A bit of help needed re: GT3
Discussion
I found myself looking around the local Porsche dealership today, in particularly at a 53 plate GT3 (priced @ £ 66,000).
Sat there having a word with one of the sales guys re finance options, as originally I was intending to put £ 16,000, which worked out at 24 payments of around £ 875 & a final balloon of £ 37,000.
However, he suggested that the most common way would be to put 10% deposit down & finance it over 4 years, this would increase monthly payments to £ 967 with a final balloon of £ 30,370.
Now, I would only expect to keep the car a couple of years, hence my original 24 months plan, and wondered it what he said was correct, i.e, 48 months would still be probably better as I would still be able to get rid of it in 2 years, and not be stung for the additional interest I would pay if I did keep it 4 years (i.e £74,000 or £83,000 in total).
Is it just me, or is something not right ?
Oh, and how easy would a GT3 be to live with as an everyday car ?
The reason for looking at that particular model was, the 997 looks at tad dull, can't afford a GT2 (or at least if anything went wrong with it), and as much as I like the Turbo (how fast is Rods), it all seems a little too easy in it.
Thoughts ?
Sat there having a word with one of the sales guys re finance options, as originally I was intending to put £ 16,000, which worked out at 24 payments of around £ 875 & a final balloon of £ 37,000.
However, he suggested that the most common way would be to put 10% deposit down & finance it over 4 years, this would increase monthly payments to £ 967 with a final balloon of £ 30,370.
Now, I would only expect to keep the car a couple of years, hence my original 24 months plan, and wondered it what he said was correct, i.e, 48 months would still be probably better as I would still be able to get rid of it in 2 years, and not be stung for the additional interest I would pay if I did keep it 4 years (i.e £74,000 or £83,000 in total).
Is it just me, or is something not right ?
Oh, and how easy would a GT3 be to live with as an everyday car ?
The reason for looking at that particular model was, the 997 looks at tad dull, can't afford a GT2 (or at least if anything went wrong with it), and as much as I like the Turbo (how fast is Rods), it all seems a little too easy in it.
Thoughts ?
I'd look carefully at the exit payments and how the loan works. Normally if you pay a loan off over a longer period you pay more interest, one reason being that the amount you owe reduces more slowly.
If you can afford payments over 24 months go for that.
Also...don't forget that the sales value of the car in 2 years forms an important part. You may find it is worth alot less.
Also selling a car with finance outstanding is always a problem...ud probably have to settle before.
If you can afford payments over 24 months go for that.
Also...don't forget that the sales value of the car in 2 years forms an important part. You may find it is worth alot less.
Also selling a car with finance outstanding is always a problem...ud probably have to settle before.
From what they were saying, if I exited early, the most I would/could be stung for is 2 months interest, hence why they said it would not be a problem.
With regards to selling the car with finance outstanding, surely whoever buys it can write 2 cheques, ie, one to the finance company to cover the amount owed & the remainder to the seller, ie me ? Does not not work like that (never done it before) ?
With regards to selling the car with finance outstanding, surely whoever buys it can write 2 cheques, ie, one to the finance company to cover the amount owed & the remainder to the seller, ie me ? Does not not work like that (never done it before) ?
Hobo, I would shop around some independent finance brokers for a more flexible deal. Some schemes allow variable capital payments each month and early redemption without a huge penalty as you only pay interest on the outstanding capital balance each month. Most decent finance brokers who specialise in car finance will be able to advise and unless the dealer is giving you an incentive for the finance commission he's earning from the deal then I would look around.
As for selling a car with finance, that should not pose a problem as its simply a case of you the Seller paying any outstanding finance on the day of the transfer as part of the purchase consideration - fairly normal practise with cars of this value.
In standard trim the GT3 is perfectly usable though ultimately you will have to keep an eye on the overall mileage compared to a T4 or C4S, for sheer driving experience it is outstanding.
