Discussion
Thanks everyone. I think the final post sums it all up.
Hey 456, I knew there would be a biased response posting this issue on a Porsche Forum, so I did the same on the BM Forum (BM3W.co.uk) as you had presumed. The response are as biased as I expected but the comments of many (particularly those who have owned/own both cars) are interesting. Not many have moved fron the 996 to the M3, so most comments were based on their experience of the 993/964. I would expect these cars are not as "easy to drive" as the 996. I bragg not about my driving (or lack of driving) skills
Funny think is, members of the BM Forum make no reference to the engine problem which has plague some (tiny minority in the Uk) E46 M3.
Anyway, still going to view a M3 Cab this weekend before I discard the option completely.
Hey 456, I knew there would be a biased response posting this issue on a Porsche Forum, so I did the same on the BM Forum (BM3W.co.uk) as you had presumed. The response are as biased as I expected but the comments of many (particularly those who have owned/own both cars) are interesting. Not many have moved fron the 996 to the M3, so most comments were based on their experience of the 993/964. I would expect these cars are not as "easy to drive" as the 996. I bragg not about my driving (or lack of driving) skills
Funny think is, members of the BM Forum make no reference to the engine problem which has plague some (tiny minority in the Uk) E46 M3.
Anyway, still going to view a M3 Cab this weekend before I discard the option completely.
I test drove the M3 convertable, (Very shaky & back seats not big enough) drove the M3 coupe cabin too tight for me, ie foot rest and arm rest not in right position or comfortable.
Bought an M5, big enough and comfortable but had lots of breakdowns and safety issues. (See BMW forum M5 Finally.)
Now got a 996 targa and love the looks, exclusivity (but paid for it
and the total driving experience. Oh yes its also has not broken down and bits havnt fallen off so far. (fingers crossed)
Tne 996 is expensive, probably is not much faster than M3, but every day I look at the 996 when i get up in the morning I go WOW, every time I get into it is WOW. Every journer is a Wow. My friends all go WoW. Boys in the area I live have literaly bowed down at the side of the road and in 'oh not worthy style'
(no joke) and have positve comments so far in my ownership.
M5 ? whats special about that was the main comment, and then i would spend 10 mins trying to explain that it really was a fast car (when it worked) that although it looked liked every other box car on the road it was special.
996 is a cheaper insurance than the M5 for me (dont know about M3) better fuel econ (although not bothered about that too much)
Basically I would say if you can afford the extra for a 996 do it, you wont regred the driving experience. If you cant then the M3 is one of the few alternatives. Although I would now go for an Evo 8 instead of an M3
Let us know what you think and decide.
Safe driving.
>> Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 15th January 09:11
>> Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 15th January 13:35
Bought an M5, big enough and comfortable but had lots of breakdowns and safety issues. (See BMW forum M5 Finally.)
Now got a 996 targa and love the looks, exclusivity (but paid for it
and the total driving experience. Oh yes its also has not broken down and bits havnt fallen off so far. (fingers crossed) Tne 996 is expensive, probably is not much faster than M3, but every day I look at the 996 when i get up in the morning I go WOW, every time I get into it is WOW. Every journer is a Wow. My friends all go WoW. Boys in the area I live have literaly bowed down at the side of the road and in 'oh not worthy style'
(no joke) and have positve comments so far in my ownership. M5 ? whats special about that was the main comment, and then i would spend 10 mins trying to explain that it really was a fast car (when it worked) that although it looked liked every other box car on the road it was special.
996 is a cheaper insurance than the M5 for me (dont know about M3) better fuel econ (although not bothered about that too much)
Basically I would say if you can afford the extra for a 996 do it, you wont regred the driving experience. If you cant then the M3 is one of the few alternatives. Although I would now go for an Evo 8 instead of an M3
Let us know what you think and decide.
Safe driving.
>> Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 15th January 09:11
>> Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 15th January 13:35
Hi Dele,
Nice position to be in!!
From my limited experience (never been in an M3 Cab) I would take the 996.
They just seem a that bit more special to me, and depreciation will be incomparable.
A 1994 M3 Cab is worth maybe £13k now where as a 94 Porka could be double that.
