Porsche 944S engine rebuild

[james]

A guy at work has an 88 944S which needs an engine rebuild. The timing belt slipped. It happened when he was putting the car in the garage, so hopefully not too much damage done other than a couple of bent valves (and obviously the need for a new cam belt). The car has done about 130k miles, and was burning a bit of oil, so I think it'll be a case of a full rebuild.

Now for the question. He's bought a replacement car, and wants to get rid of it. I'm thinking of buying it for a bit of a project.

What sort of money should I expect to pay to rebuild the engine? Either proffessional rebuild, or gaskets/seals/cam belt/rings/shells etc. for a DIY job. I've rebuilt many engines in my time, although not a Porsche lump (is it fairly normal, or is there any rocket science involved?)

What is a one owner from new 1988 944S with non functioning engine and "needing a bit of a tidy up" worth? I looked in the ads section, and it would appear that one in reasonable running order would probably be worth something like £5k.

Cheers

James

[dontlift]

I had a replacement engine professionally built, lightened and balanced to race specs etc. for 1.5k by EMC Engines in Birmingham 0121 3282225 (talk to Kevin and tell him Patrick Weightman recommended you), superb outfit, excellent engine.

Drop me a mail if you want to know more

BTW the car is probably worth all in it's current condition unless sold to a breaker who i doubt would pay more than a 500 quid for it. might be worth phoning porschapart 01706 824053 and asking how much they would give you for the car

P.S. Let us know how you get on.

>> Edited by dontlift on Thursday 21st August 08:42

[james]

Thanks for the info. I'll give them a call if it goes any further.

Was that just to supply a recon engine (I would guess exchange), or did he rebuild your original one? I assume that you did all of the removal and re-fitting yourself.

[dontlift]

james said:

Thanks for the info. I'll give them a call if it goes any further. Was that just to supply a recon engine (I would guess exchange), or did he rebuild your original one? I assume that you did all of the removal and re-fitting yourself.

He removed the engine and refitted for me and also fitted an external oil cooler, and a new clutch whilst they were at it, I think total bill was 2.2k inclusive. however I know the later engines are slightly more expensive

[james]

So if I assume £3k for a decent rebuild, plus any damaged components (I'd be surprised if it doesn't at least have a couple of bent valves), I shouldn't be too far off the mark then.

Overall, I suppose that, a professional rebuild would cost slightly less than the car would be worth at the end of it, so if I can get it for a grand, and do the job myself (although I'd probably get it balanced), it would be worthwhile.

[dontlift]

james said:

So if I assume £3k for a decent rebuild, plus any damaged components (I'd be surprised if it doesn't at least have a couple of bent valves), I shouldn't be too far off the mark then. Overall, I suppose that, a professional rebuild would cost slightly less than the car would be worth at the end of it, so if I can get it for a grand, and do the job myself (although I'd probably get it balanced), it would be worthwhile.

If I remember rightly Kevin at EMC quoted me around 3k for a complete conversion, new engine etc to a 3ltr jobbie.....

As for worthwhile, depends what you want the car for?

>> Edited by dontlift on Thursday 21st August 09:35

[james]

I wasn't going to do anything fancy with it. The 944 is a car I always liked when I was a kid, and the idea of owning one (for not too much cash) appeals to me. I wouldn't be modifying it to use on the track, as I've got other things to do that with.

My wife needs a new car too, and she'd be more than happy to have a Porker

[clubsport]

I had a 968 where the previous,owner had the timing belt go at idle,,the result was 2 bent exhaust valves.
Obviously there was other work involved in grinding the rest of the valves in,,belts ,gaskets etc,,,,but hopefully it will not be too tragic when your friend gets the engine apart.

[dontlift]

I that case I would say very worth it they are great A to B via D, E and F everyday road cars, and a new engine should give it bullet proof reliability

[james]

Cheers. I'll keep you posted. The engine only broke on Wednesday, so I don't think he really knows how little the car is worth. Still, nothing ventured, nothing gained

[williamp]

My S had a similar thing last August: the teeth had stripped, meaning the belt alipped. I rebuilt it myself, then got the local specialist to look over it and determine whether I did a good job or not (I did-hooray!)

I'm still freightened to add up how much it cost, though: It was cheaper then getting soemone else to do it, but by the time I arranged a hire car, paid for it, got the bits, got someone to remove the valves etc etc etc...