A perfect choice, assuming it is Speed yellow naturally
As for selling a car with finance, that should not pose a problem as its simply a case of you the Seller paying any outstanding finance on the day of the transfer as part of the purchase consideration - fairly normal practise with cars of this value.
In standard trim the GT3 is perfectly usable though ultimately you will have to keep an eye on the overall mileage compared to a T4 or C4S, for sheer driving experience it is outstanding.
A perfect choice, assuming it is Speed yellow naturally
Obviously I will go through the paper more thoroughly, as today was only a quick 15 minute chat, but he did say I would not be stung for the total interest, only 2 months (should I sell early).
Whats rule 78 ?
The car I was looking at silver (how dull), although told him I wasn't interested in that one. Personally, would be going for, 1st choice Red, 2nd choice Black. As much as I love the yellow ones, I don't think I could bring myself to drive one every day.
Whats rule 78 ?
The car I was looking at silver (how dull), although told him I wasn't interested in that one. Personally, would be going for, 1st choice Red, 2nd choice Black. As much as I love the yellow ones, I don't think I could bring myself to drive one every day.
Come on guys, help me out here.
Other thing, what spec. should I be looking for in particular, the car in question had these:
18-inch GT3 wheel
Aerokit Boxster II / Aerokit Cup II
Alarm system (435 Mhz)
Aluminium-coloured instrument dials
Automatic air conditioning
CD storage
Coloured seat belts, Guards Red
Front section of centre console
Headlight pack including cleaning system
On-board computer
Porsche CDR 23 radio
Porsche Crest embossed on head restraints
Rear axle differential lock
Six-speed manual gearbox
Sports seats combined with leather package
Wheel centre set
Windscreen with green top tint
Without rear window wiper
Without sliding/tilting sunroof
Would love the bucket seats, but suspect they would end up causing more hassle than they are worth (with it being used every day). Or am I wrong ?
>> Edited by hobo on Wednesday 23 March 06:48
Other thing, what spec. should I be looking for in particular, the car in question had these:
18-inch GT3 wheel
Aerokit Boxster II / Aerokit Cup II
Alarm system (435 Mhz)
Aluminium-coloured instrument dials
Automatic air conditioning
CD storage
Coloured seat belts, Guards Red
Front section of centre console
Headlight pack including cleaning system
On-board computer
Porsche CDR 23 radio
Porsche Crest embossed on head restraints
Rear axle differential lock
Six-speed manual gearbox
Sports seats combined with leather package
Wheel centre set
Windscreen with green top tint
Without rear window wiper
Without sliding/tilting sunroof
Would love the bucket seats, but suspect they would end up causing more hassle than they are worth (with it being used every day). Or am I wrong ?
>> Edited by hobo on Wednesday 23 March 06:48
Hi Mark
Good to meet you on Sunday at v-max.
I remember Rods looked at GT3's before buying the turbo, it may be worth talking to him about his opinions on both.
From reading previous threads on here (you could search for them) opinions are split between the GT3 been ok for an everyday driver. It would be a blast on the road; it is prob the most pure model in the 996 range. A turbo would be a more civilised companion day to day, and yes it is a 'softer' option, but believe me you still need to show it a lot of respect!
Maybe your best bet is to drive them both. If track days are going to be your thing too, the GT3 is 100% the way to go.
Don't discount the GT2 though; OPC's are selling them for similar money to the GT3 you are considering. The Bristol OPC has a 2003 model with 11K miles on for £70K. Sure they will use more juice and go through tyres quicker, but any unforeseen repairs should be taken care of by the official warranty. Just remember to swap the brakes for conventional steel discs and normal pads and save the ceramic brakes to refit come resale time.
Hope this helps.
Martyn.
Good to meet you on Sunday at v-max.
I remember Rods looked at GT3's before buying the turbo, it may be worth talking to him about his opinions on both.
