CLR is now a thing!
Discussion
lemmingjames said:
So does that mean you can start selling parts?
MrwReckless said:
I've followed your thread on 911uk with great interest, also read the piece in the magazine that came out not too long ago (forgot the name of it).
I wish to extend many congratulations on your achievement. Well done!
I forgot if it has been mentioned, but I gather you are meant to open up some sort of business with this, selling your redesigned lightweight parts and perhaps also offer fitting of some of the more complicated bits like the roof?
Regards
I'm really not sure what way I'll take this in the future James/MrReckless. I will be making a start on my first CLR997 in a month or so though. But right now I'm redesigning all the garage to have full workshop facilities. So new flooring, change access (re-concrete), new lighting, a 4-poster lifter; to fit the lifter I have to fit a new garage door, to fit the door I have to rewire the whole garage (I've spent all day today doing this and still only about 30% complete)...I wish to extend many congratulations on your achievement. Well done!
I forgot if it has been mentioned, but I gather you are meant to open up some sort of business with this, selling your redesigned lightweight parts and perhaps also offer fitting of some of the more complicated bits like the roof?Regards
Which way I take it in the future is still to be determined. I'm no businessman so I'll have to do a bit of research before making any firm decisions. I like the idea of full conversions, like what Singer produce. In fact I did come up with a little plan a few months back which was basically offering 3 different levels. Whether this is the route I pursue is still to be decided:
Steve Rance said:
A deserved reward for a huge amount of effort. I love your approach to modifying 911s Richard. Bloody well done.
Many thanks Steve, and for all the support and ideas along the way 
EGTE said:
As Steve says: bloody well done, Rich!
Thanks for raising the already-high 996 bar!
Thank you, in fact part of this development is fitted to your car, so you played a part in making this happen;)Thanks for raising the already-high 996 bar!
Huge congratulations!
I for one am interested in a parts list menu, and I really like your 3 stage summary.
Mine is in regular daily use, so I'll be keeping the radio and A.C., but I definitely don't need 10 speakers and a CD changer! I wonder what the weight difference is in switching an Aerokit spoiler for a ducktail?
Really interested to see where you take this.
I for one am interested in a parts list menu, and I really like your 3 stage summary.
Mine is in regular daily use, so I'll be keeping the radio and A.C., but I definitely don't need 10 speakers and a CD changer! I wonder what the weight difference is in switching an Aerokit spoiler for a ducktail?
Really interested to see where you take this.
Tough market now RPM have the CSR's imo.
I wish you luck but the markets been transformed by RSS, Ohlins and all the other off the peg items to mod cars now days.
Any one can make a focused car at home if they have £25k to throw at it with off the peg parts.
Making a hobby a business is very tough, the markets not as it was and the skills not now needed to make focused cars as it once was.
I look forward to the 997 CLR, it's a project I have been thinking of doing myself for a personal car while I can still find a £50k low miles 997.2 base car to buy.
No point buying a GTS at £80k when a £50k car with £30k spent on it would be a much nicer thing.
But as a business , VERY tricky..... I wish you well :-)
I wish you luck but the markets been transformed by RSS, Ohlins and all the other off the peg items to mod cars now days.
Any one can make a focused car at home if they have £25k to throw at it with off the peg parts.
Making a hobby a business is very tough, the markets not as it was and the skills not now needed to make focused cars as it once was.
I look forward to the 997 CLR, it's a project I have been thinking of doing myself for a personal car while I can still find a £50k low miles 997.2 base car to buy.
No point buying a GTS at £80k when a £50k car with £30k spent on it would be a much nicer thing.
But as a business , VERY tricky..... I wish you well :-)
Thanks for the feedback and kind words guys. As I said I have not formulated a business plan yet so can't really give any indication as to pricing structure... Other than to say at least you wont be paying the import duty* of a Singer 
RPM are a great outfit and have a solid business doing great things with their CSR's.
This is not anything like what I have been doing though, albeit the acronym is only one chromosome out For instance a CSR you could not register in Europe. The difference in a CSR and the CLR are too numerous to list. The small matter of over 200Kg weight delta, completely bespoke suspension/geometry solution, PAS conversion, fully TUV compliant and certified are just some differences. Basically the CSR is a great option for off the shelf parts. The other is a bespoke custom design that is hand crafted and designed to a very specific requirement to be the ultimate 911 driving experience and I genuinely believe in terms of a drivers car you would be very surprised cmoose had a fairly extended drive at an earlier development stage last year. All the issues he raised have now been ironed out. I have since redesigned the lower control arms, castor arms, front tie rods, steering force input reduction, front drop links, ARB system, suspension rebound settings, LSD, further weight reduction... It will always be a development platform, but where it is at now, really is a very unique experience. I think you should try both and then make you mind up
Please don't take this as me bashing RPM in anyway shape or form, they have a great product and the guys there are all top draw. My CLR is just a different thing altogether.
Porsche911R said:
Tough market now RPM have the CSR's imo.
I wish you luck but the markets been transformed by RSS, Ohlins and all the other off the peg items to mod cars now days.