I love E46 M3s but would take a slightly olser 996 anyday.
Let me know what you decide on.
Nice position to be in!!
From my limited experience (never been in an M3 Cab) I would take the 996.
They just seem a that bit more special to me, and depreciation will be incomparable.
A 1994 M3 Cab is worth maybe £13k now where as a 94 Porka could be double that.
I love E46 M3s but would take a slightly olser 996 anyday.
Let me know what you decide on.
superlightr said: Now got a 996 targa and love the looks, exclusivity (but paid for it
Tne 996 is expensive, probably is not much faster than M3, but every day I look at the 996 when i get up in the morning I go WOW, every time I get into it is WOW. Every journer is a Wow. My friends all go WoW. Boys in the area I live have literaly bowed down at the side of the road and in 'oh not worth style'
Hi, mate!!
I can only echo that. I bought a 911 Targa with my head. It seemed so much more sensible than the next luxo barge or another Audi A8. They're all getting heavier and heavier, thirstier and thirstier.
I was, however, terrified of negative reactions from my customers, from strangers, damage, keying etc. etc.
The reaction has been amazing. Not ONCE have I had a negative reaction. On the contrary, experiences exactly the same as you, customers smiling/laughing, people on the road-side exhorting me to blip the loud pedal ...
It is a WOW to look at it, a WOW to get in, a WOW to drive.
Rgds, WalterU
>> Edited by WalterU on Wednesday 15th January 12:39
WalterU - I think we must have been separated at birth or there was cloning around earlier than we knew !!
ps thanks for the support on one of the other posts about unfair dismissal/pregnancy. Gave you are respect thingy from me !!
>> Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 15th January 13:39
ps thanks for the support on one of the other posts about unfair dismissal/pregnancy. Gave you are respect thingy from me !!
>> Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 15th January 13:39
superlightr said: WalterU - I think we must have been separated at birth or there was cloning around earlier than we knew !!
ps thanks for the support on one of the other posts about unfair dismissal/pregnancy. Gave you are respect thingy from me !!
>> Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 15th January 13:39
Blush - thanks for the compliments
Your respect rating should have gone up too. Are you really in Peru? eMail me off site.
Rgds, WalterU
>> Edited by WalterU on Wednesday 15th January 14:51
>> Edited by WalterU on Wednesday 15th January 14:52
I've got an M3 Cab and a Boxster S, I've test driven the latest 996 carrera 2 cab and the last model a 996 cab a couple of times back in jan 01 (bought a boxster S instead).
You can’t really go wrong no matter what you pick.
The M3 is pretty stiff ride on the 19 inch tyres and although it suffers slightly from some body flex on really bad roads, so does the last Carrera I tested which was on the 18inch wheels and also had body flex to lesser extent. Having said that they both are amazingly composed on theroad with amazing grip. Like the Boxster S i found the 996 to have more feel through the steering than the M3, the M3 is good, but not in the same league as the Porsches. Chassis feed back in the 996, seemed less than I got in the boxster, although still very informative, the M3 is also pretty good. The 996 had a firm supple ride better than the boxser S and better than the M3 which is very stiff and not as supple. The 996 and the Boxster have slightly better throttles (even than the M3 in sport mode), this allows you to balance the car in the corner better, particularly the boxster in which it is amazingly easy to change the attitude of the car mid corner with just a slight flex of the throttle. The M3 is surprisingly quite on the Motorway, the engine is lovely and smooth and quiet when off throttle, I can't remember cruising in the old 996 just pushing it. You can get 4 adults in the M3 with a bit of comfort for an hour or two, it does have four full seats, but the rears do get tiring after a while.
The 996 gives a lovely induction roar as the revs build up and the engine makes a nice noise at full song, the car didn't feel as fast as it is. The M3 howls away and sounds far more manic.
The m3 is easier to take up to its limits, than the Boxster S the Boxster is more rewarding, but just a shade more difficult (the boxster does have higher limits), I found this as well with the last 996 I tested in the summer , like the Boxster the car comes really alive approaching the limits giving a lot of info, which can be a bit unsettling . The M3 lets through less info, still enough to let you know whats roughly happening but the car feels more planted till it starts to go.
