Warranty claim on brake discs?

[singh911]

The front discs on my GT3 have cracks that are about to join up (Mk1 car, std discs, pagid rs29 pads). I've done a few trackdays and know that discs are regarded as a consumable. I am about to replace with the same again or maybe floating discs.

I wondered whether anyone has had any success in getting a warranty claim for the discs. The car is meant to be a track focused car so the brakes should be up to it - which they are in stopping terms but the discs need changing due to cracks - they're not worn out, just cracked. I do strict warm up and cool down laps and the car has extra cooling ducts onto the discs.

I think its trying it on a bit but thought i'd check anyway.

Cheers

Ajit.

[trig]

Ajit, no chance mate!

Even the guys with the PCCB's get no where.

[dazren]

You won't get anywhere with a warranty claim.

Maybe worth looking at grooved/slotted discs. There are a few people on this forum with modified discs on Gt3/2 and turbos.

DAZ

>> Edited by dazren on Sunday 25th December 16:52

[Merritt]

singh911 said:

The front discs on my GT3 have cracks that are about to join up (Mk1 car, std discs, pagid rs29 pads). I've done a few trackdays and know that discs are regarded as a consumable. I am about to replace with the same again or maybe floating discs. I wondered whether anyone has had any success in getting a warranty claim for the discs. The car is meant to be a track focused car so the brakes should be up to it - which they are in stopping terms but the discs need changing due to cracks - they're not worn out, just cracked. I do strict warm up and cool down laps and the car has extra cooling ducts onto the discs. I think its trying it on a bit but thought i'd check anyway. Cheers Ajit.

Hi Ajit,

IF you manage to get the discs changed it will be classified as a 'Gesture of Goodwill' i.e. not a warranty job. I explored this to the Nth degree after I had bought my MkII and the discs were eventually replaced because they had apparently 'forgotten' to do the 111 point check. To be honest I don't really care what excuse they cover it up with - they did replace them but i had only just bought the car (i.e. 3 weeks before). By then I had swapped them for the the Brembo floaters anyway so I am keeping them warm in my cupboard just in case I decide to sell the car....

If you are planning to track the car - don't bother putting the drilled discs back on, they will only crack again. There is now a fair few of us using either the Brembos or Alcons and they are lasting a lot longer which offsets the nasty shock of the initial cost!

Cheers
Steve

[singh911]

Steve

The floaters was my next query.

I've been quite impressed with how the standard discs have lasted - 8000 miles including 9 trackdays over the last 11 months.

Whats the deal with the floaters - do they last longer and/or better braking and/or cheaper to replace?

How much do they rattle if at all when cold.

cheers

Ajit

[jcosh]

singh911 said:

Steve The floaters was my next query. I've been quite impressed with how the standard discs have lasted - 8000 miles including 9 trackdays over the last 11 months. Whats the deal with the floaters - do they last longer and/or better braking and/or cheaper to replace? How much do they rattle if at all when cold. cheers Ajit

Hi

Forget about a claim on your well used discs. I changed mine on the RS after 4 track days. The Brembo's then replaced them and were still going stronge when I sold the car after a further 10 track days. The RS29's lasted all this time and were only changed prior to selling the car.

In the recent Brit car 24hr race at Silverstone Parr ran a car on one set of Brembo's without the need to change disc during the race.

The only down side is the rattle when cold on the road. JZ now have a Alcon option that is rattle free. That's what i would buy if I were you.

Cheers Jonathan

[Merritt]

jcosh said:

singh911 said: Steve The floaters was my next query. I've been quite impressed with how the standard discs have lasted - 8000 miles including 9 trackdays over the last 11 months. Whats the deal with the floaters - do they last longer and/or better braking and/or cheaper to replace? How much do they rattle if at all when cold. cheers Ajit Hi Forget about a claim on your well used discs. I changed mine on the RS after 4 track days. The Brembo's then replaced them and were still going stronge when I sold the car after a further 10 track days. The RS29's lasted all this time and were only changed prior to selling the car. In the recent Brit car 24hr race at Silverstone Parr ran a car on one set of Brembo's without the need to change disc during the race. The only down side is the rattle when cold on the road. JZ now have a Alcon option that is rattle free. That's what i would buy if I were you. Cheers Jonathan

I agree with everything Jonathan has said. The only other point to add is that when you finally do need to replace the discs, you only need to replace the outer 'disc material' and you keep your existing bells. This makes the renewal cost a lot lower.

Regarding the rattles - I have recently discovered that they rattle a lot less if you put the shims back in after you have worn the RS29s down a little. (the shims don't fit when the pads are brand new). You can still hear them but they are MUCH quieter than they are without them in place.

As for the Alcons - ive not heard the new ones on the road but they are meant to be quieter... with that said, they are also more expensive so its your call..

Cheers


Steve

[GuyR]

I have the new Alcons front and rear on my GT2 from JZ Machtech (360mm front and 350mm rear). I have yet to use them on track, given the weather, but in a couple of hundred road miles, they have yet to rattle at all. The Brembo equippped car I drove recently however sounded like a cement-mixer filled with nails and would drive me mad!

Guy

[willr]

I can understand why people are interested in getting better brakes and both Alcon and Brembo have a lot of motorsport experience. But what provenance do they have fitting these enhancements to road-going cars?
Doesn't it take quite a lot of development to get a disc/pad and brake balance combination that is satisfactory on road and also good for track use?

