LOOKING FOR A 968 CS
Discussion
I am considering buying a 968 CS as a track day toy and as a vehicle to have some instruction in. I have looked all the way to page 19 of this forum but I can't find many 968 articles, although I do know that most of the mags rate the cars highly as track cars. However, how important is the MO30 spec and does anyone have an idea how many were built in this spec?
I have seen several advertised, but unsurprisingly the mileages are often reasonably high. Does anyone have any experience of "tracking" a high mileage car? Do they "wear their miles well" or am I also budgeting for a new set of dampers, discs etc etc?
Are their any known engine or gearbox problems with high mileage cars?
Any advice would be appreciated.
I have seen several advertised, but unsurprisingly the mileages are often reasonably high. Does anyone have any experience of "tracking" a high mileage car? Do they "wear their miles well" or am I also budgeting for a new set of dampers, discs etc etc?
Are their any known engine or gearbox problems with high mileage cars?
Any advice would be appreciated.
M030 essential really, can be repaired/rebuilt (the dampers that is)
Pinion bearing in gearbox and cams/chain/tensioner are known isuues and latter can be v expensive
Cars themselves seem to wear well on track, brakes with the right fluid and pads are amazing
The answer is to buy a 44 turbo and stick 968 M030 on it = cheaper, lighter, faster car
Pinion bearing in gearbox and cams/chain/tensioner are known isuues and latter can be v expensive
Cars themselves seem to wear well on track, brakes with the right fluid and pads are amazing
The answer is to buy a 44 turbo and stick 968 M030 on it = cheaper, lighter, faster car
High Miles really isnt an issue for the 968 and chances are a well looked after high miler will have had all the weak points seen to.
The M030 spec cars are very hard to find and bare in mind than many set ups will need repalcing anyway and there are some excellent alternatives. KW suspension is used by a lot of the 968 track cars with good results. You could then upgrade the brakes to M030 spec or stick big blacks on. I have had a ride in a CS with these upgrades and it was fantastic (it also had a LSD with helped but can be added to a standard CS also).
The head gaskets are a problem (but have been known to go on low milers too) and the Cams will need replacing at some point, both expensive jobs. Plate lift is also an issue so this is worth checking.
The most important thing is to find a good car as a base that has been well looked after and then it can be improved.
Loads of information here
www.porsche968uk.co.uk
The M030 spec cars are very hard to find and bare in mind than many set ups will need repalcing anyway and there are some excellent alternatives. KW suspension is used by a lot of the 968 track cars with good results. You could then upgrade the brakes to M030 spec or stick big blacks on. I have had a ride in a CS with these upgrades and it was fantastic (it also had a LSD with helped but can be added to a standard CS also).
The head gaskets are a problem (but have been known to go on low milers too) and the Cams will need replacing at some point, both expensive jobs. Plate lift is also an issue so this is worth checking.
The most important thing is to find a good car as a base that has been well looked after and then it can be improved.
Loads of information here
www.porsche968uk.co.uk
Edited by 968csreading on Tuesday 18th July 09:09
Edited by 968csreading on Tuesday 18th July 09:56
Calum Lockie Runs a Club Sport for tuition at Goldtrack without M030 which I thought was interested based on all the comments about it on here.
I have recently bought a 968 Club Sport as a road car more than a track car - although I am likely to partake in the latter on occasions. In my opinon M030 suspension is unbearable on the road - but great on the track.
Good cars are hard to find now, I actually searched for 7 years on and off ! Paying all the money will be worth it in the long run for a good car.
I have recently bought a 968 Club Sport as a road car more than a track car - although I am likely to partake in the latter on occasions. In my opinon M030 suspension is unbearable on the road - but great on the track.
Good cars are hard to find now, I actually searched for 7 years on and off ! Paying all the money will be worth it in the long run for a good car.
dmcrobin said:
Calum Lockie Runs a Club Sport for tuition at Goldtrack without M030 which I thought was interested based on all the comments about it on here.
I have recently bought a 968 Club Sport as a road car more than a track car - although I am likely to partake in the latter on occasions. In my opinon M030 suspension is unbearable on the road - but great on the track.
Good cars are hard to find now, I actually searched for 7 years on and off ! Paying all the money will be worth it in the long run for a good car.
I have recently bought a 968 Club Sport as a road car more than a track car - although I am likely to partake in the latter on occasions. In my opinon M030 suspension is unbearable on the road - but great on the track.
