Threat to Porsche Audi R8
Discussion
Audi could afford to allow the R8 to sell in far greater volumes than they could dream of selling Lambo's, without diluting the brand.
Porsche (excluding GT* exotica) are now into the volume market as well.
Hence I see the R8 enhancing Audi at the cost of Porsche (and top BMW models), without compromising the position of Lambo.
It would be rather like Porsche buying Aston Martin to make them relaible and give them a premium brand. After all, nobody could ever say that the 911 range is prettier than the AMV8. It's engineering v. style.
Porsche (excluding GT* exotica) are now into the volume market as well.
Hence I see the R8 enhancing Audi at the cost of Porsche (and top BMW models), without compromising the position of Lambo.
It would be rather like Porsche buying Aston Martin to make them relaible and give them a premium brand. After all, nobody could ever say that the 911 range is prettier than the AMV8. It's engineering v. style.
I know that Lambos are now of quality since Audi took over, but they just leave me cold - I mean what are they for? No luggage space = no GT - can't tour with one. You have to break the speed limit to have any fun (quite unlike the boxster), and there's no visible racing series.
It's a bit like the mega-bucks Mercedes stuff, interesting but oh so dull, you'd have more fun on a mountain road in an old RGV250 or Fiat Barchetta.
When speed is made to be so dull 737s do it best as a steady 600mph, I think it's nice to have a car with sone character, power or no power if it makes me smile less than a ford focus then it isn't really worth any more money... that's what makes the early and 993 911s so interesting to drive, the way they can reward you in a corner when you get it right, the feedback from the road, the comfort and convenience, the shapes and almost aero character when you sit at the wheel and look at the long wings stretching straight ahead.
An interesting drive is also what makes the boxster - but at £40k for a new S, the old 993 and older are looking pretty attractive now
It's a bit like the mega-bucks Mercedes stuff, interesting but oh so dull, you'd have more fun on a mountain road in an old RGV250 or Fiat Barchetta.
When speed is made to be so dull 737s do it best as a steady 600mph, I think it's nice to have a car with sone character, power or no power if it makes me smile less than a ford focus then it isn't really worth any more money... that's what makes the early and 993 911s so interesting to drive, the way they can reward you in a corner when you get it right, the feedback from the road, the comfort and convenience, the shapes and almost aero character when you sit at the wheel and look at the long wings stretching straight ahead.
An interesting drive is also what makes the boxster - but at £40k for a new S, the old 993 and older are looking pretty attractive now
Porsche name is no where near as charismatic as it once was, the number of similar looking cars produced and the Cayenne has seen to this......with Audi's absolute dominance with the R10, the desirability gap between the two marques is narrowing (unfortunately), especially when you consider build quality.
Los Angeles said:
silver993tt said:
another 911 "killer"? This was said about the AMV8 (I still have one of the magazines with that stated on the front page before it was launched) and that failed. There have been so many of these "killers" and all have failed in that quest.
The "Noisy Car Company build a Porsche Beater" headline is a staple of hack journalism.
Porsche through VW owns Audi; a better car dynamically than Audi could design is a possibility with Porsche input, proclaiming it a Porsche beater is a joke worthy of Borat. Audis are aimed at a completely different market. Not even Audi executives would want their fine family cars to move into Porsche territory.
While I agree with some of the above, I sell Audis and Porsches. I think it is far from a joke.
The Audi is a volume quality car with engineering to match all but the finest.
Bear in mind that although Porsche shares some technology with some of VW group's suppliers (hence the sharing of Cayenne/Toureg/Q7 platform and some other parts) it has no controlling share over VW group and vice-versa.
The bottom line is that the R8 is meant to be a Gallardo competitor, with the Audi backup and affordability, not a 911 competitor.
Indeed it is the Lamo connection that is most important. Based on the same Audi space frame as the Lambo which Audi produce in Ingolstadt, available with the Audi re-badged version of Lamborghini E-gear (now called R-tronic in the R8). But launched at least with the 4.2 V8 closely related to the RS4 motor.
