Clarkson in the Sunday Times on 997TT
Discussion
Harris_I said:
Ok fair enough. But come on... a German... discussing cars.... for an hour?? 
I think the Germans are MUCH more qualified to discuss cars than most since they still have a very healthy car industry and produce the best cars in thw world. I think you need to be a little more openminded and drop the stereotypes for other cultures. I spend loads of time in Germany both working and for pleasure and love their attention to quality and detail which when compared is sadly missing in big measures from virtually all aspects of UK life.
Unfortunately, people like Clarkson try to be too clever to impress and the result is yet another British embarassment.
silver993tt said:
Unfortunately, people like Clarkson try to be too clever to impress and the result is yet another British embarassment.
Mmmm - 
fair opinion, but TG is one of the most popular (biggest selling)TV programs in the world. We all know he's a pompous tw*t (especially when it comes to Porsche), but he is funny, and refreshing un-PC, a recipe for success it would seem....silver993tt said:
Harris_I said:
Ok fair enough. But come on... a German... discussing cars.... for an hour??
I think the Germans are MUCH more qualified to discuss cars than most since they still have a very healthy car industry and produce the best cars in thw world. I think you need to be a little more openminded and drop the stereotypes for other cultures. I spend loads of time in Germany both working and for pleasure and love their attention to quality and detail which when compared is sadly missing in big measures from virtually all aspects of UK life.
Unfortunately, people like Clarkson try to be too clever to impress and the result is yet another British embarassment.
In a country where there's pressure to be cool and "fashionable" (England) and it's not "hip" to be technical- it's no suprise that "Top gear" will be watered down drivle. It's appealing to what people want. Few people in the UK care about hearing that the 997 Turbo has variable geometry turbos (incredible- a first for petrol engines?). This anti technical attitude is also apparent WITHIN the UK automotive industry- with management and meeting going taking presidence over doing the detail ground work properly. This DOES have an impact on the products [don't ask me how I know]. So it doesn't suprise me that the German motoring programmes are more informed (or perhaps less entertaining for the masses), or that that ape Clarkson talks meaningless prejudiced opinionated drivle. I think the Americans assesment of cars is more balanced and meaningful than Clarksons stuff.
The trouble is, the typical Focus buyer in the UK may not want to hear about the technical details of variable geometry turbos of the new Porker or some kind of objective analysis of the great features of this car, however, looking at these boards, I think alot of folks who are in the market for these kinds of cars Do - and no, very few of them are engineers, most are in finance or are doctors.
Edited by Marquis_Rex on Monday 24th July 09:43
There are very few people "championing the cause" of the petrolheads. Fewer still who do it with as little pc as he does.
Just thank your lucky stars he is on our side....and not Kens!!!! As for the 997, I spoke to a salesman at OPC (won't say where for obvious reasons) who had just come back from the launch of the car in spain. In an unguarded moment, he said much the same as JC....a little over-developed?
Even with yesterdays article, if you had one in your garage this morning, you could still sell it for overs - enough said!!
Just thank your lucky stars he is on our side....and not Kens!!!! As for the 997, I spoke to a salesman at OPC (won't say where for obvious reasons) who had just come back from the launch of the car in spain. In an unguarded moment, he said much the same as JC....a little over-developed?
Even with yesterdays article, if you had one in your garage this morning, you could still sell it for overs - enough said!!
DeltaHedge said:
Lets face it the majority of his popularity comes from being controversial. He's well known to not like Porsche's, and has become well known as an Aston fan at the same time, totally conincidentally, that Ford put him on the list of 25 "approved" GT buyers.
Put yourself in the position of the person making the decision of who to give the 25 Ford GT's to. If you don't give a car to Clarkson and he slags Fords of for the next year you will probably be sacked. Of the 100+ people who put their names down for a Ford GT Clarkson is probably the only one on the list where the above statement is true, nobody is going to be sacked because Frank Lampard didn't get a Ford GT.
Please allow me as a german to drop a few words myself:
1) TopGear has a great reputation among motoring enthusiasts over here. But note: Not necessarily as a purely technical magazine, but rather a light-hearted, entertaining, "typically british humoured" car-magazine to produce a few giggles when watching it ( and even more giggles when understanding it
).
