Testdrove the 997, but I'll go for a 996 instead
Discussion
rico said:
I'm of the generation thats grown up with the 996 so to speak (well, since passing my test) and i personally find it the best looking 911... especially in GT2 form.
You need to see a 997 in the flesh it makes the 996 look a bit gawky and awkward. I mean this in terms of the fussy rear spoiler (that was a nightmare to clean) on the 996 as well as the lights, wheels and interior. The 997 has a better defined 'side skirt' which also puts it visually ahead of the 996 in my book.
I also had thoughts along the lines of a 996 Turbo but feel they are going to drop when the 997tt comes along and when you compare any 3 year old car to a new one you need to consider the cost of a clutch or CV joint or the cost of a warranty (Say £3k to give 3 years)to get a true comparison.
There's also something nice about getting a spanker, particularly when they are going for 5-10k over list in in the Sunday times due to a total sell out through to September 2005.
Bennno
silver993tt said:
I don't think you can objectively compare them. If they BOTH cost 70k new then fine but they don't.
I wouldn't compare a second hand M5 with a new 535i.
Come on guys, obviously these 2 cars will be compared. A bloke has 70 grand, he wants a 911. That much he knows. But which one?
The 997S is quick, but not insane. It has a 2 year warranty, 18,000 mile service intervals, will be made to the exact spec desired by the owner, will be much cheaper to service/insure/look after.
The second hand 996 Turbo has the 997S licked in terms of performance and it has the bonus of 4WD. However, it is a thirsty thing, you will need to buy a warranty, it may need new tyres and brakes and insurance may be daft. The interior also isn't as nice as the 997s.
I think depreciation on both in the short/medium term will be similar because the 997 will enjoy a honeymoon period for a bit in terms of resale value. Long term, the 996 Turbo wins.
It's all about if you have 70 grand burning a hole, how do you blow it? If I had 70 grand I know I would buy one of these cars, but I don't know which one. I would drive both, then do the maths (as above) in some more detail.
johnny senna said:
I don't think you can objectively compare them. If they BOTH cost 70k new then fine but they don't.
I wouldn't compare a second hand M5 with a new 535i.
Come on guys, obviously these 2 cars will be compared. A bloke has 70 grand, he wants a 911. That much he knows. But which one?
The 997S is quick, but not insane. It has a 2 year warranty, 18,000 mile service intervals, will be made
to the exact spec desired by the owner, will be much
cheaper to service/insure/look after.
If you really want performance get a 993 GT2
The second hand 996 Turbo has the 997S licked in terms of performance and it has the bonus of 4WD. However, it is a thirsty thing, you will need to buy a warranty, it may need new tyres and brakes and insurance may be daft. The interior also isn't as nice as the 997s.
I think depreciation on both in the short/medium term will be similar because the 997 will enjoy a honeymoon period for a bit in terms of resale value. Long term, the 996 Turbo wins.
It's all about if you have 70 grand burning a hole, how do you blow it? If I had 70 grand I know I would buy one of these cars, but I don't know which one. I would drive both, then do the maths (as above) in some more detail.
If you really want performance and style....Get a 993 GT2poorcardealer said:
Does the 997 really have 18000 miles service intervals???
Yup 18k or two years instead of 12k & one year on the 996.a goodstep forward!
With regards to the argument 997 vs 996, the point is they are both fabulous cars. The 997 is an evolution of the 996 , not an all new car. Yes it has taken a usefull step forward in many ways, but it isn't a vastly different animal, even the uprated 997S is "similar" to a powerkitted (345bhp) 996 with 10mm sports suspension!
With early well specified facelift 996's now in the mid £40ks & a new optioned 997 at around £63k it's more a value decision & wether you want the latest toy. How much do you want to spend on a car & what do you want to loose? If you have one of the first 997's & sell within the first year I think depreciation will be very low, but over three years you will be looking at 40k (-20k) whilst the 996 will be looking at the low 30k's (-10k to 15k)!The same analogy apply's to the 996TT vs 997S.
Anyway whatever you are going for, enjoy your 996 or 997 both fabulous cars.
>> Edited by grant3 on Tuesday 28th September 14:04
You cant compare an 'old' car with a new car re depreciation, of course a 997 will lose more over 3 years than a 2-3 year old 996, the 996 has already done the major depreciation thing.
