993 buying advice
Discussion
A new 350Z would be the decison of the head, the 993 the decision of the heart. I think this is what Paul was getting at, ie it depends on the kind of person you are.
I went with my heart and bought a Lotus Carlton instead of a new Mondeo ST24. I endured a world of pain running that sh1t box, but I suppose that is where passion for cars gets you - in the bank manager's office begging for an overdraft extension and in the spare room after the missus gets fed up with your autolunacy.
As a sensible, low running cost car, a new 350Z would spank a 10 year old 993. For charisma, pride of ownership and heritage (if they turn you on) go for a 993. Or even something older as they turned the character (and the running costs) up even higher
I went with my heart and bought a Lotus Carlton instead of a new Mondeo ST24. I endured a world of pain running that sh1t box, but I suppose that is where passion for cars gets you - in the bank manager's office begging for an overdraft extension and in the spare room after the missus gets fed up with your autolunacy.
As a sensible, low running cost car, a new 350Z would spank a 10 year old 993. For charisma, pride of ownership and heritage (if they turn you on) go for a 993. Or even something older as they turned the character (and the running costs) up even higher
CVP no offense meant mate, but more or less as Dom says head or heart. if you WANT a 993 then you would understand my response. Sometimes it makes sense to go with what your heart says otherwise we would all be running round in 5 year old diesel vectras.
The 350z is a fine car (door handles apart) but I would not drive one around instead of a 993 if you paid me £10k for doing so over the next year..An example of heart/head
The 350z is a fine car (door handles apart) but I would not drive one around instead of a 993 if you paid me £10k for doing so over the next year..An example of heart/head
domster said:
A new 350Z would be the decison of the head, the 993 the decision of the heart. I think this is what Paul was getting at, ie it depends on the kind of person you are.
Ah, apologies. Sometimes the written word doesn't quite come across as clear as speach would have done. Apologies if that was the sentiment that was intended.
Overall I'm naturally optimistic
, so heart is ahead of head at the moment. Anyway I think this one has run its course. Thanks to those who gave me some ideas of things to watch for and possible sources of good 993s.
Chris
>> Edited by CVP on Tuesday 9th March 13:18
It must seem that there is a lot of Elise upgraders looking at Porsche's. I am of the same ilk. Thinking of a Boxster S but have always thought the 993 is the best looking 911 of all time. It seems that is the direction that my wallet maybe taking me. As CVP stated the insurance is only about 100GBP more than the Elise.
But what are the typical yearly servicing costs etc. Is it better to go for the varioram?
Also I work a lot in Europe so the LHD isn't a problem, would it be better to purchase abroad and bring it over here or buy one from blighty...
My friend has a 1983 911 and the sound of that is just fantastic, my Elise keeps up to him until about 70mph then he's gone. I do catch him up at the petrol station though.....
But what are the typical yearly servicing costs etc. Is it better to go for the varioram?
Also I work a lot in Europe so the LHD isn't a problem, would it be better to purchase abroad and bring it over here or buy one from blighty...
My friend has a 1983 911 and the sound of that is just fantastic, my Elise keeps up to him until about 70mph then he's gone. I do catch him up at the petrol station though.....
nobbles said:
It must seem that there is a lot of Elise upgraders looking at Porsche's. I am of the same ilk. Thinking of a Boxster S but have always thought the 993 is the best looking 911 of all time. It seems that is the direction that my wallet maybe taking me. As CVP stated the insurance is only about 100GBP more than the Elise.
But what are the typical yearly servicing costs etc. Is it better to go for the varioram?
Also I work a lot in Europe so the LHD isn't a problem, would it be better to purchase abroad and bring it over here or buy one from blighty...
My friend has a 1983 911 and the sound of that is just fantastic, my Elise keeps up to him until about 70mph then he's gone. I do catch him up at the petrol station though.....
Quick points of infinite domsterdom (so take with a pinch of salt and season to taste):
- The standard 993 will appear boring after an Elise. The fabled 964RS is recommended instead.
- Typical yearly servicing and maintenance costs on a typical 911 will be about 1000-2000 a year; it may not seem it but 12 months is a long time if you drive a car hard. If 100 quid a month will cripple you excluding insurance and petrol, get a Caterham or Elise. The 993 is OK to run tho', just don't expect it to run itself for free.
- Varioram cars are slightly more powerful and have flatter torque curve. Some prefer the non-varioram as they seem to be more rev hungry. Chipping the normal 993 engine gets 285bhp so it's not a deal breaker.
- Get as late a 993 as you can; they did improve it throughout its life. Pre 1995 ones can suffer from wiring loom fires etc.
- Have a look at www.mobile.de for German prices. I'd allow 1-2k for importing one. They will be cheaper but you don't know the history often and it;s a long way to go back and complain. With LHD prices being so reasonable ( www.rsjsportscars.co.uk as a guide) buying a LHD one that someone has already imported, and getting some comeback, can be worth it. My gut instinct is LHD yes, personal import no.
- A 993 or 964 shape 911 will be vastly superior to your mate's 1983 car and should sound just as good if not better, although you will need a sports exhaust on the 993 as they are quite quiet as standard (if that is your bag).
HTH
Dom
My 993 C4 service last year was the big 48K miler, and in addition to that, replacing all the transmission oil (including front diff) and the brake fluid. I can't remember exactly what it cost, but IIRC it was around £600-700 at local specialists Northway. Generally, servicing would be somewhat less than this (unless you go to an OPC of course), but with 11 litres of quality oil a time, it's never going to be cheap. I also bought a pair of rear tyres (265/35 ZR 18) and they are about £200 each for a decent brand. That's the total maintenance expenditure so far in 19 months, although I only do about 5K a year. Fuel wise I get an average of 22mpg.