[paulburrell]

Will

Proof of the pudding, as they say, is in the eating. Just ask the owners who track their GT3's and GT3 RS's what difference using Alcon/Brembo discs and top notch pagid pads make over the OPC OEquipment, both on the road and on the track. IMHO Porsche stuff is good but is found seriously wanting on the track. Whats more their parts pricing is crazy, paricularly when you look at the egineering quality of the Alcon/Brembo's.

Steve

[willr]

Not doubting that these can be great on track - just wondering if they are really worth it for road-biased driving.
Also remember an old shoot-out between different 996turbos where the standard Porsche setup returned top and third place braking efficiency, with others running 8-piston Brembos in various configurations... So just buying some big brakes doesn't necessarily improve things.

How much do GT3-sized Alcon or Brembo discs cost to replace?
OEM front discs at around £165 each don't seem too expensive...

[singh911]

One further complication I've learned - i need to convert to a six pot setup before i can go the alcon/brembo route. May just replace with oem at £300 for now; i think the six pot plus alcon/brembo is likely to be around £2k? If anyone's done the whole conversion, I'd be really interested in how much it cost.

Cheers

Ajit.

[Merritt]

willr said:

How much do GT3-sized Alcon or Brembo discs cost to replace? OEM front discs at around £165 each don't seem too expensive...

Lol - I wish... the Standard OEM drilled discs from Porsche are £1000 per pair for the fronts before discount. With club discount you can get them for just short of £900 per pair. You can buy the GT3 cup discs which are very similar but slightly (1mm) thinner so they are already half way through their wear life however they are 'ONLY' £500 per pair!

Some guys using the standard front discs found that they were cracking in a very short time scale (<4 track days) whereas others were getting more out of them. I changed mine purely because I didn't want the cracking problem to reoccur. My Brembos were almost the same price as the OEM discs so it was a no brainer for me!

Cheers

Steve

[Merritt]

GuyR said:

I have the new Alcons front and rear on my GT2 from JZ Machtech (360mm front and 350mm rear). I have yet to use them on track, given the weather, but in a couple of hundred road miles, they have yet to rattle at all. The Brembo equippped car I drove recently however sounded like a cement-mixer filled with nails and would drive me mad! Guy

Guy - are they as quiet as the standard discs then??

Cheers

Steve

[GuyR]

Merritt said:

GuyR said: I have the new Alcons front and rear on my GT2 from JZ Machtech (360mm front and 350mm rear). I have yet to use them on track, given the weather, but in a couple of hundred road miles, they have yet to rattle at all. The Brembo equippped car I drove recently however sounded like a cement-mixer filled with nails and would drive me mad! Guy Guy - are they as quiet as the standard discs then?? Cheers Steve

So far I've been amazed how quiet they are, they are hardly any different to the standard discs. I would need to do some really hard-driving (trackdays or top speed runs) to be sure, but I only had them fitted a couple of weeks ago and obviously the weather negates that happening yet.

[willr]

Merritt said:

Lol - I wish... the Standard OEM drilled discs from Porsche are £1000 per pair for the fronts before discount. ... Some guys using the standard front discs found that they were cracking in a very short time scale (<4 track days) whereas others were getting more out of them. I changed mine purely because I didn't want the cracking problem to reoccur. My Brembos were almost the same price as the OEM discs so it was a no brainer for me!

Thanks for the info about the Brembos.

www.design911.co.uk/index.htm?Region=UK
ID99635140991X 996 BRAKE DISC FRONT - L OE £ 165.42

Are these not OEM discs, then?

[DanH]

willr said:

Merritt said: Lol - I wish... the Standard OEM drilled discs from Porsche are £1000 per pair for the fronts before discount. ... Some guys using the standard front discs found that they were cracking in a very short time scale (<4 track days) whereas others were getting more out of them. I changed mine purely because I didn't want the cracking problem to reoccur. My Brembos were almost the same price as the OEM discs so it was a no brainer for me! Thanks for the info about the Brembos. www.design911.co.uk/index.htm?Region=UK ID99635140991X 996 BRAKE DISC FRONT - L OE £ 165.42 Are these not OEM discs, then?

Standard 996 disks are not the same as GT3 mk2 disks which is what Steve was referring to. I don't know about GT3 mk1 sizes.

>> Edited by DanH on Wednesday 28th December 11:53

[paulburrell]

The MK2 GT3 6 pot brembo calipers use 350mm discs at about £900 the pair from Porsche. The original MK1 GT3 used 4 pot calipers and I believe 330 mm discs. The extra 20 mm of disc is made from platinum and therefore Porsche have to charge another £300 per disc for the privilege(only kidding about the platinum). I guess it's called supply and demand.

The previous owner of my MK1 had the 6 pot conversion plus 350mm Porsche discs and Pagid Black pads done at Parrs in November 2004 for £2000 inc vat.

[willr]

Dan, it's not obvious from my posting, but that line comes under the section "96 GT3 BRAKE DISC - ORIGINAL PORSCHE" on their website.
Perhaps these are only for the mk1?
The standard 996 discs are advertised at £89 each...

[DanH]

willr said:

Dan, it's not obvious from my posting, but that line comes under the section "96 GT3 BRAKE DISC - ORIGINAL PORSCHE" on their website. Perhaps these are only for the mk1? The standard 996 discs are advertised at £89 each...

Not bad value then. Not sure if I'd bother upgrading if you can use those.