We've taken orders for 2 already, and I hope others get behind it.
However, it won't replace anyone's 911 as a useable, developed, sports grand tourer with luggage capacity and the prestige of the Porsche brand. Hence the car is roughly the price of a GT3, not a Gallardo.
Andrew Dryburgh
Grrr 911, don't believe everything you read ... I have a 997 C2S and i don't like it one bit. Its supposed to be the fun car in my garage and yet whenever we go out anywhere we take the Golf.
It rattles like a box of bolts on startup and is as unpredictable as an unpredictable thing.
Wet, greasy roads + 911 = either dull PSM assisted driving or close association with a tree.
A little bit of left foot coming into a roundabout, keeping your foot on the throttle to balance things up and suddenly you realise you have left PSM on .... argh ..... the car makes the decision that you are really tring to brake and relives you of throttle control and hey presto you either lose all your speed or, if you were really pushing, then end up facing the other way.
Driving back home last night I hit a puddle on the motorway, nothing I could do, saw it too late. It was only a shallow one but it was quite long. Ease the throttle to keep the car steady, tight grip of the steering and we should be fine. The left hand wheels hit it, everything OK, then the PSM kicked in thinking something had gone wrong, did its braking "magic" to straighten things up and left me straddling the white lines between the middle and outer lane.
Its final part piece. A long sweeping corner, opposite camber and a bad bit of tarmac in the middle. Views for miles. Head in there at a legals speeed honest officer, load up the car in the corner, let the front slip slightly as it hits the bad tarmac, ignore this, let the back end go as it hits the bad tarmac, dial in the opposit and voila, instant drift expert. No skill required. That was in my Esprit. Now in my 911, do the same all hell brakes loose and the only things you get are a cold sweat running down your spine and a 30mph exit speed.
I don't care, I'm chopping my 997 in, R8 here I come. It can't be worse and it looks so much better.
997 for sale if anyone wants it, I'm driving the Golf in the interim.
It rattles like a box of bolts on startup and is as unpredictable as an unpredictable thing.
Wet, greasy roads + 911 = either dull PSM assisted driving or close association with a tree.
A little bit of left foot coming into a roundabout, keeping your foot on the throttle to balance things up and suddenly you realise you have left PSM on .... argh ..... the car makes the decision that you are really tring to brake and relives you of throttle control and hey presto you either lose all your speed or, if you were really pushing, then end up facing the other way.
Driving back home last night I hit a puddle on the motorway, nothing I could do, saw it too late. It was only a shallow one but it was quite long. Ease the throttle to keep the car steady, tight grip of the steering and we should be fine. The left hand wheels hit it, everything OK, then the PSM kicked in thinking something had gone wrong, did its braking "magic" to straighten things up and left me straddling the white lines between the middle and outer lane.
Its final part piece. A long sweeping corner, opposite camber and a bad bit of tarmac in the middle. Views for miles. Head in there at a legals speeed honest officer, load up the car in the corner, let the front slip slightly as it hits the bad tarmac, ignore this, let the back end go as it hits the bad tarmac, dial in the opposit and voila, instant drift expert. No skill required. That was in my Esprit. Now in my 911, do the same all hell brakes loose and the only things you get are a cold sweat running down your spine and a 30mph exit speed.
I don't care, I'm chopping my 997 in, R8 here I come. It can't be worse and it looks so much better.
997 for sale if anyone wants it, I'm driving the Golf in the interim.
rockyr said:
Grrr 911, don't believe everything you read ... I have a 997 C2S and i don't like it one bit. Its supposed to be the fun car in my garage and yet whenever we go out anywhere we take the Golf.
It rattles like a box of bolts on startup and is as unpredictable as an unpredictable thing.
Wet, greasy roads + 911 = either dull PSM assisted driving or close association with a tree.
A little bit of left foot coming into a roundabout, keeping your foot on the throttle to balance things up and suddenly you realise you have left PSM on .... argh ..... the car makes the decision that you are really tring to brake and relives you of throttle control and hey presto you either lose all your speed or, if you were really pushing, then end up facing the other way.