From reading previous threads on here (you could search for them) opinions are split between the GT3 been ok for an everyday driver. It would be a blast on the road; it is prob the most pure model in the 996 range. A turbo would be a more civilised companion day to day, and yes it is a 'softer' option, but believe me you still need to show it a lot of respect!
Maybe your best bet is to drive them both. If track days are going to be your thing too, the GT3 is 100% the way to go.
Don't discount the GT2 though; OPC's are selling them for similar money to the GT3 you are considering. The Bristol OPC has a 2003 model with 11K miles on for £70K. Sure they will use more juice and go through tyres quicker, but any unforeseen repairs should be taken care of by the official warranty. Just remember to swap the brakes for conventional steel discs and normal pads and save the ceramic brakes to refit come resale time.
Hope this helps.
Martyn.
Cheers Martyn, hopefully meet again soon.
Didn't hang around until the end at Vmax as my mate was bored. Think I will definatley be going alone to the next one as I found myself not driving that much so as not to leave him.
Probably should hav stayed away full stop as it might end up costing me
For the money, as you say, I could pretty much get any model, the problem with the GT2 is that I would be scared of the repair costs, etc, should anything go wrong, and also not having driven cars with that much power before, may be a bit early yet. I'm going to test drive a Turbo & a GT3 back to back, and see what I think. Just like the idea of the GT3, like the T350 but more power, better control & improved reliability.
Only other foreseeable problem, is turning up to clients in a circa 65k car, not great in my industry (can only just get away with the TVR).
Other half wants me to swap for the porsche as long as its yellow
Didn't hang around until the end at Vmax as my mate was bored. Think I will definatley be going alone to the next one as I found myself not driving that much so as not to leave him.
Probably should hav stayed away full stop as it might end up costing me
For the money, as you say, I could pretty much get any model, the problem with the GT2 is that I would be scared of the repair costs, etc, should anything go wrong, and also not having driven cars with that much power before, may be a bit early yet. I'm going to test drive a Turbo & a GT3 back to back, and see what I think. Just like the idea of the GT3, like the T350 but more power, better control & improved reliability.
Only other foreseeable problem, is turning up to clients in a circa 65k car, not great in my industry (can only just get away with the TVR).
Other half wants me to swap for the porsche as long as its yellow
Hi Hobo,
Obviously any Porsche is a good bet! I agree with Martyn though.....the 996 GT2 is THE bargain of the moment and with an official Porsche warranty for the first year and £800 for subsequent years, you will be protected against major problems. I also notice it is your "fantasy car" on your profile.....what are you waiting for?!! You may not get another chance....do it now!!
I was shocked at the figures you quote for finance. The monthly payments over 2 years add up to 21 grand, the deposit is 16 grand....that's a total of 37 grand over 2 years.....then you walk away from the car.
Having lost 37 grand.
Man oh man. I didn't pay much more than that for my 993 RS which will never lose money. So in a period of 2 years, you could own a 993 RS outright!!
At least if you went for a GT2 it shouldn't lose too much more money in its whole life. You will also have your fantasy car. Or I would wait a year until the GT3 mk2 has depreciated even more and buy one for 55 grand. You wouldn't lose much after that.
Obviously any Porsche is a good bet! I agree with Martyn though.....the 996 GT2 is THE bargain of the moment and with an official Porsche warranty for the first year and £800 for subsequent years, you will be protected against major problems. I also notice it is your "fantasy car" on your profile.....what are you waiting for?!! You may not get another chance....do it now!!
I was shocked at the figures you quote for finance. The monthly payments over 2 years add up to 21 grand, the deposit is 16 grand....that's a total of 37 grand over 2 years.....then you walk away from the car.
Having lost 37 grand.
Man oh man. I didn't pay much more than that for my 993 RS which will never lose money. So in a period of 2 years, you could own a 993 RS outright!!
