nurburg track insurance
Discussion
m12_nathan said:
Someone earlier stated that insurers no longer class the 'ring as a public road which is what concerned me.
Don't think they can do this.
However, they can specifically exlude it from their 1st party cover (read the policy very carefully, as per Dom's suggestion earlier) plus the grey area is that although the 'Ring is technically a public toll road, it is also quite obviously a race track which is where they often try to argue the toss.
m12_nathan said:
Someone earlier stated that insurers no longer class the 'ring as a public road which is what concerned me.
Someone is wrong if they mean all insurers. They were probably referring to 'some insurers'.
Also, the ring IS a public road. That's why the police patrol it and enforce the speed limits on certain sections, and why you can only overtake on the left (as on the rest of the road network in Germany). The insurers could class it as a "lunatics' playground made of cheese with a marzipan base" and refuse cover because Mystic Meg told them the stars were misaligned over Adenau this century, but it doesn't make something not true.
As I said before, a friend claimed on his policy about a month ago. The insurers probably aren't inviting him to their christmas party, but they paid out, inc for hire car and armco damage (2.5k EUR). I doubt ALL insurers or underwriters would be this accommodating. Small print is all. He had a fairly standard 'time trial, racing' exclusion. All they need to do is mention the n'ring by name to exclude it.
domster said:
He had a fairly standard 'time trial, racing' exclusion.
Which is one reason why Lovejoy's site goes to pains to note that lap timing with a stopwatch is A Bad Idea. If the police attend an accident, they'll include in their report anything they consider noteworthy, such as a running stopwatch. Hey presto - one solid gold get-out clause for your insurer.
Edited by pdV6 on Wednesday 7th June 13:00
Hello,
I've been ringing for about 5 years now and would like to add 2p
The ring is a track, but when it's used for a Touist Fahren (tourist drive), STVO (the German road traffic law) applies.
Because of this, your regular insurance will cover you.... UNLESS THEY EXCLUDE IT. And that's the catch.
Some will exclude nice and clearly by name "Nurburgring" (as the AA do) and some will exclude by "Derestricted Toll Road".
Now the "derestricted toll road" is an interesting one, as it's not derestricted - they have speed limits, the police will issue tickets for dangerous driving (overtaking on the right!), speeding, and other things. For example in this picture taken last weekend you can see a 70kph sign - and they have been known to enforce it. How much do you want to test that though?
I wouldn't subscribe to point of view of the chap who said his insurance mate says its generally accepted that it's not covered as it has to be in writing. "Generally accepted" is too hazy. I have heard (first hand) of a UK insurer failing to pay out and they took them to court as, in German law, it's a standard road at that time. This was only for the third party elements though.
Now your point about going slowly is interesting... I went slowly the other weekend (new car fear factor!) and I was scared sh*tless - the most near misses I have ever had. At the ring you get experienced people and tw*ts. If you go slowly, the tw*ts will catch you up and overtake in the most dangerous way - no matter how much you move out of their way. If you go fast, no tw*ts will catch you up, you'll overtake a few and a few experienced people will overtake you - but you'll be in a lot more control. I put the girlfriend in the cafe with a coffee and had a fast lap - which felt great & not scary.
Thing is, if you haven't been round before you should go slowly...
Insurance in the place is a minefield, but my basic advice would to check the exclusions (or "general conditons" ) of the policy, if it isn't included, you should be alright. However I would be very wary of taking too much advice from an internet forum!
As a previous poster said - use someone else's car & insurance. The Alpha75s sound great.
I've been ringing for about 5 years now and would like to add 2p
The ring is a track, but when it's used for a Touist Fahren (tourist drive), STVO (the German road traffic law) applies.
Because of this, your regular insurance will cover you.... UNLESS THEY EXCLUDE IT. And that's the catch.
Some will exclude nice and clearly by name "Nurburgring" (as the AA do) and some will exclude by "Derestricted Toll Road".
Now the "derestricted toll road" is an interesting one, as it's not derestricted - they have speed limits, the police will issue tickets for dangerous driving (overtaking on the right!), speeding, and other things. For example in this picture taken last weekend you can see a 70kph sign - and they have been known to enforce it. How much do you want to test that though?
I wouldn't subscribe to point of view of the chap who said his insurance mate says its generally accepted that it's not covered as it has to be in writing. "Generally accepted" is too hazy. I have heard (first hand) of a UK insurer failing to pay out and they took them to court as, in German law, it's a standard road at that time. This was only for the third party elements though.
Now your point about going slowly is interesting... I went slowly the other weekend (new car fear factor!) and I was scared sh*tless - the most near misses I have ever had. At the ring you get experienced people and tw*ts. If you go slowly, the tw*ts will catch you up and overtake in the most dangerous way - no matter how much you move out of their way. If you go fast, no tw*ts will catch you up, you'll overtake a few and a few experienced people will overtake you - but you'll be in a lot more control. I put the girlfriend in the cafe with a coffee and had a fast lap - which felt great & not scary.
