911 and Porsche world GT3 review
Discussion
Mark Hales reviews it this month and doesn't seem to love it.He clearly respects the technology enormously and appreciates that it's a more comfortable road car and therefore a more rounded effort in general vs its predecessors,but he doesn't seem to really connect with it emotionally if that makes sense.lots of driver aids clearly...still didn't stop 3 journalists smashing cars during the event.
Geneve said:
Mark Hales' reviews always tend to be fairly objective rather than emotional.
Take the reviews he did of Eoin Sloan's old 911T v 2.7RS v 996 GT3 RS, last year. I thought, where's the passion? But his approach is far more analytical and factual, which can be more helpful.
Interesting you mention a review of that nature, as I think they've rehashed it for an article in this months issue discussing handling. Possibly a result of a GT3 RS that was organised for the article having to drop out at the last minute.
The most ridiculous thing on the 997 GT3 is engine drag control to protect you from locking up if you cock up a heal and toe. Perhaps the 998 GT3 will manage the steering for you
DanH said:
Mark Hales' reviews always tend to be fairly objective rather than emotional.
Take the reviews he did of Eoin Sloan's old 911T v 2.7RS v 996 GT3 RS, last year. I thought, where's the passion? But his approach is far more analytical and factual, which can be more helpful.
Interesting you mention a review of that nature, as I think they've rehashed it for an article in this months issue discussing handling. Possibly a result of a GT3 RS that was organised for the article having to drop out at the last minute.
The most ridiculous thing on the 997 GT3 is engine drag control to protect you from locking up if you cock up a heal and toe. Perhaps the 998 GT3 will manage the steering for you
The E46 M3 has had this feature for 5 years, so nothing new here.
It is simply a feature of the stability management system that can be turned off
DanH said:
Mark Hales' reviews always tend to be fairly objective rather than emotional.
Take the reviews he did of Eoin Sloan's old 911T v 2.7RS v 996 GT3 RS, last year. I thought, where's the passion? But his approach is far more analytical and factual, which can be more helpful.
The most ridiculous thing on the 997 GT3 is engine drag control to protect you from locking up if you cock up a heal and toe. Perhaps the 998 GT3 will manage the steering for you
There you go again
glenn mcmenamin said:
Mark Hales' reviews always tend to be fairly objective rather than emotional.
Take the reviews he did of Eoin Sloan's old 911T v 2.7RS v 996 GT3 RS, last year. I thought, where's the passion? But his approach is far more analytical and factual, which can be more helpful.
The most ridiculous thing on the 997 GT3 is engine drag control to protect you from locking up if you cock up a heal and toe. Perhaps the 998 GT3 will manage the steering for you
There you go again
Yep its so much worse for me to mention something I find bemusing, than you to pursue some weird vendetta me on multiple forums having a go - would you please just leave it out?
>> Edited by DanH on Tuesday 18th April 21:22
Sure mate,
But to describe a clear technological advancement such as this drag control as 'ridiculous' before you have even had chance to experience its benefits or detrements is unreasonably negative (again).
I too, don't want the GT3 to evolve into a Nissan skyline type car, where the computer drives for you, anymore than you do, but that is why we change our cars, as technology makes them faster, safer and better.
If you want a pure unassisted experience, why don't you just pull your fuses that work your ABS and power steering, airbags etc etc, ????? but Mr Porsche thinks they're a good idea, and maybe, just maybe, this new one is too.
G.
P.S,
I'm sure not stalking you, but unfortunately we seem to share a passion for a similar car, albeit, from different angles.
>> Edited by glenn mcmenamin on Tuesday 18th April 22:00
But to describe a clear technological advancement such as this drag control as 'ridiculous' before you have even had chance to experience its benefits or detrements is unreasonably negative (again).
I too, don't want the GT3 to evolve into a Nissan skyline type car, where the computer drives for you, anymore than you do, but that is why we change our cars, as technology makes them faster, safer and better.
If you want a pure unassisted experience, why don't you just pull your fuses that work your ABS and power steering, airbags etc etc, ????? but Mr Porsche thinks they're a good idea, and maybe, just maybe, this new one is too.
G.
P.S,
I'm sure not stalking you, but unfortunately we seem to share a passion for a similar car, albeit, from different angles.
>> Edited by glenn mcmenamin on Tuesday 18th April 22:00
glenn mcmenamin said:
Sure mate
The only time people call someone 'mate' like that is when they are trying to start a fight! I'm sorry if we have a philosophical difference of opinion on driver aids but I'm constantly surprised that you are trying to get so personal. We are all enthusiasts so why not maintain some courtesy?
I'd not heard of drag control before that article, but it is certainly symptomatic of the dilution of the GT3 which is a crying shame. I'm more than happy to accept that I'm not the greatest driver in the world, but like that the 996 GT3 rewards deft use of the controls. Where is the incentive to perfect your heal & toe if it makes no odds because a computer will sort it out?
The new car looks stunning in the grey colour pictured in the mag though (atlas grey?). Looking forward to seeing them about.
DanH said:
Sure mate
The only time people call someone 'mate' like that is when they are trying to start a fight! I'm sorry if we have a philosophical difference of opinion on driver aids but I'm constantly surprised that you are trying to get so personal. We are all enthusiasts so why not maintain some courtesy?
I'd not heard of drag control before that article, but it is certainly symptomatic of the dilution of the GT3 which is a crying shame. I'm more than happy to accept that I'm not the greatest driver in the world, but like that the 996 GT3 rewards deft use of the controls. Where is the incentive to perfect your heal & toe if it makes no odds because a computer will sort it out?
