap. There have been several projects that have inspired and guided us thus far, yours being hign on the list.
twobrutal has been another good source of information, especially to see how people have taken slightly different routes to solve problems.
My brother and i have different ideas about timescales though. I was happy to spend the winter pottering away, but ever since my younger sibling read the rather bold statement that "you can do it in a weekend" he is keen to get it in and running ASAP. Given that he is in south wales and i'm in Northampton (with his beloved MR2) i think it will probably end up being sooner rather than later, especially if i'm paying for stuff!
Performance~wise, i didnt expect the V6 to out perform a 3S-GTE, and given that his 3S-GE is already quite tasty, i'm not sure that the performance will really blow anyone's socks off, but good golly i like the noise the V6 makes, and every video on YouTube i have seen seems to suggest that the torque output of the 3VZ-FE on that box in that car will not disappoint....
Soon as we get the MR2 done and out of my garage i can get back to my ZR160 > T16 upgrade....
Chris.
Firstly let me just say that my brother and i have taken great interest in your 3.5 V6 swap. There have been several projects that have inspired and guided us thus far, yours being hign on the list.
twobrutal has been another good source of information, especially to see how people have taken slightly different routes to solve problems.
My brother and i have different ideas about timescales though. I was happy to spend the winter pottering away, but ever since my younger sibling read the rather bold statement that "you can do it in a weekend" he is keen to get it in and running ASAP. Given that he is in south wales and i'm in Northampton (with his beloved MR2) i think it will probably end up being sooner rather than later, especially if i'm paying for stuff!
Performance~wise, i didnt expect the V6 to out perform a 3S-GTE, and given that his 3S-GE is already quite tasty, i'm not sure that the performance will really blow anyone's socks off, but good golly i like the noise the V6 makes, and every video on YouTube i have seen seems to suggest that the torque output of the 3VZ-FE on that box in that car will not disappoint....
Soon as we get the MR2 done and out of my garage i can get back to my ZR160 > T16 upgrade....
Chris.
Still arguing over flywheels at the moment.
There seems to be a lot of discussion over what will / wont fit. Seems that the 3VZ-E engine fitted to the Toyota 4Runner (Hilux Surf) 3.0 V6 manual will fit, but there must be other Toyota engines that used the same flywheel.
I think we will end up buying a couple and seeing what will actually fit.
After all; this is a voyage of discovery....
Chris.
There seems to be a lot of discussion over what will / wont fit. Seems that the 3VZ-E engine fitted to the Toyota 4Runner (Hilux Surf) 3.0 V6 manual will fit, but there must be other Toyota engines that used the same flywheel.
I think we will end up buying a couple and seeing what will actually fit.
After all; this is a voyage of discovery....
Chris.
Ug_Lee!
I think that was pats question really - we have found some wildly conflicting information regarding what will or wont fit.
Ideally we need a 3VZ-FE M/T flywheel - but this is a rare item as the cars with that engine were never sold with M/T in this country by all accounts.
A couple of reports suggest that buying one in the US and shipping it over isnt price-prohibitive, but during our research we have found that a flywheel that fits a 3VZ-FE will also fit a 3VZ-E. That engine WAS sold in this country in a Toyota 4Runner (Hilux Surf) 3.0 V6 format, and probably others.
Pat thinks that if we get the standard flywheel from the MR2 welded and re-machined, we can use the MR2 clutch parts. I'm not entirely sure it would be any cheaper in the long run than sourcing the right flywheel.
To be honest we had not thought about the power going through it. Pat reckons that the clutch in his MR2 is non-standard, and tbh, it has taken a damn good spanking and still seems fine.
Chris.
I think that was pats question really - we have found some wildly conflicting information regarding what will or wont fit.
Ideally we need a 3VZ-FE M/T flywheel - but this is a rare item as the cars with that engine were never sold with M/T in this country by all accounts.
A couple of reports suggest that buying one in the US and shipping it over isnt price-prohibitive, but during our research we have found that a flywheel that fits a 3VZ-FE will also fit a 3VZ-E. That engine WAS sold in this country in a Toyota 4Runner (Hilux Surf) 3.0 V6 format, and probably others.
Pat thinks that if we get the standard flywheel from the MR2 welded and re-machined, we can use the MR2 clutch parts. I'm not entirely sure it would be any cheaper in the long run than sourcing the right flywheel.