Thing is, if you haven't been round before you should go slowly...
Insurance in the place is a minefield, but my basic advice would to check the exclusions (or "general conditons" ) of the policy, if it isn't included, you should be alright. However I would be very wary of taking too much advice from an internet forum!
As a previous poster said - use someone else's car & insurance. The Alpha75s sound great.
Edited by pikey on Wednesday 7th June 13:08
m12_nathan said:
Some insurers have started to exclude "derestricted toll roads" apparently, guess it is best to crash on a speed limited section of it to be sure of a payout 
Interesting... would they class the road as a whole or in sections... as a whole it is not a derestricted toll road, but in sections it is derestricted. But then so are some autobahns... and you paid your toll for the whole lap, not just the derestricted sections.
I imagine they'd class it as a whole road, but imagine if not... going from insured to uninsured a couple of times during a lap!
domster said:
I imagine they'd class it as a whole road, but imagine if not... going from insured to uninsured a couple of times during a lap!
Then what happened if you got biffed on an uninsured section - would you try to roll over the line to an insured section? Where does it apply - where the accident happened or where you stopped?!
pdV6 said:
Which is one reason why Lovejoy's site goes to pains to note that lap timing with a stopwatch is A Bad Idea. If the police attend an accident, they'll include in their report anything they consider noteworthy, such as a running stopwatch. Hey presto - one solid gold get-out clause for your insurer.
One reason but not the main. The main reason he's trying to get across if you try and "do" a Clarkson and get round in under 10 minutes, or 8:52, 5:23 or 3:12 you'll end up crashing. No-one gives a hoot about the speed anyone did - and even if they do they can't verify it, so lie!
Timing's red mist, which is bad. Can't imagine that a stop watch was running would invalidate insurance though
I was over there for the public weekend on May bank holiday weekend too... It was my first trip to the ring and as such I took out separate cover with CCI. I 'only' insured my GT3 for £35k because I came to the conclusion that if I did more damage than £40k (£5k excess) I probably wouldn't be around to care.
Just to add to the existing debate - my insurer DOESN'T specifically exclude the ring and I even phoned to ask. They told me that no-one had ever tried to claim for it with them but they could see no reason why the car wouldn't be covered as long as it was a tourist day and NOT a ring track day.
In future I will continue to check the policy exclusions but I don't intent to take separate cover every time I go.... And I WILL be going back a LOT
Steve
Just to add to the existing debate - my insurer DOESN'T specifically exclude the ring and I even phoned to ask. They told me that no-one had ever tried to claim for it with them but they could see no reason why the car wouldn't be covered as long as it was a tourist day and NOT a ring track day.
In future I will continue to check the policy exclusions but I don't intent to take separate cover every time I go.... And I WILL be going back a LOT
Steve
this topic prompted me to check my policy (im planning a trip there later this year), and sure enough, i have the 'de-restricted toll road' clause in my policy...
However, I know track days at places like combe you can take out a days insurance, does the 'ring have anything like that? or is it a case of shopping around specilists in the UK before going?
However, I know track days at places like combe you can take out a days insurance, does the 'ring have anything like that? or is it a case of shopping around specilists in the UK before going?
fidgits said:
this topic prompted me to check my policy (im planning a trip there later this year), and sure enough, i have the 'de-restricted toll road' clause in my policy...
However, I know track days at places like combe you can take out a days insurance, does the 'ring have anything like that? or is it a case of shopping around specilists in the UK before going?
However, I know track days at places like combe you can take out a days insurance, does the 'ring have anything like that? or is it a case of shopping around specilists in the UK before going?
CCI (Competition Car Insurance) is the only one I know of because the tourist days are NOT track days.. its expensive though - roughly £100 per £10k insured value
Steve
pikey said:
Gives them a great excuse to claim you were "time trialling", though.
True. This guy was - I was holding the stop watch for him!
[/quote] its not surprising you crashed though: youre holding a stop watch and hes rinsing your hair and asking you if your going anywhere nice on your holidays. asking for trouble in my humble O.
Surely there is no point in risking a £35K+ car for the sake of a couple of hundred pounds worth of insurance, especially on the say so of a forum.
At the end of the day, only your insurance company knows whether or not they will pay out on a ring claim. You can't claim that you didn't know or any other excuse, their judgement will pretty much be final and that's it.
At the end of the day, only your insurance company knows whether or not they will pay out on a ring claim. You can't claim that you didn't know or any other excuse, their judgement will pretty much be final and that's it.
good point. BUT. i will be there for three days. it is only open for two hours of each day. i will probably only get in three laps a day. this makes it 1500 quid for 9 laps. or 1000 quid an hour. thats quite a lot of money. its not so long ago that i paid less than that for cars. hell, i could replace the wife for that.
*waits to be told its a drop in the ocean compared to price of replacing arms/ cars/ passengers/ the world/ anything even remotely hittable*
*waits to be told its a drop in the ocean compared to price of replacing arms/ cars/ passengers/ the world/ anything even remotely hittable*
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