If you want the newest and best then you go for a 997, simple as that, Porsche would never release a car that isnt significantly better than its predecessor, steering maybe a little light initially, you'll learn to adapt,so all those people who are saying they want a 996 over the 997 are talking rubbish, they are penny pinching! Just say you want a good deal, nobody can deny a 996 4s isn't an awesome machine, and once they fall sub 50k they will be a steal! I personally want the best and newest available which is why I have orders for 3 2s' and letters of intent on a 4s and 2 turbos!
Hope I havent offended anyone.
If you want the newest and best then you go for a 997, simple as that, Porsche would never release a car that isnt significantly better than its predecessor, steering maybe a little light initially, you'll learn to adapt,so all those people who are saying they want a 996 over the 997 are talking rubbish, they are penny pinching! Just say you want a good deal, nobody can deny a 996 4s isn't an awesome machine, and once they fall sub 50k they will be a steal! I personally want the best and newest available which is why I have orders for 3 2s' and letters of intent on a 4s and 2 turbos!
Hope I havent offended anyone.
Sarbs said:
If you want the newest and best then you go for a 997, simple as that, Porsche would never release a car that isnt significantly better than its predecessor,
all those people who are saying they want a 996 over the 997 are talking rubbish, they are penny pinching!
Sarbs - I disagree. I think Porsche release cars that will make them money (Cayenne?), I don't think they measure "better" anymore on a subjective, experiential basis. They measure "better" by numbers: top speed, horsepower, lap times, diameter of wheels, etc.
A new breed of customer will buy the 997 because it can be driven fast by anyone, and will endow them with bragging rights over their poorer Porschephile brethren. That was substantially the case with the 996 and even perhaps the 993, but the game moves on incrementally yet again.
Empirically the 997 is "better", but there seems to be a body of opinion growing that swears the old 'uns are the best 'uns, and they're not necessarily penny pinching. I think I am turning into an old fogey...
jdh1 said:
Just to add another possibility into the equation - recently bought a 996 GT2 with 7,000 miles (new price £120k) for same price as a new 997. (70k) Obviously no comparison in terms of performance and the bulk of the depreciating has been done - I hope.
Wow. That is seriously good value. Good lad.
johnny senna said:
Just to add another possibility into the equation - recently bought a 996 GT2 with 7,000 miles (new price £120k) for same price as a new 997. (70k) Obviously no comparison in terms of performance and the bulk of the depreciating has been done - I hope.
Wow. That is seriously good value. Good lad.
I thought so...doesn't have ceramic brakes though, (one of the first dozen) but given the price of replacements (£20k) I reckon that's a good thing. And it seems to stop perfectly well with the archaic steel ones.
JDH1 said:
jdh1 said:
Just to add another possibility into the equation - recently bought a 996 GT2 with 7,000 miles (new price £120k) for same price as a new 997. (70k) Obviously no comparison in terms of performance and the bulk of the depreciating has been done - I hope.
Wow. That is seriously good value. Good lad.
I thought so...doesn't have ceramic brakes though, (one of the first dozen) but given the price of replacements (£20k) I reckon that's a good thing. And it seems to stop perfectly well with the archaic steel ones.
I would rather have your car with steel brakes than one of the later ones with ceramics. At least it saves you the money of converting to steel brakes like others have had to do.
DanH said:
Not being funny, but if you had a 70k sports car that you used in any anger, would you really leave the same oil in for 2 years? I'm deeply suspicious of these huge service intervals that are coming in these days.
Agreed. 2 years or 18,000 miles is crazy, the oil will be totally shagged at 18,000 miles. Just to keep the service costs down so the bean-counters are happy. It's the next owner who will suffer.
This is going to be a biased opinion.
I've had two 996's.
My 997 C2S arrives in May.
The reason I bought it over a 996(including the turbo) is that after years of love for the air cooled cars (I still have a 3.6 turbo II) the 997 looks, feels, drives, sounds, like a Porsche 911. The steering's different, but still superb. Great cars though they are the 996s look and sound like big Boxsters.
The 996 will be the next 928.
I've had two 996's.
My 997 C2S arrives in May.
The reason I bought it over a 996(including the turbo) is that after years of love for the air cooled cars (I still have a 3.6 turbo II) the 997 looks, feels, drives, sounds, like a Porsche 911. The steering's different, but still superb. Great cars though they are the 996s look and sound like big Boxsters.
The 996 will be the next 928.
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