2) I agree with people saying, that when it comes down to deciding upon the purchase of a car of that financial impact, there is no real necessity to seriously adapt opinions of the likes of JC or whomever. Most of the people capable of putting that kind of money on the table are used to draw their own conclusions and make their own decisions (well, at least if the wife's not around), so why the h*ck should one really take the notes of others THAT seriously when judging a car of their own ?
3) German motoring magazines are, at least for the last few years, trying eagerly to put a bit of that TopGear-feeling, re: humour, into their productions (with VERY limited success, I may add). Only just recently there has been a "race" between an AUDI S4 and someone heading the same direction in an "ICE" (fast german train). Hmm, THAT certainly rang a bell to me... And the mentioned technical details are most of the times only the summed up reflection of the press departments of the car's manufacturers once again supplying the journalists with all info they possibly could make available. Yeah, just great - especially if you can read all of that in every brochure of that particular car...
4) Us germans maybe perceived as "detail-crazy", but that's what made four-cornered wheels emerge into round ones in the end, didn't it ?! Maybe "island roads" don't need round wheels, as there are
speed regulations over there on your end ?
On a serious note: Just today I parked my 996TT directly near a 997TT standing in front of my Porsche-center (both cars are/were black). I have to say, that both from the rear and the side, the difference was not THAT much and, judging purely from the outside, it would not drive me THAT crazy to let go of my 996TT right away, lose quite some cash and blow even more of that through the chimney - anyhow, I already asked for a trial-drive, and, who knows...
Btw, Porsche is the ONLY german manufacturer who did NOT apply for state subvention when building their new factories near Leipzig, part of the former GDR. CEO Wideking said something like he could not accept subventions, so tax-money, for a luxury product like a Porsche. Nice gesture, eh ?
Cheers from "Porsche-country",
Frank
1) TopGear has a great reputation among motoring enthusiasts over here. But note: Not necessarily as a purely technical magazine, but rather a light-hearted, entertaining, "typically british humoured" car-magazine to produce a few giggles when watching it ( and even more giggles when understanding it
). 2) I agree with people saying, that when it comes down to deciding upon the purchase of a car of that financial impact, there is no real necessity to seriously adapt opinions of the likes of JC or whomever. Most of the people capable of putting that kind of money on the table are used to draw their own conclusions and make their own decisions (well, at least if the wife's not around), so why the h*ck should one really take the notes of others THAT seriously when judging a car of their own ?
3) German motoring magazines are, at least for the last few years, trying eagerly to put a bit of that TopGear-feeling, re: humour, into their productions (with VERY limited success, I may add). Only just recently there has been a "race" between an AUDI S4 and someone heading the same direction in an "ICE" (fast german train). Hmm, THAT certainly rang a bell to me... And the mentioned technical details are most of the times only the summed up reflection of the press departments of the car's manufacturers once again supplying the journalists with all info they possibly could make available. Yeah, just great - especially if you can read all of that in every brochure of that particular car...
4) Us germans maybe perceived as "detail-crazy", but that's what made four-cornered wheels emerge into round ones in the end, didn't it ?! Maybe "island roads" don't need round wheels, as there are
speed regulations over there on your end ?
On a serious note: Just today I parked my 996TT directly near a 997TT standing in front of my Porsche-center (both cars are/were black). I have to say, that both from the rear and the side, the difference was not THAT much and, judging purely from the outside, it would not drive me THAT crazy to let go of my 996TT right away, lose quite some cash and blow even more of that through the chimney - anyhow, I already asked for a trial-drive, and, who knows...
Btw, Porsche is the ONLY german manufacturer who did NOT apply for state subvention when building their new factories near Leipzig, part of the former GDR. CEO Wideking said something like he could not accept subventions, so tax-money, for a luxury product like a Porsche. Nice gesture, eh ?
Cheers from "Porsche-country",
Frank
silver993tt said:
Harris_I said:
Ok fair enough. But come on... a German... discussing cars.... for an hour??