To be honest we had not thought about the power going through it. Pat reckons that the clutch in his MR2 is non-standard, and tbh, it has taken a damn good spanking and still seems fine.
Chris.
Hi OwenK,
We will be sure to keep you posted on how we get on - it's always easier to learn from other peoples mistakes, erm i mean experiences....Pat wants to write a manual. I'm not sure that we should encourage people as stupid as us to try this, but it might make for good comedy reading. We will probably write some of it in casualty, i hear the wait is quite long....
Started buying supplies - cambelt, plugs, got hold of an engine stand so we can work on the engine without it swinging in the wind.
The MR2 is likely coming off the road this weekend, as it has developed a slight water leak in a stupid place. We would like the old engine to have some resale value, so i guess that means we start work on the swap!
Chris
(No idea where Pat is....)
We will be sure to keep you posted on how we get on - it's always easier to learn from other peoples mistakes, erm i mean experiences....Pat wants to write a manual. I'm not sure that we should encourage people as stupid as us to try this, but it might make for good comedy reading. We will probably write some of it in casualty, i hear the wait is quite long....
Started buying supplies - cambelt, plugs, got hold of an engine stand so we can work on the engine without it swinging in the wind.
The MR2 is likely coming off the road this weekend, as it has developed a slight water leak in a stupid place. We would like the old engine to have some resale value, so i guess that means we start work on the swap!
Chris
(No idea where Pat is....)
Trinidad eh? Bet it's not hoofing it down there!
Thanks for the advice, i will have a look in the morning when i'm more awake.
From what we have read people have gone various routes including fitting a 3VZ-E / 3VZ-FE flywheel, turbo PP and standard clutch.
We will take your advice though and see what we can turn up - availability seems to be a constraint here but we would like to be able to use a setup that we can replicate if we need to replace parts at some point.
Started removing unwanted bits from the engine today and removing the harness so we can get at the heads / gaskets change etc. That standard mount (the one we need to replace) weighs the same as a goddam house brick. Thankfully theres a lot of scrap we dont need on this engine, the brackets for the power steering and aircon pumps are not light either!
Pics to follow...
Chris.
Thanks for the advice, i will have a look in the morning when i'm more awake.
From what we have read people have gone various routes including fitting a 3VZ-E / 3VZ-FE flywheel, turbo PP and standard clutch.
We will take your advice though and see what we can turn up - availability seems to be a constraint here but we would like to be able to use a setup that we can replicate if we need to replace parts at some point.
Started removing unwanted bits from the engine today and removing the harness so we can get at the heads / gaskets change etc. That standard mount (the one we need to replace) weighs the same as a goddam house brick. Thankfully theres a lot of scrap we dont need on this engine, the brackets for the power steering and aircon pumps are not light either!
Pics to follow...
Chris.
Got stuck into clearing down the engine loom this weekend so we can get at the heads, and despite best efforts to pressure was the engine when we tugged it from the Lexus barge, it's still covered in crap. The car was in storage for a while, and i suspect rats were living on the engine. They didnt do the engine any good.
Thankfully it's all quite superficial, and a few minutes with a wire brush on the drill brought the metal up quite nice.
The only downside is that we are probably going to end up rebuilding everything but the block. Will probably get a full gasket set and do the sump while we are at it.
Little tip for anyone thinking about doing this or similar - i got a roll of masking tape and a sharpie marker and tagged every cable connector (and some of the plumbing) when i pulled the loom off the engine. There is a lot on this engine, so it seemed like a good idea.
Next step will be removing the intake manifold and the heads and getting everything cleaned up and new gaskets between everything.
Stay tuned!
Chris (and Pat somewhere)
Thankfully it's all quite superficial, and a few minutes with a wire brush on the drill brought the metal up quite nice.
The only downside is that we are probably going to end up rebuilding everything but the block. Will probably get a full gasket set and do the sump while we are at it.
Little tip for anyone thinking about doing this or similar - i got a roll of masking tape and a sharpie marker and tagged every cable connector (and some of the plumbing) when i pulled the loom off the engine. There is a lot on this engine, so it seemed like a good idea.
Next step will be removing the intake manifold and the heads and getting everything cleaned up and new gaskets between everything.
Stay tuned!
Chris (and Pat somewhere)
Well, what started out as an engine swap has now pretty much turned into a top end rebuild.