Good cars are hard to find now, I actually searched for 7 years on and off ! Paying all the money will be worth it in the long run for a good car.
Im pretty sure callum runs one with the M030 option now, not a 100% but i had a simliar conversation with the guy i bought mine off and im sure he told me callum changed it to a car with M030????
dmcrobin said:
I saw Calum on Wednesday and his car has thicker antiroll bars and a Quaife diff along with brembo fluid and 993 Turbo front discs and calipers with standard (Turbo) Pads.
Springs and dampers are standard not M030.
Springs and dampers are standard not M030.
Like i said i wasnt 100%. I didnt manage wednesday due to working a bit too long. I dont think id like being in the car o with no a/c either. Actually the guy may have been talking about the diff and not the M030
. Edited by bund on Friday 21st July 08:11
www.oakhills.co.uk/cars/stocklist.htm
pricey, especially for LHD, but it must have been on the site for over 6 months so maybe they would take an offer...
pricey, especially for LHD, but it must have been on the site for over 6 months so maybe they would take an offer...
I have a Riviera CS with 40K miles. Since buying I have added the M030 ARBs and Suspension. The brakes had already been upgraded. I have changed the belts too.
I drove the car on original suspension at the Ring and Spa before and after the upgrade to M030. LSD was fitted from new on my car.
The car was setup for the Ring and the softer suspension suited the track. However at Spa it was rolling all over the place. The M030 transformed the handling and it is very smooth on the road too. I took the car to Evian after Spa and it was superb on the Autoroute and Autobahn.
I even did advanced driver training in it in Germany. Drifting, slalom and braking tests. It performed very well. I did notice that the Germans were quicker so I bought the Transaxel Motorsport chip they all use and the car now accelerates like my RS.
I use it mainly for shopping trips now as it has loads of space so it swallows the shopping bags!
I drove the car on original suspension at the Ring and Spa before and after the upgrade to M030. LSD was fitted from new on my car.
The car was setup for the Ring and the softer suspension suited the track. However at Spa it was rolling all over the place. The M030 transformed the handling and it is very smooth on the road too. I took the car to Evian after Spa and it was superb on the Autoroute and Autobahn.
I even did advanced driver training in it in Germany. Drifting, slalom and braking tests. It performed very well. I did notice that the Germans were quicker so I bought the Transaxel Motorsport chip they all use and the car now accelerates like my RS.
I use it mainly for shopping trips now as it has loads of space so it swallows the shopping bags!
Edited by chfs911 on Friday 21st July 13:38
It looks like a lot of the right bits have been done; check to see if cams themselves have been done, water pump, PAS pump as well. These are known to be a bit dodgy on 968s.
Obviously mileage will put many off. Like it in white with red wheels, though.
At a fair price. I imagine it will go for 8.5k-9.5k. The mileage is the prob. You could probably get a decent LHD with one with half the miles for that.
Obviously mileage will put many off. Like it in white with red wheels, though.
At a fair price. I imagine it will go for 8.5k-9.5k. The mileage is the prob. You could probably get a decent LHD with one with half the miles for that.
aasc said:
>>Transaxel Motorsport chip
Do tell more!
Do tell more!
www.transaxle-sportwagen.de/tinfo/doc/home/sd.php?RT=/tinfo&DN=home
The drift boys all use them as the low end torque is superb. Need to get a rolling road o/p
chfs911 said:
It performed very well. I did notice that the Germans were quicker so I bought the Transaxel Motorsport chip they all use and the car now accelerates like my RS.
That's impressive... they don't even feel 240bhp grunty; heavier car than a 964/993 RS as well. Plus what can a chip do in isolation... 250-255bhp at max?
For me, RSs have always felt significantly faster than any 968CS, so hat's off to Transaxel.
Unless, of course, you have a Ford Escort RS Turbo for comparative purposes
chfs911 said:
it was superb on the Autoroute and Autobahn.
A bit different to the 3rd world pot-holes & tarmac that passes for 'a road' in my part of the Thames Valley. I've got a 968CS with M030 brakes, M030 front and rear ARB, new Koni Sport adjustable (M030 spec) dampers, but standard springs (coil front, bendy wire rear). On fully soft its a good compromise on poor surfaces, for example I can still pull out to overtake in 3rd using full power without practically losing control (like a friend with a GT3). The relatively soft rear, Michelin Pilot Sports and a lsd means traction is also excellent.