One curiosity: although double overhead cams, the cam belt only does one cam. Half way along the camshafts there's a chain which connects the two. This chain (and the tensioner) also should be replaced at the same time.

If you need any advice, let me know...

[james]

Thanks for that. I wouldn't have the costs of a hire car or any of that sort of thing, as I'd be buying it dead. If it comes off, I'll be in touch to pick your brains.

On a similar note. Is there a workshop manual available from anywhere?

[dontlift]

james said:

On a similar note. Is there a workshop manual available from anywhere?

You can get workshop manuals off ebay, there is also a haynes, but i think that only covers the early cars

[iguana]

Dontlift is pretty spot on ref it being worth naff all at present.

I personally feel the people asking £5k for early 944's including S's are dreaming, as nice S2's & turbos are available for less than that and even LHD 968CS's are available for a grand or so more, but then again if they manage to get £5k for 'em well done.

ps if you decide you dont want it and its going cheap, drop me an e-mail as I would be interested.

Edited to add- I realiise I will now get the sheepskin coat & Arf'a Daily gags from Dom et al for my last line tho

>> Edited by iguana on Thursday 21st August 18:09

[james]

Will,

I tried to reply to your generous offer, but the emails just keep bouncing back. It looks like your mailbox is full.

Cheers

James

[domster]

iguana said:

Edited to add- I realiise I will now get the sheepskin coat & Arf'a Daily gags from Dom et al for my last line tho >> Edited by iguana on Thursday 21st August 18:09

Yes, you are PH's very own carcoat damphands, aintcha Mr Iguana?

Please don't sell any more cars to Alex. He finally managed to get his half-constructed project vehicles down to about 12 recently, so don't encourage him by giving him more. Another wreck outside the trailer will just annoy the council even more

[dontlift]

domster said:

iguana said: Edited to add- I realiise I will now get the sheepskin coat & Arf'a Daily gags from Dom et al for my last line tho >> Edited by iguana on Thursday 21st August 18:09 Yes, you are PH's very own carcoat damphands, aintcha Mr Iguana? Please don't sell any more cars to Alex. He finally managed to get his half-constructed project vehicles down to about 12 recently, so don't encourage him by giving him more. Another wreck outside the trailer will just annoy the council even more

>> Edited by dontlift on Friday 22 August 10:23

[sheepy]

james said:

Cheers. I'll keep you posted. The engine only broke on Wednesday, so I don't think he really knows how little the car is worth. Still, nothing ventured, nothing gained

Just bear in mind that some people have unrealistically high expectations of what their cars are worth even if they are broken. I wanted to take an abandoned 928 for restoration and the owner wanted £1500 for basically a shell and a gearbox!!!

If you don't decide to take the car, let me know as I may be interested

Sheepy

[iguana]

Dom you cheeky badger baiting rascal well deserved abuse tho as even after a recent clear out of Atkins diet proportions, im still at an embarisingly high number of vehicles.

The council actually don't mind the cars- well the sods get enough off me in road tax after all its the iguana's empire of a fleet of my tarmac, clothes peg and lucky heather delivery trucks and the assosiated 40 or so pikey drivers who all live in old caravans parked up on the local village green cluttering up the place that causes the odd row

[james]

I spoke to him yesterday, and let him know that the car was worth about £500 scrap value in its current state. I offered him £750 for it, but he said he was looking for more like £2,000 (just a wee bit unrealistic I think). I left it with him that he'll speak to his mechanic (who has looked after it for the last 10 or so years) and let me know what he wants to do.

I told him that if it was my car, I'd rebuild it myself and keep it, but if he isn't going to do that, it's pretty uneconomical to repair it just to sell. If he wants to get rid of it (which he said he did), I would take it for £750, and put it back on the road. The alternative is to sell it to a breaker, who will destroy it. Personally, if I'd had a car for 15 years, I thionk I'd rather give it away to somebody who was going to fix it and use it than sell it to a breaker.

From my point of view, I wasn't really looking to buy a car. It was just something that came along. So if it happens, great. If not, no problem. I think I'll just wait and see what he comes back with in a few days, or a couple of weeks when it's been sitting outside his house looking sorry for itself. I'm in no rush.

James