At least if you went for a GT2 it shouldn't lose too much more money in its whole life. You will also have your fantasy car. Or I would wait a year until the GT3 mk2 has depreciated even more and buy one for 55 grand. You wouldn't lose much after that.
johnny senna said:
I was shocked at the figures you quote for finance. The monthly payments over 2 years add up to 21 grand, the deposit is 16 grand....that's a total of 37 grand over 2 years.....then you walk away from the car.
Having lost 37 grand.
Not quite, the final balloon to pay would be less than the value of the car, i.e £37k whereas what would be car be worth ? 50k still ? So, in theory I would lose nearer 25k in 2 years.
Stop talking me out of it
I think I'm a bit scared of a GT2
Hobo
My 0.02:
Losing value on a car is often quoted as something you can't do anything about. With Porsche cars, that isn't neccessarily the case.
But as with all things, it all depends no how disposable the cash is to you.
I bought a mark 1 GT3 (LHD) on the basis that firstly, its the car i really wanted - but beyond that, choosing between Mk1, Mk2, RS, I went for Mk1 (partly because i found the drive more forgiving for a relative novice like me) because it will depreciate least of the cars under consideration. I reckon LHD GT3 will bottom out at around £40k. RHD say £45k. Mk2 probably around £8k more.
Prices of LHD 964RS are early 30s, 993RS early to mid 40s. These may provide some sort of floor for the GT cars - although individual cars will have their own prices. Not sure if we'll ever see a '73RS style market of their own for any of these cars where its worth more than most of the above.
In turn, the 964RS, 993RS, GT3mk1, GT3mk2, poss. GT3RS will act as a support level below which one can't see GT2 prices going.
The conclusion being that if one assumes GT3mk2 to bottom out circa £53k, RS circa £63k then thats what GT2 could be worth looking out over time.
Just imho of course.
Cheers
Ajit.
My 0.02:
Losing value on a car is often quoted as something you can't do anything about. With Porsche cars, that isn't neccessarily the case.
But as with all things, it all depends no how disposable the cash is to you.
I bought a mark 1 GT3 (LHD) on the basis that firstly, its the car i really wanted - but beyond that, choosing between Mk1, Mk2, RS, I went for Mk1 (partly because i found the drive more forgiving for a relative novice like me) because it will depreciate least of the cars under consideration. I reckon LHD GT3 will bottom out at around £40k. RHD say £45k. Mk2 probably around £8k more.
Prices of LHD 964RS are early 30s, 993RS early to mid 40s. These may provide some sort of floor for the GT cars - although individual cars will have their own prices. Not sure if we'll ever see a '73RS style market of their own for any of these cars where its worth more than most of the above.
In turn, the 964RS, 993RS, GT3mk1, GT3mk2, poss. GT3RS will act as a support level below which one can't see GT2 prices going.
The conclusion being that if one assumes GT3mk2 to bottom out circa £53k, RS circa £63k then thats what GT2 could be worth looking out over time.
Just imho of course.
Cheers
Ajit.
hobo said:
I was shocked at the figures you quote for finance. The monthly payments over 2 years add up to 21 grand, the deposit is 16 grand....that's a total of 37 grand over 2 years.....then you walk away from the car.
Having lost 37 grand.
Not quite, the final balloon to pay would be less than the value of the car, i.e £37k whereas what would be car be worth ? 50k still ? So, in theory I would lose nearer 25k in 2 years.
Stop talking me out of it
I think I'm a bit scared of a GT2
Ah right, I see....I don't really understand balloons etc.
However, I don't want to talk you out of buying a Porsche, quite the opposite! I don't think you can go wrong with any of the cars we have mentioned.
I know what you're saying about driving an older LHD car, but honestly couldn't do it, I like my newer cars & also being able to see when overtaking
With regards to the finance, maybe thats why the 4 year option makes more sense. In total you are payment 83k but the car has found its 'level' circa 50k & there I would 'only' be loosing 33k in 4 years, as opposed to the 27k doing it the 2 year way.
Hmm. Need to look into this a bit more me thinks.