Road and track got the M3 cab (18inch)(333bhp us version) to grip to 0.86g on a 300ft skidpan,
Zero to 60 mph: 5.1 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 12.5 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 22.8 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.8 sec
Standing 1/4-mile: 13.7 sec @ 104 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 157 mph
Car and Driver testing a 996 cab in 1998 got same grip and the
ACCELERATION Seconds
Zero to 30 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.7
40 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2.5
50 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.7
60 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4.9
70 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6.5
80 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8.2
90 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .10.1
100 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .12.5
110 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .15.2
120 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .18.4
130 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .23.2
140 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28.8
150 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .38.9
Street start, 5-60 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5.7
Top-gear acceleration, 30-50 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8.5
50-70 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9.1
Standing 1/4-mile. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13.5 sec @ 104 mph
Top speed (drag limited). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 165 mph
BRAKING
70-0 mph @ impending lockup. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 170 ft
Fade. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . none LIGHT moderate heavy
HANDLING
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad. . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.86 g
Understeer. . . . . . . . . . . . . .minimal MODERATE excessive
FUEL ECONOMY
EPA city driving. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .17 mpg
EPA highway driving. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25 mpg
C/D-observed fuel economy. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18 mpg
Performance is very close. Interestingly they have had Boxsters S pulling 0.92g on the skidpan tests.
If you love your driving as a rewarding experience and wish to put a bit of effort in at times I would go for an older 996, better resale, amazing steering, feel etc. (I would get one with traction control)
However if you need rear seats the M3 is really really a good car and its thrills are readily accessible. The M3 is also amazingly easy to drive really quickly in the wet. (It also has a glass rear screen)
Incidentally the Boxster S, although slower, is amazingly close to the 996 cabs in a lot of respects, and even arguably better in some, it does offer great value for money with good residuals.
Of my cars the Boxster S is the better pure drive, you start with a smile that spreads to a really wide grin the further you exploit its greater depths, but the M3 makes you give a good grin straight away. As a new purchase no other car offers the same blend of performance, handling and practicality for the money.
On track days I find I can go quicker, sooner in the M3, not just because of the extra power it has but it just seems easier to get used to the track in it.
>> Edited by jumjum on Wednesday 15th January 15:52
You can’t really go wrong no matter what you pick.
The M3 is pretty stiff ride on the 19 inch tyres and although it suffers slightly from some body flex on really bad roads, so does the last Carrera I tested which was on the 18inch wheels and also had body flex to lesser extent. Having said that they both are amazingly composed on theroad with amazing grip. Like the Boxster S i found the 996 to have more feel through the steering than the M3, the M3 is good, but not in the same league as the Porsches. Chassis feed back in the 996, seemed less than I got in the boxster, although still very informative, the M3 is also pretty good. The 996 had a firm supple ride better than the boxser S and better than the M3 which is very stiff and not as supple. The 996 and the Boxster have slightly better throttles (even than the M3 in sport mode), this allows you to balance the car in the corner better, particularly the boxster in which it is amazingly easy to change the attitude of the car mid corner with just a slight flex of the throttle. The M3 is surprisingly quite on the Motorway, the engine is lovely and smooth and quiet when off throttle, I can't remember cruising in the old 996 just pushing it. You can get 4 adults in the M3 with a bit of comfort for an hour or two, it does have four full seats, but the rears do get tiring after a while.
The 996 gives a lovely induction roar as the revs build up and the engine makes a nice noise at full song, the car didn't feel as fast as it is. The M3 howls away and sounds far more manic.
The m3 is easier to take up to its limits, than the Boxster S the Boxster is more rewarding, but just a shade more difficult (the boxster does have higher limits), I found this as well with the last 996 I tested in the summer , like the Boxster the car comes really alive approaching the limits giving a lot of info, which can be a bit unsettling . The M3 lets through less info, still enough to let you know whats roughly happening but the car feels more planted till it starts to go.