Any one can make a focused car at home if they have £25k to throw at it with off the peg parts.
Making a hobby a business is very tough, the markets not as it was and the skills not now needed to make focused cars as it once was.
I look forward to the 997 CLR, it's a project I have been thinking of doing myself for a personal car while I can still find a £50k low miles 997.2 base car to buy.
No point buying a GTS at £80k when a £50k car with £30k spent on it would be a much nicer thing.
But as a business , VERY tricky..... I wish you well :-)
Regarding this, many thanks for your comment and thoughts on the subject.I wish you luck but the markets been transformed by RSS, Ohlins and all the other off the peg items to mod cars now days.
Any one can make a focused car at home if they have £25k to throw at it with off the peg parts.
Making a hobby a business is very tough, the markets not as it was and the skills not now needed to make focused cars as it once was.
I look forward to the 997 CLR, it's a project I have been thinking of doing myself for a personal car while I can still find a £50k low miles 997.2 base car to buy.
No point buying a GTS at £80k when a £50k car with £30k spent on it would be a much nicer thing.
But as a business , VERY tricky..... I wish you well :-)
RPM are a great outfit and have a solid business doing great things with their CSR's.
This is not anything like what I have been doing though, albeit the acronym is only one chromosome out
For instance a CSR you could not register in Europe. The difference in a CSR and the CLR are too numerous to list. The small matter of over 200Kg weight delta, completely bespoke suspension/geometry solution, PAS conversion, fully TUV compliant and certified are just some differences. Basically the CSR is a great option for off the shelf parts. The other is a bespoke custom design that is hand crafted and designed to a very specific requirement to be the ultimate 911 driving experience and I genuinely believe in terms of a drivers car you would be very surprised cmoose had a fairly extended drive at an earlier development stage last year. All the issues he raised have now been ironed out. I have since redesigned the lower control arms, castor arms, front tie rods, steering force input reduction, front drop links, ARB system, suspension rebound settings, LSD, further weight reduction... It will always be a development platform, but where it is at now, really is a very unique experience. I think you should try both and then make you mind up Please don't take this as me bashing RPM in anyway shape or form, they have a great product and the guys there are all top draw. My CLR is just a different thing altogether.
- Did someone say Brexit! At least until 2019 that is
Wow I am truly impressed - given that I can‘t even be bothered to look into changing seats in my car thanks to being scared of the TÜV. I think people in the UK have it much better, getting anything onto your car in Germany is a challenge and from following your updates on and off for a couple of years, I will need to see your finished car at some point - it sounds amazing
Congratulations
Congratulations
Porsche911R said:
Tough market now RPM have the CSR's imo.
I wish you luck but the markets been transformed by RSS, Ohlins and all the other off the peg items to mod cars now days.
Any one can make a focused car at home if they have £25k to throw at it with off the peg parts.
Making a hobby a business is very tough, the markets not as it was and the skills not now needed to make focused cars as it once was.
I look forward to the 997 CLR, it's a project I have been thinking of doing myself for a personal car while I can still find a £50k low miles 997.2 base car to buy.
No point buying a GTS at £80k when a £50k car with £30k spent on it would be a much nicer thing.
But as a business , VERY tricky..... I wish you well :-)
I don't think you fully understand the importance of what he has achieved by getting his "creation" TUV approved!!I wish you luck but the markets been transformed by RSS, Ohlins and all the other off the peg items to mod cars now days.
Any one can make a focused car at home if they have £25k to throw at it with off the peg parts.
Making a hobby a business is very tough, the markets not as it was and the skills not now needed to make focused cars as it once was.
I look forward to the 997 CLR, it's a project I have been thinking of doing myself for a personal car while I can still find a £50k low miles 997.2 base car to buy.
No point buying a GTS at £80k when a £50k car with £30k spent on it would be a much nicer thing.
But as a business , VERY tricky..... I wish you well :-)
MDL111 said:
Wow I am truly impressed - given that I can‘t even be bothered to look into changing seats in my car thanks to being scared of the TÜV. I think people in the UK have it much better, getting anything onto your car in Germany is a challenge and from following your updates on and off for a couple of years, I will need to see your finished car at some point - it sounds amazing
Congratulations
Congratulations
NIgt3 said:
I don't think you fully understand the importance of what he has achieved by getting his "creation" TUV approved!!
You're not wrong gents, the system over here is a real headache 
Whereabouts in Germany are you MDL111? It would you great to show you around the car
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Thanks J Looking for a wide body 997 donor, hopefully with a totalled engine, then the 4WD rubbish will go in the bin and engine capacity will be increased by 300cc. Should make for an interesting project...I am in Munich - sometime in summer I will need to do a road trip further north to visit friends in Frankfurt and I will very happily drive a little further to take you up on your kind offer.
Edit: Would you be able to use a 996 GT3 at base car and get to a similar weight reduction?
Edit: Would you be able to use a 996 GT3 at base car and get to a similar weight reduction?