We kind of knew we had to do the head gaskets, but the cleanup of the various bits in the process has taken quite a few man hours.
Still havent got the heads off, will probably wait for Pat this weekend as he doesnt want to be left out!
Project is still fairly on target, the only bits left to sort are the flywheel / clutch combo and a set of plug leads.
We will probably get the MR2 engine out this weekend and then try and get someone to welf~fill and re-drill it.
More to follow (hopefully!)
Chris (& Pat!)
We kind of knew we had to do the head gaskets, but the cleanup of the various bits in the process has taken quite a few man hours.
Still havent got the heads off, will probably wait for Pat this weekend as he doesnt want to be left out!
Project is still fairly on target, the only bits left to sort are the flywheel / clutch combo and a set of plug leads.
We will probably get the MR2 engine out this weekend and then try and get someone to welf~fill and re-drill it.
More to follow (hopefully!)
Chris (& Pat!)
Well after some fighting the engine is out. Looks like it's sold already which will help further offset the V6 upgrade bill!
Took a bit of video before we pulled it:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuX5a7tEx8Q
)
Took a bit of video before we pulled it:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuX5a7tEx8Q
)Golly,
Just seen how long it has been since i updated this thread! Xmas was a bit slow (it was a tad cold in my garage) but we have kept going.
The engine was stripped down to the short block:-
Heads cleaned up and skimmed:-
Engine rebuilt:-
Modified flywheel fitted:-
Next jobs are to fit the clutch, mate the gearbox up, refit the loom and then hoof it back in the JapScrap!
More soon!
(In case anyone is watching!)
Chris & Pat
Just seen how long it has been since i updated this thread! Xmas was a bit slow (it was a tad cold in my garage) but we have kept going.
The engine was stripped down to the short block:-
Heads cleaned up and skimmed:-
Engine rebuilt:-
Modified flywheel fitted:-
Next jobs are to fit the clutch, mate the gearbox up, refit the loom and then hoof it back in the JapScrap!
More soon!
(In case anyone is watching!)
Chris & Pat
6potdave said:
Excellent work mate, would love to do this conversion on mine, love a 6 pot engine thus the name!
Do it amigo.At present the bill is still under £500 - we have been buying carefully and selling off what we dont need from the donor car and the MR2.
A bit more shopping around / calling in some favours would probably bring that figure down some more.
Fingers crossed for the big start, wont be long now!
c.
6potdave said:
But you have the skills mate!
Erm, not really!I'm no expert at this, but if youre good with your hands / a bit practical and you can read instructions how hard can it be? TwoBrutal has been a fab source of help and information.
And lets not kid ourselves - there are more stupid people than you or I that have done this kind of thing succesfully!
Chris.
MrBrightSi said:
At one point I wanted a mk2 mr2, then I saw this website that did the conversion. The video on there of a v6 mr2 had me obsessed. Glad to see you following through where I just dreamt. Look forward to seeing more.
Yep, that's twobrutal! Those guys are a) nuts and b) staggeringly helpful!Paul Woods motorsport will also convert your bog standard MR2 to a V6 for under £3000 and to be honest they make a spiffing job.
If Pats MR2 turns out anywhere near as good we will be giddy!
Chris
Or888t said:
What type of bhp will it achieve?
What type of performance do these have?
Hope you don't think mind me asking, instead of researching it myself.
Genuinly interested.
Hi, no course I don't mind.What type of performance do these have?
Hope you don't think mind me asking, instead of researching it myself.Genuinly interested.
The standard engine we are using knocks out about 185bhp but with a couple of simple mods you can get it to 200bhp or so they say. Others fit superchargers or twin turbos, I guess a lot depends on how rich / brave you are feeling.
The main things that caught my eye are the torque and the noise. Being a V6 there is lots of low end grunt and with the right exhaust they sound superb.
Check out V6MR2 on YouTube!
Chris
Hello PH'ers!
Well, after some wrangling with the odd bolt and bit of plumbing here and there, the engine was finally rebuilt:-
And fitted:-
Wiring completed thanks to a guide written by the fabulous Mr Paul Woods of Woodsport - http://www.woodsport.org :-
Best of all is that it ran first attempt! My little brother was made up!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlkpv5RQI_E
We now have some finishing off to do, tidying up the coolant pipes, the fuel feed and return, and a couple of other jobs. Exhaust to sort but thanks to a very generous person we kindly have somthing in place for that. Might be a tad noisy....