Driving back home last night I hit a puddle on the motorway, nothing I could do, saw it too late. It was only a shallow one but it was quite long. Ease the throttle to keep the car steady, tight grip of the steering and we should be fine. The left hand wheels hit it, everything OK, then the PSM kicked in thinking something had gone wrong, did its braking "magic" to straighten things up and left me straddling the white lines between the middle and outer lane.
Its final part piece. A long sweeping corner, opposite camber and a bad bit of tarmac in the middle. Views for miles. Head in there at a legals speeed honest officer, load up the car in the corner, let the front slip slightly as it hits the bad tarmac, ignore this, let the back end go as it hits the bad tarmac, dial in the opposit and voila, instant drift expert. No skill required. That was in my Esprit. Now in my 911, do the same all hell brakes loose and the only things you get are a cold sweat running down your spine and a 30mph exit speed.
I don't care, I'm chopping my 997 in, R8 here I come. It can't be worse and it looks so much better.
997 for sale if anyone wants it, I'm driving the Golf in the interim.
It rattles like a box of bolts on startup and is as unpredictable as an unpredictable thing.
Wet, greasy roads + 911 = either dull PSM assisted driving or close association with a tree.
A little bit of left foot coming into a roundabout, keeping your foot on the throttle to balance things up and suddenly you realise you have left PSM on .... argh ..... the car makes the decision that you are really tring to brake and relives you of throttle control and hey presto you either lose all your speed or, if you were really pushing, then end up facing the other way.
Driving back home last night I hit a puddle on the motorway, nothing I could do, saw it too late. It was only a shallow one but it was quite long. Ease the throttle to keep the car steady, tight grip of the steering and we should be fine. The left hand wheels hit it, everything OK, then the PSM kicked in thinking something had gone wrong, did its braking "magic" to straighten things up and left me straddling the white lines between the middle and outer lane.
Its final part piece. A long sweeping corner, opposite camber and a bad bit of tarmac in the middle. Views for miles. Head in there at a legals speeed honest officer, load up the car in the corner, let the front slip slightly as it hits the bad tarmac, ignore this, let the back end go as it hits the bad tarmac, dial in the opposit and voila, instant drift expert. No skill required. That was in my Esprit. Now in my 911, do the same all hell brakes loose and the only things you get are a cold sweat running down your spine and a 30mph exit speed.
I don't care, I'm chopping my 997 in, R8 here I come. It can't be worse and it looks so much better.
997 for sale if anyone wants it, I'm driving the Golf in the interim.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
rockyr said:
Grrr 911, don't believe everything you read ... I have a 997 C2S and i don't like it one bit. Its supposed to be the fun car in my garage and yet whenever we go out anywhere we take the Golf.
It rattles like a box of bolts on startup and is as unpredictable as an unpredictable thing.
Wet, greasy roads + 911 = either dull PSM assisted driving or close association with a tree.
A little bit of left foot coming into a roundabout, keeping your foot on the throttle to balance things up and suddenly you realise you have left PSM on .... argh ..... the car makes the decision that you are really tring to brake and relives you of throttle control and hey presto you either lose all your speed or, if you were really pushing, then end up facing the other way.
Driving back home last night I hit a puddle on the motorway, nothing I could do, saw it too late. It was only a shallow one but it was quite long. Ease the throttle to keep the car steady, tight grip of the steering and we should be fine. The left hand wheels hit it, everything OK, then the PSM kicked in thinking something had gone wrong, did its braking "magic" to straighten things up and left me straddling the white lines between the middle and outer lane.
Its final part piece. A long sweeping corner, opposite camber and a bad bit of tarmac in the middle. Views for miles. Head in there at a legals speeed honest officer, load up the car in the corner, let the front slip slightly as it hits the bad tarmac, ignore this, let the back end go as it hits the bad tarmac, dial in the opposit and voila, instant drift expert. No skill required. That was in my Esprit. Now in my 911, do the same all hell brakes loose and the only things you get are a cold sweat running down your spine and a 30mph exit speed.
