Is the bubble about to burst?
Discussion
Sam All said:
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That's about a £30k premium on a car with 2500 miles. LHD cars have been offered at about £40k premium with delivery mileage for a while now - JZM had one for a while.
The market is not strengthening, and with higher volume of 991 RSs than the predecessors something will start giving.
Spot on Sam... I've been keeping half an eye on Euro LHD RS's since they came out as I had been tempted to get in one. However, I've decided to just wait and see how the dust settles after the feeding frenzy and crazy overs prices. Still a premium to be paid but the market is definitely easing and with the 991.2 RS not far off (coupled with a seemingly high number of cars to choose from) the trend will only go one way...That's about a £30k premium on a car with 2500 miles. LHD cars have been offered at about £40k premium with delivery mileage for a while now - JZM had one for a while.
The market is not strengthening, and with higher volume of 991 RSs than the predecessors something will start giving.
Slickhillsy said:
Spot on Sam... I've been keeping half an eye on Euro LHD RS's since they came out as I had been tempted to get in one. However, I've decided to just wait and see how the dust settles after the feeding frenzy and crazy overs prices. Still a premium to be paid but the market is definitely easing and with the 991.2 RS not far off (coupled with a seemingly high number of cars to choose from) the trend will only go one way...
991GT3 prices have been strong, but the froth has disappeared - likely the 991RS will follow a similar trend.Anyone know exactly how many 991 GT3's produced? And 991RS so far?
Sam All said:
991GT3 prices have been strong, but the froth has disappeared - likely the 991RS will follow a similar trend.
Anyone know exactly how many 991 GT3's produced? And 991RS so far?
Over 300 GTs and 90 RS' to the end of 2015.Anyone know exactly how many 991 GT3's produced? And 991RS so far?
Interestingly, there are an increasing number of people who seem to have had their 5 mins of fun in these cars, now looking for something more analogue. I don't think they are going to be long term keepers or as sought after as some of the earlier stuff. That has to be reflected in prices at some point, notwithstanding the economic position.
Edited by Alpinestars on Tuesday 31st May 11:57
Slickhillsy said:
. Still a premium to be paid but the market is definitely easing and with the 991.2 RS not far off (coupled with a seemingly high number of cars to choose from) the trend will only go one way...
Gen 2 RS around 3 years off delivery.Some widely expected easing of 991 RS heady heights but its hard to see these under £215k at their worst even into Autumn 2017.
Proper spec and mileage 991 GT3s also eased a touch but even comforts selling well. Unlike the RS, biggest threat to these could be the next gen 'manuel' option for which demand may well mean only 25 percent could now be PDK which could support first gen residuals over £100k.
Expected 75 percent more gen 2 GT3s than gen 1....inevitably will supress premiums to a degree from previous gen 1 crazy levels.
av185 said:
Some widely expected easing of 991 RS heady heights but its hard to see these under £215k at their worst even into Autumn 2017.
Expected 75 percent more gen 2 GT3s than gen 1....inevitably will supress premiums to a degree from previous gen 1 crazy levels.
Impossible to assess where the values will settle down - the car was priced too cheap at list so a modest premium likely for a while. Expected 75 percent more gen 2 GT3s than gen 1....inevitably will supress premiums to a degree from previous gen 1 crazy levels.
Is there really a demand for so many more Gen 2 GT3's in a softening/saturating market- 75% more equates to 500+ cars.
Alpinestars said:
Interestingly, there are an increasing number of people who seem to have had their 5 mins of fun in these cars, now looking for something more analogue. I don't think they are going to be long term keepers or as sought after as some of the earlier stuff. That has to be reflected in prices at some point, notwithstanding the economic position.
Just my opinion and what do i know, but i;d not had too much to do with 991 GT3 as they were and still are, firmly beyond my means. However, had a good look around one the other day and also listened to it on start-up and idle and was left cold. Now I know that at the 8k plus redline they sound sublime, but IMHO part of the fun and drama is all the coughs, splutters, rattles and ticks (read character) that an real sporting engine generates from the word go. This was lacking.Also, apropos of enthusiasts who want to track their car and do a bit of DIY interim maintenance, can anyone tell me how or where the oil filter is accessed?
Sam All said:
Is there really a demand for so many more Gen 2 GT3's in a softening/saturating market- 75% more equates to 500+ cars.
500 still only c 25 percent more than GT4 production. Don't forget c 1200 458s (F1 and Spider) in UK still relatively exclusive and residuals although manipulated by F network have been very strong.Digga said:
ust my opinion and what do i know, but i;d not had too much to do with 991 GT3 as they were and still are, firmly beyond my means. However, had a good look around one the other day and also listened to it on start-up and idle and was left cold. Now I know that at the 8k plus redline they sound sublime, but IMHO part of the fun and drama is all the coughs, splutters, rattles and ticks (read character) that an real sporting engine generates from the word go. This was lacking.