Road and track got the M3 cab (18inch)(333bhp us version) to grip to 0.86g on a 300ft skidpan,
Zero to 60 mph: 5.1 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 12.5 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 22.8 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.8 sec
Standing 1/4-mile: 13.7 sec @ 104 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 157 mph
Car and Driver testing a 996 cab in 1998 got same grip and the
ACCELERATION Seconds
Zero to 30 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.7
40 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2.5
50 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.7
60 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4.9
70 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6.5
80 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8.2
90 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .10.1
100 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .12.5
110 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .15.2
120 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .18.4
130 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .23.2
140 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28.8
150 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .38.9
Street start, 5-60 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5.7
Top-gear acceleration, 30-50 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8.5
50-70 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9.1
Standing 1/4-mile. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13.5 sec @ 104 mph
Top speed (drag limited). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 165 mph
BRAKING
70-0 mph @ impending lockup. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 170 ft
Fade. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . none LIGHT moderate heavy
HANDLING
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad. . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.86 g
Understeer. . . . . . . . . . . . . .minimal MODERATE excessive
FUEL ECONOMY
EPA city driving. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .17 mpg
EPA highway driving. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25 mpg
C/D-observed fuel economy. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18 mpg
Performance is very close. Interestingly they have had Boxsters S pulling 0.92g on the skidpan tests.
If you love your driving as a rewarding experience and wish to put a bit of effort in at times I would go for an older 996, better resale, amazing steering, feel etc. (I would get one with traction control)
However if you need rear seats the M3 is really really a good car and its thrills are readily accessible. The M3 is also amazingly easy to drive really quickly in the wet. (It also has a glass rear screen)
Incidentally the Boxster S, although slower, is amazingly close to the 996 cabs in a lot of respects, and even arguably better in some, it does offer great value for money with good residuals.
Of my cars the Boxster S is the better pure drive, you start with a smile that spreads to a really wide grin the further you exploit its greater depths, but the M3 makes you give a good grin straight away. As a new purchase no other car offers the same blend of performance, handling and practicality for the money.
On track days I find I can go quicker, sooner in the M3, not just because of the extra power it has but it just seems easier to get used to the track in it.
>> Edited by jumjum on Wednesday 15th January 15:52
When a 10 or 15 year old 911 drives by you look and think wow..
When a 10 or 15 year old M3 drives by you dont notice or you lock your doors.!!
As I said before, Ive had both cars, (still have 996) and the Porsche is a legend. The M3 ( or in any BMW) is not.
Hit the nail on the head mate!
Steve
>> Edited by sb930turbo (moderator) on Friday 17th January 20:53
When a 10 or 15 year old M3 drives by you dont notice or you lock your doors.!!
As I said before, Ive had both cars, (still have 996) and the Porsche is a legend. The M3 ( or in any BMW) is not.
Hit the nail on the head mate!
Steve
>> Edited by sb930turbo (moderator) on Friday 17th January 20:53
petepeter said: walter , surely you dont live in England , because the 996 would have got scratched here..
England is full of the most bitter, jealous people , who dont like to see others doing well. When Ive taken my 996 to Europe, you get nothng but good reactions from people. In England Im afraid to park it on the road or in a shopping centre car park, because its been vandalised once already.
you depress me. I live in England, but do almost all my motoring on the continent. When I'm here I don't get about much, so I haven't had much experience. But I have had workmen and boys smiling and clapping.
Rgds, WalterU
Thanks for all those who commented and those who had the patience to endure my questions on the phone.
Picked her up last night. (private purchase but specialist inspection)
Spec:
99/T Carrera 2 convertible (LHD)in silver with silver leather. Manual,Traction/C, h/seats, Sat Nav/music upgrade/phone(i.e PCM), 18" turbo alloys, h/top and the silver bits around the gear stick/dash. Absolutely spotless...but then, everyone says that.
One question, does the wind deflector come as standard on convertible? If so, mine is missing!
Picked her up last night. (private purchase but specialist inspection)
Spec:
99/T Carrera 2 convertible (LHD)in silver with silver leather. Manual,Traction/C, h/seats, Sat Nav/music upgrade/phone(i.e PCM), 18" turbo alloys, h/top and the silver bits around the gear stick/dash. Absolutely spotless...but then, everyone says that.
One question, does the wind deflector come as standard on convertible? If so, mine is missing!
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