I have to say that without the help, advice, parts, tips and support from the guys on the TwoBrutal forum - www.twobrutal.co.uk - this would have been much harder.
If you own and MR2, and you are not a member of that forum, you are missing out!
I will add to this thread once the car is all put back together.
Summertime here we come!
Chris & Pat
Well, after some wrangling with the odd bolt and bit of plumbing here and there, the engine was finally rebuilt:-
And fitted:-
Wiring completed thanks to a guide written by the fabulous Mr Paul Woods of Woodsport - http://www.woodsport.org :-
Best of all is that it ran first attempt! My little brother was made up!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlkpv5RQI_E
We now have some finishing off to do, tidying up the coolant pipes, the fuel feed and return, and a couple of other jobs. Exhaust to sort but thanks to a very generous person we kindly have somthing in place for that. Might be a tad noisy....
I have to say that without the help, advice, parts, tips and support from the guys on the TwoBrutal forum - www.twobrutal.co.uk - this would have been much harder.
If you own and MR2, and you are not a member of that forum, you are missing out!
I will add to this thread once the car is all put back together.
Summertime here we come!
Chris & Pat
Sorry i am rubbish at updating things!
We sorted some engine mounts properly (polybush to stop it jumping about):-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJq1IBJqvA4
And tidied up some other stuff in the engine bay:-
Made an exhaust front section from an assortment of bits:-
Acquired a tasty back box:-
And a suitably silly spoiler:-
Put the whole lot back together and drove it out of the garage!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wPbfgscHlY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwT2SYBAEF0
Needless to say he is quite please with his "new" car!
My brother has a bit more time on his hands so we trailered it down to his house in South Wales so he could finish off a few snagging jobs and get the MOT sorted.
The MOT is now done and the car is on the road. I will try and get a video from him of it in action propper!
The total spend stands at just over £500 for the build, thanks to yet more careful buying and selling (of surplus bits) and some very generous members on the Two Brutal website.
If you are into your MR2's and you havent seen the forum, go there now:-
www.twobrutal.co.uk
So there you go. Car completed. There is one downside however....
Pat got the car taxed for the 1st May, got up on that lovely sunday morning, went to the loacl petrol station and put £40 of petrol in because the light was on. By the end of the day he had done 75 miles hoofing around and taking the car to show people. When he got back home the petrol light was on. He reckons he managed about 14mpg.... Not the most eco car ever. I think it needs tuning / a rolling road session etc to set it up properly, because we literally threw this car together!
Anyway, i will try and get Pat to upload a video when he gets a minute, but if anyone has any specific questions, please PM me.
Now go buy and MR2 and get building!
Chris
www.twobrutal.co.uk - "cdwood2010"
We sorted some engine mounts properly (polybush to stop it jumping about):-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJq1IBJqvA4
And tidied up some other stuff in the engine bay:-
Made an exhaust front section from an assortment of bits:-
Acquired a tasty back box:-
And a suitably silly spoiler:-
Put the whole lot back together and drove it out of the garage!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wPbfgscHlY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwT2SYBAEF0
Needless to say he is quite please with his "new" car!
My brother has a bit more time on his hands so we trailered it down to his house in South Wales so he could finish off a few snagging jobs and get the MOT sorted.
The MOT is now done and the car is on the road. I will try and get a video from him of it in action propper!
The total spend stands at just over £500 for the build, thanks to yet more careful buying and selling (of surplus bits) and some very generous members on the Two Brutal website.
If you are into your MR2's and you havent seen the forum, go there now:-
www.twobrutal.co.uk
So there you go. Car completed. There is one downside however....
Pat got the car taxed for the 1st May, got up on that lovely sunday morning, went to the loacl petrol station and put £40 of petrol in because the light was on. By the end of the day he had done 75 miles hoofing around and taking the car to show people. When he got back home the petrol light was on. He reckons he managed about 14mpg.... Not the most eco car ever. I think it needs tuning / a rolling road session etc to set it up properly, because we literally threw this car together!
Anyway, i will try and get Pat to upload a video when he gets a minute, but if anyone has any specific questions, please PM me.
Now go buy and MR2 and get building!
Chris
www.twobrutal.co.uk - "cdwood2010"
Edited by CDWood on Sunday 8th May 00:18
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