GT3 has always sounded like a 'bag of spanners' and many consider it is a bit of a dog to drive at low speeds....drive line shunt, chuntering, underwhelming exhaust note (improved by Sharkwerks or disconnecting sports exhaust valves so permanently on). More mainstream stuff actually sounds much better at low speed but there is no better sounding 6 cylinder engine imo when stretched even only half way into the rev range at which point all its indiosyncracies are forgotten......av185 said:
Digga said:
ust my opinion and what do i know, but i;d not had too much to do with 991 GT3 as they were and still are, firmly beyond my means. However, had a good look around one the other day and also listened to it on start-up and idle and was left cold. Now I know that at the 8k plus redline they sound sublime, but IMHO part of the fun and drama is all the coughs, splutters, rattles and ticks (read character) that an real sporting engine generates from the word go. This was lacking.
GT3 has always sounded like a 'bag of spanners' and many consider it is a bit of a dog to drive at low speeds....drive line shunt, chuntering, underwhelming exhaust note (improved by Sharkwerks or disconnecting sports exhaust valves so permanently on). More mainstream stuff actually sounds much better at low speed but there is no better sounding 6 cylinder engine imo when stretched even only half way into the rev range at which point all its indiosyncracies are forgotten......I showed a video of my 996tt starting up, idling and pulling out of the garage to a friend who's interested in cars but not a car nut and he said "is it supposed to sound like that?" And of course, as well all know, yes they do.
I think mine will eventually get a better exhaust. It seems to have the Gundo hack on the O/S silencer, but it's too muted and uncommunicative at low revs/speeds, but then shrieks like a diving Stuka when revs and throttle openings are up. It is almost embarrassing overtaking sometimes. Almost.
av185 said:
Sam All said:
Is there really a demand for so many more Gen 2 GT3's in a softening/saturating market- 75% more equates to 500+ cars.
500 still only c 25 percent more than GT4 production. Don't forget c 1200 458s (F1 and Spider) in UK still relatively exclusive and residuals although manipulated by F network have been very strong.GT4 is far more accessible than a GT3. And previously Porsche have been careful not to have unsold cars and restricted numbers to sub 300 per type.
Interesting development now is that many owners of GT3's also seem to have bagged a GT4/ Boxster Spyder so it not necessarily more owners but preferred owners with a few of the highly desirable Porsche models. Lucky buggers.
GT4s are still being build until October. Build numbers for the GT4 are already over 5000, total build run is expected to be 7000 and that's not counting Spyders.
They also built more than 6000 991 GT3 RS so far.
"Limited build numbers" and "speculator opportunities" my arse. Look at the 987 parts bin specials (Cayman R and Spyder) — less than 2000 built of each and yet prices are going nowhere. I expect GT4 prices to be well below list price within a year or two.
Numbers are from a source inside Porsche whom I trust. Final/official numbers will be published by Porsche sooner or later when the production run is over.
They also built more than 6000 991 GT3 RS so far.
"Limited build numbers" and "speculator opportunities" my arse. Look at the 987 parts bin specials (Cayman R and Spyder) — less than 2000 built of each and yet prices are going nowhere. I expect GT4 prices to be well below list price within a year or two.
Numbers are from a source inside Porsche whom I trust. Final/official numbers will be published by Porsche sooner or later when the production run is over.
swimd said:
GT4s are still being build until October. Build numbers for the GT4 are already over 5000, total build run is expected to be 7000 and that's not counting Spyders.
They also built more than 6000 991 GT3 RS so far.
"Limited build numbers" and "speculator opportunities" my arse. Look at the 987 parts bin specials (Cayman R and Spyder) — less than 2000 built of each and yet prices are going nowhere. I expect GT4 prices to be well below list price within a year or two.
Numbers are from a source inside Porsche whom I trust. Final/official numbers will be published by Porsche sooner or later when the production run is over.
Preuninger said they will NOT build more than 5000 GT4s. A career in politics for him.They also built more than 6000 991 GT3 RS so far.
"Limited build numbers" and "speculator opportunities" my arse. Look at the 987 parts bin specials (Cayman R and Spyder) — less than 2000 built of each and yet prices are going nowhere. I expect GT4 prices to be well below list price within a year or two.
Numbers are from a source inside Porsche whom I trust. Final/official numbers will be published by Porsche sooner or later when the production run is over.
991GT3s - more than 6043 built, fact. So the 6k number for the 991RS does not surprise me.
But then they never said production would be limited - there were some on here who kept saying that based on their sources at Porsche , I think for commercial reasons.
swimd said:
GT4s are still being build until October. I expect GT4 prices to be well below list price within a year or two.
Not in the UK.
You appear to be confusing mainland Europe market with the UK market which is clearly unique....as demonstrated by the 991GT3. No reason why the GT4 won t be the same.
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