The new car looks stunning in the grey colour pictured in the mag though (atlas grey?). Looking forward to seeing them about.
My experience of the BMW system suggests that the way the stability management sorts the clutch drag out is far from subtle, it will not stop you from wishing to deveop good controls skills.
Management systems cannot pre emptive, unlike the throttle control used in a heel and toe downshift. The system can at best react swiftly and will never complete the operation as well as the co ordinated driver.
Now if you give over the gear shifting to the computeras well the system can get it's act together, but we are someway off this position outside of F1 at present.
And even F1 cars seem to still respond to the best co ordinated drivers, ask Sato!
DanH said:
Sure mate
The only time people call someone 'mate' like that is when they are trying to start a fight! I'm sorry if we have a philosophical difference of opinion on driver aids but I'm constantly surprised that you are trying to get so personal. We are all enthusiasts so why not maintain some courtesy?
The mate bit was meant to be nothing other than a non offensive start Dan.
How you can construde that as uncourteous is a bit strange.
I never ever get personnal on forums, it's pointless, and no matter what you think, i respect all people opinions,
but only if based on some sort of previous knowledge or experience, Of which nobody has much of the forthcoming model, so
until then it's all pub talk IMHO.
G
glenn mcmenamin said:
Sure mate
The only time people call someone 'mate' like that is when they are trying to start a fight! I'm sorry if we have a philosophical difference of opinion on driver aids but I'm constantly surprised that you are trying to get so personal. We are all enthusiasts so why not maintain some courtesy?
The mate bit was meant to be nothing other than a non offensive start Dan.
How you can construde that as uncourteous is a bit strange.
I never ever get personnal on forums, it's pointless, and no matter what you think, i respect all people opinions,
but only if based on some sort of previous knowledge or experience, Of which nobody has much of the forthcoming model, so
until then it's all pub talk IMHO.
G
Different upbringings, but to call someone you've never met 'mate' was never particularly friendly where I came from!
Definitely pub talk, so no reason for anyone to get emotionally invested! I realise you've ordered one though so I'll try to tread more carefully
On another positive note, the revised gear ratios are going to be awesome.
>> Edited by DanH on Tuesday 18th April 22:53
lsp said:
Sure mate
The only time people call someone 'mate' like that is when they are trying to start a fight! I'm sorry if we have a philosophical difference of opinion on driver aids but I'm constantly surprised that you are trying to get so personal. We are all enthusiasts so why not maintain some courtesy?
I'd not heard of drag control before that article, but it is certainly symptomatic of the dilution of the GT3 which is a crying shame. I'm more than happy to accept that I'm not the greatest driver in the world, but like that the 996 GT3 rewards deft use of the controls. Where is the incentive to perfect your heal & toe if it makes no odds because a computer will sort it out?
The new car looks stunning in the grey colour pictured in the mag though (atlas grey?). Looking forward to seeing them about.
My experience of the BMW system suggests that the way the stability management sorts the clutch drag out is far from subtle, it will not stop you from wishing to deveop good controls skills.
Management systems cannot pre emptive, unlike the throttle control used in a heel and toe downshift. The system can at best react swiftly and will never complete the operation as well as the co ordinated driver.
Now if you give over the gear shifting to the computeras well the system can get it's act together, but we are someway off this position outside of F1 at present.
And even F1 cars seem to still respond to the best co ordinated drivers, ask Sato!
lol
Presumably the system will be pretty good for Porsche to bother fitting it. They seem to adopt systems later when they are proven - just look at the delay on DSG. Conversely BMW seem happy to ride the bleeding edge!
>> Edited by DanH on Tuesday 18th April 22:47
Well actually I think that things are looking a little better for the 997GT3. If the suspension IS rose jointed, that will be a leap forward. Strange, the new GT3 seems to be a car for everybody but rose joints are certainly no compromise. Great for the track but awful for the road. May be Mark H has got his knickers in a twist and it is only the bottom wishbone that is rose jointed. But if he's right, that will be great news.. for me anyway..
Steve R
Steve R
steve rance said:
Well actually I think that things are looking a little better for the 997GT3. If the suspension IS rose jointed, that will be a leap forward. Strange, the new GT3 seems to be a car for everybody but rose joints are certainly no compromise. Great for the track but awful for the road. May be Mark H has got his knickers in a twist and it is only the bottom wishbone that is rose jointed. But if he's right, that will be great news.. for me anyway..
Steve R
Do you think the change in diff lockup ratios will make much odds?
DanH said:
The most ridiculous thing on the 997 GT3 is engine drag control to protect you from locking up if you cock up a heal and toe. Perhaps the 998 GT3 will manage the steering for you
Sorry Dan, but I'm with Glenn on this one!
The point is you can turn it off completely if required, so what is the problem?
I have been driving fast cars for many years now, but I am not a racing driver, with the sort of grunt & grip the GT3 has available, it is no bad thing to have some form of safety net for our busy roads & you can switch off on track!
ChrisW. said:
And I prefer to feel that what a car is doing is down to me, and not the computer driving the car driving me.ABS and airbags of course cost nothing in control terms. But as for the rest (ex M3 CSL !) I remain to be convinced.
The point is "watch my lips" on the GT3.... YOU CAN TURN IT OFF FULLY! So what is the problem?
But I still feel on the public roads Porsches traction/stability systems are best left on as a safety net, the limits before they cut in are very high, unlike Merc & BMW systems which do rather nanny the driver..., on track of course disable away!
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