For track use I turn both front and rear dampers to 4/5 hard. The instructors that have driven it all rave about the balance and how nice it is to drive. I love it too - it really allows me (a relatively inexperienced track driver) to push without the feeling its going to go horribly wrong. BTW I've got adjustable front top mounts too which help turn-in and protect the tyres' outside shoulders.
My car had around 75k miles when I got it. I was a bit dissapointed with it initially, and I failed to understand what the fuss was about. However, refreshing the suspension and a good alignment job has transformed it. Clearly the car was still wearing its original dampers and they were knacked as were the bushes ets. I wouldn't really pay a lot more for a car with M030 unless there was evidence that had been replaced or rebuild (although the big brakes are a useful bonus). Alternatively something like KW3 is around £1600 fitted, Koni Sport like mine more like £600 fitted.
Other 'gotcha's' are oil leaks from the engine, water leaks from the sunroof/rear hatch area, busted radio ariel amps, kerbed wheels (they're very vulnerable), and poorly aligned suspension. As is all Porsche's, a car that needs "a little tlc and tidying up" can be a completly uneconomical money pit..
SS7
Domster,
My pal has one of those. Highly tuned but there is no way on earth i would go in the car with him.
I got the crappy old Porsche variety with hot film and AMD chip to 300bhp. No aircon, windup windows and rattley doors. Not even a stereo. Surely Porsche could have added some bling? Anyway booked into West Coast Tuners for a make over ;O)
I am not suggesting the CS is as quick just much more resposive in first and 2nd than standard. The RS is comfortably quicker out of the corners at Spa because the weight is over the rear wheels.
The RS is a track drivers car the CS more a road tourer. You should try one!
Charles
My pal has one of those. Highly tuned but there is no way on earth i would go in the car with him.
I got the crappy old Porsche variety with hot film and AMD chip to 300bhp. No aircon, windup windows and rattley doors. Not even a stereo. Surely Porsche could have added some bling? Anyway booked into West Coast Tuners for a make over ;O)
I am not suggesting the CS is as quick just much more resposive in first and 2nd than standard. The RS is comfortably quicker out of the corners at Spa because the weight is over the rear wheels.
The RS is a track drivers car the CS more a road tourer. You should try one!
Charles
chfs911 said:
Domster,
My pal has one of those. Highly tuned but there is no way on earth i would go in the car with him.
My pal has one of those. Highly tuned but there is no way on earth i would go in the car with him.
I don't blame you!!!! LOL.
chfs911 said:
I got the crappy old Porsche variety with hot film and AMD chip to 300bhp. No aircon, windup windows and rattley doors. Not even a stereo. Surely Porsche could have added some bling? Anyway booked into West Coast Tuners for a make over ;O)
Ask Des Sturdee. He will bling yours up with a few Porsche crests if necessary
It is only a matter of time before Xzibit pimps Des's steed with 22 inch spinnaz! chfs911 said:
I am not suggesting the CS is as quick just much more resposive in first and 2nd than standard. The RS is comfortably quicker out of the corners at Spa because the weight is over the rear wheels.
Fair enough. What's the chip doing power-wise in the CS anyway? The CS doesn't feel as responsive over the front axle because of the engine weight, either. That said, nicer on more tracks in more conditions when on the limit than the RS.
chfs911 said:
The RS is a track drivers car the CS more a road tourer. You should try one!
Charles
I have!
As much as I like the CS I'd take an RS every time for the noise... that said, they are a tad pricier than the CSs these days. Edited by domster on Friday 21st July 15:22
Just a quick note, a godd friend of mine organised a group buy from Porsche of ALL the last M30 ARB's and there are no longer ANY left available as they have now all been retro-fitted on the groups cars.
Any car with the original M30 suspension set up will now be tired and,as has been stated,the KW variant suspension set up is good.
If you are looking for some indepthe info try the following forum as most of the chaps on there are pretty keyed in and there are usually some well sorted cars for sale in the classifieds:
www.porsche968uk.co.uk/phpbb/index.php
Happy hunting
Mark.
Any car with the original M30 suspension set up will now be tired and,as has been stated,the KW variant suspension set up is good.
If you are looking for some indepthe info try the following forum as most of the chaps on there are pretty keyed in and there are usually some well sorted cars for sale in the classifieds:
www.porsche968uk.co.uk/phpbb/index.php
Happy hunting
Mark.
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