I'm getting excited now although now confused as you set out looking for a 993 within budget, that stretches as you find better looking ones for just slightly more and it steamrolls until you you come across this Ferrari for only 40k
www.911virgin.com/f456.htm
Oh dear, maybe I have to buy with my head as my heart doesn't have 40k, the house may have to go....
www.911virgin.com/f456.htm
Oh dear, maybe I have to buy with my head as my heart doesn't have 40k, the house may have to go....
domster said:
- Typical yearly servicing and maintenance costs on a typical 911 will be about 1000-2000 a year; it may not seem it but 12 months is a long time if you drive a car hard. If 100 quid a month will cripple you excluding insurance and petrol, get a Caterham or Elise. The 993 is OK to run tho', just don't expect it to run itself for free.
- Get as late a 993 as you can; they did improve it throughout its life. Pre 1995 ones can suffer from wiring loom fires etc.
Dom
Hmmm - £2k running costs a year certainly wasn't my experience of running a '94 C2 for a few years - although agreed if something big goes wrong or you get a dud car you can easily expect that sort of cost, or even more. If I take out the costs of the bits I wanted to do to the car myself as upgrades (suspension, HID headlight upgrade, carbon / steel bits inside etc), then the yearly routine costs were pretty cheap!
Also the wiring loom affects cars after '95 as well - cars up to '97 have reported problems on Rennlist.
If you drill the airbox lid, or feel flush enough to stretch to the Porsche Motorsound airbox (exactly the same thing as you drilling your own), then the sound on the standard C2 is transformed, even with stock exhausts - the growl above 3k rpm sends a tingle down your spine!
Eric
domster said:
I said 1-2k.
If you can run a 94 911 for less than a grand a year inc tyres, oil, servicing and some wear and tear I'll eat the next badger I run over
Less than 1k with petrol and other bits in? Yeah, you're probably right, you can safely keep the BBQ packed away then.....
Wasn't adding fuel costs in with my calculation - that would significantly increase my previous calculation!
I've had my 993 for over 3 yrs now, best thing I've ever done! There aren't that many cars you can buy with your heart and use it as everyday car. Servicing is not that expensive if you use specialists, but if anything goes wrong it can be big bucks. Also it eats tyres esp rear. It depends on how much and how hard you use it, but I guess 2K a yr would probably be ok if you don't include insurance. Do take it to at least one track day though, its addictive!
There are many other faster or better handling cars for less money, but they're not 911 with air-cooled flat-6!
There are many other faster or better handling cars for less money, but they're not 911 with air-cooled flat-6!
ek993 said:
I said 1-2k.
If you can run a 94 911 for less than a grand a year inc tyres, oil, servicing and some wear and tear I'll eat the next badger I run over
Less than 1k with petrol and other bits in? Yeah, you're probably right, you can safely keep the BBQ packed away then.....
Wasn't adding fuel costs in with my calculation - that would significantly increase my previous calculation!
Nah, I said exc fuel and insurance. I still don't reckon I need the badger sauce. Cars are never as cheap to run in practice as they are in theory. You may find an expense like a starter motor, brake discs or battery, will tip it over the £1k mark, even if tyres and servicing are a hundred quid or two under. I'd never budget less than 2k a year running a high performance car. If you get less than that you are doing well - and so are the badgers
I do 20k miles a year in my 993 C4, over the last 3 years running cost (OPC servicing) has averaged just over 3k/yr excluding fuel, excluding warranty, excluding insurance. I do a few trackdays which takes a toll in tyres, discs and pads, all included in that 3k (costs of the trackdays themselves not included). With insurance, warranty, and tankers-full of overtaxed fuel included it comes to about 8k/yr. I'd tell you what I've spent on various mods as well but the total is too shocking to admit to in public
A 993 is not budget motoring, but I can honestly say there is still nothing even vaguely sensible available that I'd rather have.
A 993 is not budget motoring, but I can honestly say there is still nothing even vaguely sensible available that I'd rather have.
I'm also contemplating a 993C2 or C2S/C4S, looking around the 30-33k mark. What year was varioram standard and how do I verify? Looking online it seems to be 95 onwards, but not sure.
Also, drove a friends newish 996 C4S with the switchable sports exhaust which just sounds fantastic and is quiet when needed. Got me thinking about an early 996 now
Anyone like to compare? Obviously watercooled, larger etc, but never yet driven a 993. Only think I didn't like was the long throw (for me), gear change.
Is it possible to get the sports exhaust retrofitted to an early 996?
Is there a switchable option for the 993? Damm it, that engine note's got me obsessed!
Cheers, Al.
Also, drove a friends newish 996 C4S with the switchable sports exhaust which just sounds fantastic and is quiet when needed. Got me thinking about an early 996 now
Anyone like to compare? Obviously watercooled, larger etc, but never yet driven a 993. Only think I didn't like was the long throw (for me), gear change.
Is it possible to get the sports exhaust retrofitted to an early 996?
Is there a switchable option for the 993? Damm it, that engine note's got me obsessed!
Cheers, Al.
clubsport said:
varioram from sept '95...when you have the engine lid open look on top of the engine diredtly and it says "varioram"...this gives it away
Actually that's not strictly true. I know a lot do have the Varioram script, but equally a lot don't. For example mine was built in late '96 and it does not have the script.
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