I think the Germans are MUCH more qualified to discuss cars than most since they still have a very healthy car industry and produce the best cars in thw world. I think you need to be a little more openminded and drop the stereotypes for other cultures. I spend loads of time in Germany both working and for pleasure and love their attention to quality and detail which when compared is sadly missing in big measures from virtually all aspects of UK life.
Unfortunately, people like Clarkson try to be too clever to impress and the result is yet another British embarassment.
Perhaps I should have put a few more smilies in there. Apologies - not my intention to be malicious. In fact I work for a large German firm, so I have first hand knowledge of how extremely courteous the Germans are. However, stereotypes do exist and one of them is that there is probably no nation on earth with better attention to detail and engineering excellence than the Germans. It also means that German cars may be empirically the best in the world, but it's that super efficiency that loses some sales.
Look. Clarkson is a funny man (at least some people think so). That's what he does for a living, and that's why Top Gear is such a hugely successful export to the rest of the world. His qualities as an entertainer are the reason why 80% of his column is just a build up to the main point (somewhat tangentially related to cars). Why does it bother people that he couldn't get on with the 997 turbo? Why do we care? He's no LJK Setright, nor even one of the better pedallers in the motoring press. If Joe Public sees you with a 997 turbo on the street, he's hardly likely to say "Psshh, based on what Clarkson said, what a load of crap, I would rather be driving my Mondeo".
As has already been said, those with 100k to splash on a car are hardly the kind of people likely to be swayed by a comedian.
Harris_I said:
silver993tt said:
Harris_I said:
Ok fair enough. But come on... a German... discussing cars.... for an hour??
I think the Germans are MUCH more qualified to discuss cars than most since they still have a very healthy car industry and produce the best cars in thw world. I think you need to be a little more openminded and drop the stereotypes for other cultures. I spend loads of time in Germany both working and for pleasure and love their attention to quality and detail which when compared is sadly missing in big measures from virtually all aspects of UK life.
Unfortunately, people like Clarkson try to be too clever to impress and the result is yet another British embarassment.
Perhaps I should have put a few more smilies in there. Apologies - not my intention to be malicious. In fact I work for a large German firm, so I have first hand knowledge of how extremely courteous the Germans are. However, stereotypes do exist and one of them is that there is probably no nation on earth with better attention to detail and engineering excellence than the Germans. It also means that German cars may be empirically the best in the world, but it's that super efficiency that loses some sales.
Look. Clarkson is a funny man (at least some people think so). That's what he does for a living, and that's why Top Gear is such a hugely successful export to the rest of the world. His qualities as an entertainer are the reason why 80% of his column is just a build up to the main point (somewhat tangentially related to cars). Why does it bother people that he couldn't get on with the 997 turbo? Why do we care? He's no LJK Setright, nor even one of the better pedallers in the motoring press. If Joe Public sees you with a 997 turbo on the street, he's hardly likely to say "Psshh, based on what Clarkson said, what a load of crap, I would rather be driving my Mondeo".
As has already been said, those with 100k to splash on a car are hardly the kind of people likely to be swayed by a comedian.
But that is exactly my point, he isn't a comedian. He has no nautral skills as a comedian. It's all very false. His regular comments about Germans, French etc are not only insulting but show him as completely out of touch and out of date.
You know, now that Ive hit 30 I must be going a little bit senile. I read Clarkson everyweek in the Sunday Times, so I know what to expect in his spread.
Now, can someone pls tell me how ... "Id have called it the Porsche Jesus Christ Almighty Look At That Bastard Go" is an insult? If I were Porsche Id cut and paste that and be hanging it up in every OPC in the land in 1ft high highlighted lettering on banners.
Speaking at a 997tt on-order-and-cannot-bloody-wait type I *love* that description!
As to whether it is souless or not, dunno, but I cant wait to find out!
Oh and er nope I dont remember Tiff reviewing the 996tt and to be honest I actually know anybody who does either.
Now, can someone pls tell me how ... "Id have called it the Porsche Jesus Christ Almighty Look At That Bastard Go" is an insult? If I were Porsche Id cut and paste that and be hanging it up in every OPC in the land in 1ft high highlighted lettering on banners.