I don't care, I'm chopping my 997 in, R8 here I come. It can't be worse and it looks so much better.
997 for sale if anyone wants it, I'm driving the Golf in the interim.
Don't sell! All that you decribe can easily be sorted! There's obviously a malfunction in a pretty major componenent. It can be found located just behind the steering wheel of your 997. Symptoms include a continuous meaningless moaning noise but can be sorted fairly easily with some very basic 'rebooting'.It rattles like a box of bolts on startup and is as unpredictable as an unpredictable thing.
Wet, greasy roads + 911 = either dull PSM assisted driving or close association with a tree.
A little bit of left foot coming into a roundabout, keeping your foot on the throttle to balance things up and suddenly you realise you have left PSM on .... argh ..... the car makes the decision that you are really tring to brake and relives you of throttle control and hey presto you either lose all your speed or, if you were really pushing, then end up facing the other way.
Driving back home last night I hit a puddle on the motorway, nothing I could do, saw it too late. It was only a shallow one but it was quite long. Ease the throttle to keep the car steady, tight grip of the steering and we should be fine. The left hand wheels hit it, everything OK, then the PSM kicked in thinking something had gone wrong, did its braking "magic" to straighten things up and left me straddling the white lines between the middle and outer lane.
Its final part piece. A long sweeping corner, opposite camber and a bad bit of tarmac in the middle. Views for miles. Head in there at a legals speeed honest officer, load up the car in the corner, let the front slip slightly as it hits the bad tarmac, ignore this, let the back end go as it hits the bad tarmac, dial in the opposit and voila, instant drift expert. No skill required. That was in my Esprit. Now in my 911, do the same all hell brakes loose and the only things you get are a cold sweat running down your spine and a 30mph exit speed.
I don't care, I'm chopping my 997 in, R8 here I come. It can't be worse and it looks so much better.
997 for sale if anyone wants it, I'm driving the Golf in the interim.
Most people on this forum are enthusiasts - not so the majority of Porsche owners.....
Porsche have positioned themselves very favourably in the prestige car market, and have almost created their own 'niche'- a great target for the likes of Audi etc. In creating cars (996 - 997)that appeal to the masses, the cars have lost alot of the inherent uniqueness of old, that set Porsche apart. It's now alot easier to create a car that will challenge it (although admittedly no one has, as yet). Audi appear to be on the right track with creations such as the new RS4 and TT clearly showing much more driver appeal than their cars of old.....
All IMHO - of course.....
Porsche have positioned themselves very favourably in the prestige car market, and have almost created their own 'niche'- a great target for the likes of Audi etc. In creating cars (996 - 997)that appeal to the masses, the cars have lost alot of the inherent uniqueness of old, that set Porsche apart. It's now alot easier to create a car that will challenge it (although admittedly no one has, as yet). Audi appear to be on the right track with creations such as the new RS4 and TT clearly showing much more driver appeal than their cars of old.....
All IMHO - of course.....
mbutchers said:
Most people on this forum are enthusiasts - not so the majority of Porsche owners.....
Porsche have positioned themselves very favourably in the prestige car market, and have almost created their own 'niche'- a great target for the likes of Audi etc. In creating cars (996 - 997)that appeal to the masses, the cars have lost alot of the inherent uniqueness of old, that set Porsche apart. It's now alot easier to create a car that will challenge it (although admittedly no one has, as yet). Audi appear to be on the right track with creations such as the new RS4 and TT clearly showing much more driver appeal than their cars of old.....
All IMHO - of course.....
I agree,its very disappointing to see a company like Porsche producing such run of the mill cars and giving the competition a chance to compete with them...when cars the like 930,964,993 turbo were being produced they were bought by enthusiasts as a special thing and really had few competitors..now you get the 996tt/ 997tt being used as a kids runabout coz some birds husbands got too much money.'What would you like darling?Audi tt?Merc sl?M3?,or how about a 911? that will look good at the school gates and they are very easy to drive now you know,not like the old Porsches'. Porsche have positioned themselves very favourably in the prestige car market, and have almost created their own 'niche'- a great target for the likes of Audi etc. In creating cars (996 - 997)that appeal to the masses, the cars have lost alot of the inherent uniqueness of old, that set Porsche apart. It's now alot easier to create a car that will challenge it (although admittedly no one has, as yet). Audi appear to be on the right track with creations such as the new RS4 and TT clearly showing much more driver appeal than their cars of old.....