Anyone know the ride height of a GT3 ? The T350 is 100mm, and although you do have to go slowly over speed bumps, its not a huge problem for where I mainly go.
With regards to the finance, maybe thats why the 4 year option makes more sense. In total you are payment 83k but the car has found its 'level' circa 50k & there I would 'only' be loosing 33k in 4 years, as opposed to the 27k doing it the 2 year way.
Hmm. Need to look into this a bit more me thinks.
Anyone know the ride height of a GT3 ? The T350 is 100mm, and although you do have to go slowly over speed bumps, its not a huge problem for where I mainly go.
Haggle with the dealer on price as well or look about for a dealer who will haggle. Dealers are currently paying 55k - 57.5k for 04 GT3's although the forecourt prices don't seem to relect this. Also quite a few dealers seem to have too many cars and a couple I've spoken to have cars 'they are trying to get out of'.
Jim
Jim
Most GT3's in dealers, for 53 or 04, seem to be circa 67k. I ask my dealer what the chances of getting a red or yellow one in was, and he said they didn't want any more in at the moment, so unlikely.
So, 67k asking price, what would you expect to get it for ? Do Porsche 'move' much ?
So, 67k asking price, what would you expect to get it for ? Do Porsche 'move' much ?
Put it this way at that price they probably have 8-10k in it for themselves. This is in a car that they will have had to do bugger all to other than valet it to put it in the showroom (a lot of the cars are almost 'new' with less than 3k and still well witihin the warranty period).
Also, don't subscribe to the view that GT3 prices will level out ala RS prices. In the past the RS models were special and produced in restricted numbers. Now the GT3 is more or less part of the standard model lineup. When the 997GT3 appears and starts selling in numbers that will have quite a marked affect on the price of 996 GT3 prices, both Mk1 and M2. Then you'll have the 99xGT3 following that putting pressure on 997GT3 prices and son on down the line.
Jim
Also, don't subscribe to the view that GT3 prices will level out ala RS prices. In the past the RS models were special and produced in restricted numbers. Now the GT3 is more or less part of the standard model lineup. When the 997GT3 appears and starts selling in numbers that will have quite a marked affect on the price of 996 GT3 prices, both Mk1 and M2. Then you'll have the 99xGT3 following that putting pressure on 997GT3 prices and son on down the line.
Jim
I looked into Porsche finance when I bought my GT3 but decided against it.
It is on a balanced payments basis. This means that even though your monthly payments are fixed, an adjustment is made at the end of the term to take account of any interest rate moves during the period of finance - so if interest rates go up in the next few years (who knows?) you may be stung. I'd suggest using another Finance House with fixed interest (eg. Premier Finance) if you want to go this route.
Craig
It is on a balanced payments basis. This means that even though your monthly payments are fixed, an adjustment is made at the end of the term to take account of any interest rate moves during the period of finance - so if interest rates go up in the next few years (who knows?) you may be stung. I'd suggest using another Finance House with fixed interest (eg. Premier Finance) if you want to go this route.
Craig
Does anyone have figures of how many GT3's have been produced. Vaguely recall reading somewhere that 996's have been produced in very much larger numbers than any previous 911 incarnation. This may also partly explain why 996 prices are generally lower than 993 for instance. OK I'm hoping for a GT3 at 964RS money... 
We have a red 53 plate GT3 with just 1700 miles on the clock, black interior with carbon pack. This is a damaged car that the original owner refused to have repaired due to a new-for-old policy, going through the bodyshop at the moment and will come out as new in a few weeks time. Depending on spec we will be selling this for around £55k although there is an option to build it as a red RS replica with black wheels/decals & all the right parts for slightly more.
So you can have a new GT3 for a lot less that the £67-70K dealer price, but don't come down asking me about finance, ok?
So you can have a new GT3 for a lot less that the £67-70K dealer price, but don't come down asking me about finance, ok?
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