Speaking at a 997tt on-order-and-cannot-bloody-wait type I *love* that description!
As to whether it is souless or not, dunno, but I cant wait to find out!
Oh and er nope I dont remember Tiff reviewing the 996tt and to be honest I actually know anybody who does either.
t that cant drive (very funny bloke though)but dont take him seriously coz if its got a Porsche badge in his view its crap...and he bought a gt40He liked the GT3 MkII (and GT3 RS), you'll be pleased to hear Kay C.
Maybe he just thought it was fast but boring compared to Gallardo/430, as he said. Seems fair enough to me as those cars are more about fun, weekend cars whereas a TT is meant to be an all-rounder and relatively discrete. Horses for courses.
Maybe he just thought it was fast but boring compared to Gallardo/430, as he said. Seems fair enough to me as those cars are more about fun, weekend cars whereas a TT is meant to be an all-rounder and relatively discrete. Horses for courses.
AL001 said:
He liked the GT3 MkII (and GT3 RS), you'll be pleased to hear Kay C.
Maybe he just thought it was fast but boring compared to Gallardo/430, as he said. Seems fair enough to me as those cars are more about fun, weekend cars whereas a TT is meant to be an all-rounder and relatively discrete. Horses for courses.
The fact he likes the gt3/rs and bought a gt40 pleases me even more..he's like a kid with a new impressive toy that loses interest after 3 weeks fun .His rubbish comments along with other motoring journalists 'short-term' and mis-informed opinions is what costs proper punters lots of money.Clarkson loves the gt40...bought one ,now thinks its shite,and basically spent taxpayers money on a view..probably cost people that listened to him 20k overnight. Maybe he just thought it was fast but boring compared to Gallardo/430, as he said. Seems fair enough to me as those cars are more about fun, weekend cars whereas a TT is meant to be an all-rounder and relatively discrete. Horses for courses.
Edited by kayc on Monday 24th July 15:19
Edited by kayc on Monday 24th July 15:20
It is true that his views along with other ill informed journalists effects the residuals of our cars....
How people think of cars or even rememeber them is mainly coloured by the opinions of car magazines or else MGBs and Dolomite Sprints wouldn't achieve the second hand values they do!
How people think of cars or even rememeber them is mainly coloured by the opinions of car magazines or else MGBs and Dolomite Sprints wouldn't achieve the second hand values they do!
clubsport said:
usual story with clarkson not being a 911 fan....
http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/arti
Thought Jeremy was spot on..........Buy the new Vette with £40K change NO BRAINER...........
I have up to now turned down the offer of a test drive, so can't directly comment....but the conclusion is as I would have expected.
http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/arti
Thought Jeremy was spot on..........Buy the new Vette with £40K change NO BRAINER...........
I have up to now turned down the offer of a test drive, so can't directly comment....but the conclusion is as I would have expected.
Jeremy Clarkson said:
I’m sorry, but how complete does your life have to be for you to worry about the colour of your brake callipers?
that's not complete. complete is when you worry that the colour of your calipers doesn't match the contrasting stitching on you fully leathered up interior and you lose that sense of continuity. IT DOES MATTER!
Doesn't he currently own a GT3 MkI in metallic red ?
And ran a Mercedes whilst he ran-down Mercedes dealers ?
(Maybe that's why !)
And let's be honest, if you were given a Lambo to play with for free with the rest of World's manufacturers queueing up for your 10 words worth, mightn't a 997 Turbo seem a little --- unexciting ?
And it certainly isn't the greatest looker.
Hence the show is slipping into caravan slapstick and random vehicle mutilation ..... ?
And ran a Mercedes whilst he ran-down Mercedes dealers ?
(Maybe that's why !)
And let's be honest, if you were given a Lambo to play with for free with the rest of World's manufacturers queueing up for your 10 words worth, mightn't a 997 Turbo seem a little --- unexciting ?
And it certainly isn't the greatest looker.
Hence the show is slipping into caravan slapstick and random vehicle mutilation ..... ?
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