All IMHO - of course.....
:-) Usual ill informed rubbish. Do you have one ? I picked a Porsche as I couldn't find anything else on the market to fill that gap after my Esprit started to fall apart faster than I could fix it.
My past cars have been a Quattro, 2 Esprits, 2 Elans (original) (a +2S and + 2S/130 - gorgeous) and currently a quarter share on an Atom, a Golf GTi runabout and a 911 997 C2S which is now for sale if anyone wants to make an offer, see below.
The 997 is the biggest disappointment of my life ... I was expecting so much. Sure it can be rewarding on the track but on the road its something else. To get fun you have to drive hard and fast, driving hard and fast requires you to turn the PSM off otherwise it does unpredictable things, turning that off turns it back into what it basically is, a flawed car with the weight too far out the back ... its a very very fast car for an expert driver on the track, me, I have about 10 years of racing under my belt mainly off road stuff and its just not for me.
Bottom line all of you put your money where your mouth is boys, if its so good its up for sale, make me an offer. I'm selling and keeping my eye on the R8.
997 C2S
Arctic Silver
05 plate
Manual Short Shift Gear Box
12k miles
PCM NAV
BOSE
Red Seat Belts
Sport Chrono Pack Plus
19" Carerra Plus wheels
Cruise
Sunroof
Full Carbon interior pack incl door sills
RAC TrackStar
My past cars have been a Quattro, 2 Esprits, 2 Elans (original) (a +2S and + 2S/130 - gorgeous) and currently a quarter share on an Atom, a Golf GTi runabout and a 911 997 C2S which is now for sale if anyone wants to make an offer, see below.
The 997 is the biggest disappointment of my life ... I was expecting so much. Sure it can be rewarding on the track but on the road its something else. To get fun you have to drive hard and fast, driving hard and fast requires you to turn the PSM off otherwise it does unpredictable things, turning that off turns it back into what it basically is, a flawed car with the weight too far out the back ... its a very very fast car for an expert driver on the track, me, I have about 10 years of racing under my belt mainly off road stuff and its just not for me.
Bottom line all of you put your money where your mouth is boys, if its so good its up for sale, make me an offer. I'm selling and keeping my eye on the R8.
997 C2S
Arctic Silver
05 plate
Manual Short Shift Gear Box
12k miles
PCM NAV
BOSE
Red Seat Belts
Sport Chrono Pack Plus
19" Carerra Plus wheels
Cruise
Sunroof
Full Carbon interior pack incl door sills
RAC TrackStar
rockyr said:
:-) Usual ill informed rubbish. Do you have one ? I picked a Porsche as I couldn't find anything else on the market to fill that gap after my Esprit started to fall apart faster than I could fix it.
My past cars have been a Quattro, 2 Esprits, 2 Elans (original) (a +2S and + 2S/130 - gorgeous) and currently a quarter share on an Atom, a Golf GTi runabout and a 911 997 C2S which is now for sale if anyone wants to make an offer, see below.
The 997 is the biggest disappointment of my life ... I was expecting so much. Sure it can be rewarding on the track but on the road its something else. To get fun you have to drive hard and fast, driving hard and fast requires you to turn the PSM off otherwise it does unpredictable things, turning that off turns it back into what it basically is, a flawed car with the weight too far out the back ... its a very very fast car for an expert driver on the track, me, I have about 10 years of racing under my belt mainly off road stuff and its just not for me.
Bottom line all of you put your money where your mouth is boys, if its so good its up for sale, make me an offer. I'm selling and keeping my eye on the R8.
997 C2S
Arctic Silver
05 plate
Manual Short Shift Gear Box
12k miles
PCM NAV
BOSE
Red Seat Belts
Sport Chrono Pack Plus
19" Carerra Plus wheels
Cruise
Sunroof
Full Carbon interior pack incl door sills
RAC TrackStar
Yes i do have one,not a 997 though,but it is clearly more sorted than yours.You've just slagged off your 997 on this forum and now you try to sell it to someone on this forum..not a great sales plan.997 as an Esprit alternative is actually a fairly interesting concept,surely there is some car out there that relates more to an Esprit than a 997?Hyundai coupe perhaps? My past cars have been a Quattro, 2 Esprits, 2 Elans (original) (a +2S and + 2S/130 - gorgeous) and currently a quarter share on an Atom, a Golf GTi runabout and a 911 997 C2S which is now for sale if anyone wants to make an offer, see below.
The 997 is the biggest disappointment of my life ... I was expecting so much. Sure it can be rewarding on the track but on the road its something else. To get fun you have to drive hard and fast, driving hard and fast requires you to turn the PSM off otherwise it does unpredictable things, turning that off turns it back into what it basically is, a flawed car with the weight too far out the back ... its a very very fast car for an expert driver on the track, me, I have about 10 years of racing under my belt mainly off road stuff and its just not for me.
Bottom line all of you put your money where your mouth is boys, if its so good its up for sale, make me an offer. I'm selling and keeping my eye on the R8.
997 C2S
Arctic Silver
05 plate
Manual Short Shift Gear Box
12k miles
PCM NAV
BOSE
Red Seat Belts
Sport Chrono Pack Plus
19" Carerra Plus wheels
Cruise
Sunroof
Full Carbon interior pack incl door sills
RAC TrackStar
Lotus / Hyundai Harsh Maybe in build quality you are right. The Esprit is a gorgeous, rewarding and preditable car to drive and I would heartily recommend anyone to drive one. Owning an Esprit is a different matter, you need a decent toolkit, double jointed arms and deep pockets. The Esprit ss also a lot rarer than the 997, pulling up at service stations in the 997 in London is often confusing when you come out and see 2 identical cars on the forecourt and have to click the keyfob to see which rep mobile is yours.
I'm not going to be able to sell it on this forum am I ? I mean, how many of these people actually have a driving licence ? It would take an age to save the paper round money. ;-) ... joke ... its a joke .. I know most people on here have money and a driving licence ... its just a sense of humour they lack (also a joke).
The 997 is a good car, a great sports car for about town and on the track. On the road you have to drive too fast for any serious fun when in PSM mode and if you happen to try and slide it or heaven forbid left foot brake then its not always very happy about it and its an expensive way to do landscape gardening if you get it wrong. In non PSM mode its very tail happy and driving round wet muddy country lanes and coming out of them back end first gets the heart racing but its not the direction I prefer travelling in.
On the track, if I make a mistake, then punish me ... on the road I want something balanced and predictable. Perhaps I am too old / impatient for a 911.
Anyway, any takers ? Not been on here before and getting slagged already. Anyone fancy owning one of these superb motors ? Seriously though, what are PistonHead classifieds like for shifting cars ? Last time I sold through AutoTrader I got a whole load of tyre kickers and joy riders. Don't fancy getting bombarded by people just wanting to get a ride in their poster car.
Maybe in build quality you are right. The Esprit is a gorgeous, rewarding and preditable car to drive and I would heartily recommend anyone to drive one. Owning an Esprit is a different matter, you need a decent toolkit, double jointed arms and deep pockets. The Esprit ss also a lot rarer than the 997, pulling up at service stations in the 997 in London is often confusing when you come out and see 2 identical cars on the forecourt and have to click the keyfob to see which rep mobile is yours. I'm not going to be able to sell it on this forum am I ? I mean, how many of these people actually have a driving licence ? It would take an age to save the paper round money. ;-) ... joke ... its a joke .. I know most people on here have money and a driving licence ... its just a sense of humour they lack (also a joke).
The 997 is a good car, a great sports car for about town and on the track. On the road you have to drive too fast for any serious fun when in PSM mode and if you happen to try and slide it or heaven forbid left foot brake then its not always very happy about it and its an expensive way to do landscape gardening if you get it wrong. In non PSM mode its very tail happy and driving round wet muddy country lanes and coming out of them back end first gets the heart racing but its not the direction I prefer travelling in.
On the track, if I make a mistake, then punish me ... on the road I want something balanced and predictable. Perhaps I am too old / impatient for a 911.
Anyway, any takers ? Not been on here before and getting slagged already. Anyone fancy owning one of these superb motors ? Seriously though, what are PistonHead classifieds like for shifting cars ? Last time I sold through AutoTrader I got a whole load of tyre kickers and joy riders. Don't fancy getting bombarded by people just wanting to get a ride in their poster car.
rockyr
Have a go in a GT3 - you will then be enlightened how good the Porsche Brand is once again
Its a awesome car thet rewards you every time you turn the key !
It makes you feel alive with that flat 6 screaming at 7,000 RPM
I changed my 997 C2S for a fully loaded 996 Turbo - that was a step forward not a step back
tim
Have a go in a GT3 - you will then be enlightened how good the Porsche Brand is once again
Its a awesome car thet rewards you every time you turn the key !
It makes you feel alive with that flat 6 screaming at 7,000 RPM
I changed my 997 C2S for a fully loaded 996 Turbo - that was a step forward not a step back
tim
Seriously ? Is it a 997 issue that its just too "nannying" in PSM mode ? Is there a huge difference between the 996 and the 997 ?
I drove the C4S and the C2S 997's before deciding and liked the C2S more, the C4S felt very front heavy going into corners. The C2S felt more agile but slightly more "lively".
Anyway, I have fallen out of love with my car in a big way to the point of selling before I even get a replacement.
I drove the C4S and the C2S 997's before deciding and liked the C2S more, the C4S felt very front heavy going into corners. The C2S felt more agile but slightly more "lively".
Anyway, I have fallen out of love with my car in a big way to the point of selling before I even get a replacement.
Doh ! Suddenly the penny drops .... I am new to posting on PH (read it often) and was excited by the R8 ... ended up on this thread through Google and registered / posted.
I didn't realise I was posting in the Porsche forum .... sorry guys. Possibly not the best arena in which to vent my frustrations with my current car.
I didn't realise I was posting in the Porsche forum .... sorry guys. Possibly not the best arena in which to vent my frustrations with my current car.
After seeing the R8 in the flesh - whoever buys one will have one hell of
a good looking car and side by side the 911 shape will not even get a glance
unless you have a Viper Green /Orange 997 RS
tim
well done Audi !
PS - I had one the first batch Audi TTs in the country and that was a refreshing looking car 1st time you saw the thing - I sold mine after I followed 3 into work and one was our PA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
a good looking car and side by side the 911 shape will not even get a glance
unless you have a Viper Green /Orange 997 RS
tim
well done Audi !
PS - I had one the first batch Audi TTs in the country and that was a refreshing looking car 1st time you saw the thing - I sold mine after I followed 3 into work and one was our PA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
rockyr said:
Doh ! Suddenly the penny drops .... I am new to posting on PH (read it often) and was excited by the R8 ... ended up on this thread through Google and registered / posted.
I didn't realise I was posting in the Porsche forum .... sorry guys. Possibly not the best arena in which to vent my frustrations with my current car.
I didn't realise I was posting in the Porsche forum .... sorry guys. Possibly not the best arena in which to vent my frustrations with my current car.
ha ha! au contraire though, some here will just fight back if you criticise the beloved 911 (fair enough if people are just baiting which you don't appear to be) however I found your criticism of PSM interesting. Had a PSM-equipped Boxster S and thought it was a very good TC system but had not experienced the issues you had but maybe it works better in a mid-engine layout.
Come to think of it I reckon a Cayman/Boxster might be far more what you are looking for if all out power is not your main concern.
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