Edited by MDL111 on Wednesday 7th March 17:33
CarreraLightweightRacing said:
MDL111 said:
Wow I am truly impressed - given that I can‘t even be bothered to look into changing seats in my car thanks to being scared of the TÜV. I think people in the UK have it much better, getting anything onto your car in Germany is a challenge and from following your updates on and off for a couple of years, I will need to see your finished car at some point - it sounds amazing
Congratulations
Congratulations
NIgt3 said:
I don't think you fully understand the importance of what he has achieved by getting his "creation" TUV approved!!
You're not wrong gents, the system over here is a real headache Whereabouts in Germany are you MDL111? It would you great to show you around the car
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Thanks J Looking for a wide body 997 donor, hopefully with a totalled engine, then the 4WD rubbish will go in the bin and engine capacity will be increased by 300cc. Should make for an interesting project...MDL111 said:
I am in Munich - sometime in summer I will need to do a road trip further north to visit friends in Frankfurt and I will very happily drive a little further to take you up on your kind offer. Would you be able to use a 996 GT3 at base car and get to a similar weight reduction?
I look forward to your visit then MDL The question you raise is an interesting one. You see most would see b
disation of the hallowed GT3 as sacrilege. If you can overcome that first hurdle then I see personally no better starting point that a GT3. In order to give accurate potential weight saving calculations, I'd have to sit down with a pen and paper for a few minutes Steve Rance said:
Rich. Where did you end up with the arb conundrum? Did you go damper/spring control only or revert back to ARB in the end?
Good question Steve and having tried a multitude of different configurations I made the final decision based on the following:-Car is now 18% lighter, therefore the damper/springs are working far less, that's before you consider the new suspension set-up. Stock front spring rate is 25NM/mm or 29NM/mm for M030 spec. Now I'm running 65NM/mm front spring rate. I don't know the exact answer but the ARB's probably add around the equivalent of around 20% effective spring rate. So given the lighter the car the less an effect the ARB's have (see S1 Elise for reference), I've gone a completely untested route of sans-ARB on the front. I have compensated the natural oversteer effect by stiffening up the front rebound setting and dropping of the rear rebound. This is unchartered territory so far as I know but the results thus far is looking very good. I need more seat time to give a more accurate appraisal, or better still, give a tamed racing driving a bit of bum-time to see how they feel. For my intended use (fast road) it has so far been exemplary for this car. If you've heard Preuninger in his latest release, regarding the GT3RS set up being more CUP car based ( 5m55s on of this-video refers), you will see Weissach have been copying me
NIgt3 said:
Would love to see this, im in Germany 6times a year, be there for a week at Easter, near the nurburgring
I can't promise anything, but give me a heads up before you come over and I'll see how I'm fixed Jim1556 said:
As he lives only 40 mins away from the Nurburgring, it'd be rather interesting to see it's ring time in capable hands...
What say you Rich? Get Chris Harris or Sabine involved?
They are probably very busy mate to entertain this kind of thing. Be great to get some feedback from a reputable source though.What say you Rich? Get Chris Harris or Sabine involved?
Edited by CarreraLightweightRacing on Thursday 8th March 16:33
Rocket. said:
Congratulations, you deserve every success. I'd love to see your approach / take on a 987 Cayman....
Thank you Rocket and funny you mention a 987. I was looking recently to buy a 986 and go a bit crazy with one. I had to put my sensible head on though and have just spent way too much buying all the stuff to set up the garage. Incredible that you have owned a Rocket. There couldn't have been many that were made and they were something crazy like 375kg from memory. Would love to see some pics of it if you have any
Ha yes CLR I thought it might be the sort of car that appealed to you. My family were involved in the whole project and the Light Car Company.
From 2006-2015 I owned chassis no.18 of 48, sadly had to let it go but had great fun with it, 4 wheeled motor bike often gets trotted out but it really is best way to describe it, and weight distribution not disimilar to a 911. Mine was circa 380kilos wet with 150hp, like all British sports cars it had it's issues at times. Gordon Murray lets his young designers drive his so they really understand about benefits of lightweight.
As you well know making cars light and bespoke parts are not cheap and as a business it never made money, too expensive to build but not priced high enough to turn a decent profit, probably just too niche and very low volume economies of scale are tricky, to be fair it was never really created as a business.
Don't let above put you off ! 986 idea I do like, lowish entry price at least and perfect size car for British roads.
From 2006-2015 I owned chassis no.18 of 48, sadly had to let it go but had great fun with it, 4 wheeled motor bike often gets trotted out but it really is best way to describe it, and weight distribution not disimilar to a 911. Mine was circa 380kilos wet with 150hp, like all British sports cars it had it's issues at times. Gordon Murray lets his young designers drive his so they really understand about benefits of lightweight.
As you well know making cars light and bespoke parts are not cheap and as a business it never made money, too expensive to build but not priced high enough to turn a decent profit, probably just too niche and very low volume economies of scale are tricky, to be fair it was never really created as a business.
Don't let above put you off ! 986 idea I do like, lowish entry price at least and perfect size car for British roads.
Edited by Rocket. on Saturday 10th March 13:06
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff