what is this heel-toe stuff?
Discussion
These Threads can be tedious, and some people can take them a little personally, I agree. But often some very useful information can some out of them that may actually help prevent a reader from having accident someday or helping him enjoy the performance of his car just that little bit more.
I drive purely on feel, most racing drivers do. But we need to translate what the car is doing to our race engineers so that we can go even quicker. So we need to understand the physics as well. Alesi knows why he is quick in the wet and he is quicker still because he has communicated this to his engineers.
I wish somebody would have given me this kind of information when I started racing. It is invaluable to the serious driver the same may not be said of a 20 post thread on wheel nut polishing.
Yep.. live and let live
Steve R
I drive purely on feel, most racing drivers do. But we need to translate what the car is doing to our race engineers so that we can go even quicker. So we need to understand the physics as well. Alesi knows why he is quick in the wet and he is quicker still because he has communicated this to his engineers.
I wish somebody would have given me this kind of information when I started racing. It is invaluable to the serious driver the same may not be said of a 20 post thread on wheel nut polishing.
Yep.. live and let live
Steve R
steve rance said:
These Threads can be tedious, and some people can take them a little personally, I agree. But often some very useful information can some out of them that may actually help prevent a reader from having accident someday or helping him enjoy the performance of his car just that little bit more.
That's why this thread is still up.
steve rance said:
often some very useful information can some out of them that may actually help prevent a reader from having accident someday or helping him enjoy the performance of his car just that little bit more.
Couldn't agree more. I'm looking forward to perfecting H&T next year on the track. Especially into Les Combes(?) at Spa!
>> Edited by roygarth on Saturday 17th December 10:19
Sorry to resurect this old thread, but for those who dont do or get H&T, I found a vid of Jap test driver in prototype S2000 at the 'ring who is rather skilled in the H&T dept, darn quick lap on a public day too! shame however about the so cheezy it needs cranbury sauce yank voiceover tho.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-76623254048
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-76623254048
I did notice this on p1:
"all have sequential boxes anyway, so it's becoming less and less important. "
A sequential box operates internally pretty much like an H pattern (as has probably already been covered, ive still got 13 pages to read!).
Heel n Toeing is as usefull in a sequential box as a non sequential box. Lots of people think that all sequential boxes use an ignition cutoff that allows flat footed upshifts and an autoblipper on downshifts, but those are electrical systems that arent fitted to the gearbox, they are part of the engine management system. A standard sequential box requires lifts on upshifts and blips on downshifts too.
The bigger question should be - Should i use a clutch? The answer to which is - in a road car with a synchrod box, yes, but in a car with a dog box, no need
pez
"all have sequential boxes anyway, so it's becoming less and less important. "
A sequential box operates internally pretty much like an H pattern (as has probably already been covered, ive still got 13 pages to read!).
Heel n Toeing is as usefull in a sequential box as a non sequential box. Lots of people think that all sequential boxes use an ignition cutoff that allows flat footed upshifts and an autoblipper on downshifts, but those are electrical systems that arent fitted to the gearbox, they are part of the engine management system. A standard sequential box requires lifts on upshifts and blips on downshifts too.
The bigger question should be - Should i use a clutch? The answer to which is - in a road car with a synchrod box, yes, but in a car with a dog box, no need
pez
I did notice this on p1:
"If someone is serious about getting up the ladder in racing then it's handy to have, but then most of the cars they would be driving (GT's, F3, F3000, etc) all have sequential boxes anyway, so it's becoming less and less important."
A sequential box operates internally pretty much like an H pattern (as has probably already been covered, ive still got 13 pages to read!).
Heel n Toeing is as usefull in a sequential box as a non sequential box. Lots of people think that all sequential boxes use an ignition cutoff that allows flat footed upshifts and an autoblipper on downshifts, but those are electrical systems that arent fitted to the gearbox, they are part of the engine management system. A standard sequential box requires lifts on upshifts and blips on downshifts too.
The bigger question should be - Should i use a clutch? The answer to which is - in a road car with a synchrod box, yes, but in a car with a dog box, no need
pez
"If someone is serious about getting up the ladder in racing then it's handy to have, but then most of the cars they would be driving (GT's, F3, F3000, etc) all have sequential boxes anyway, so it's becoming less and less important."
A sequential box operates internally pretty much like an H pattern (as has probably already been covered, ive still got 13 pages to read!).
Heel n Toeing is as usefull in a sequential box as a non sequential box. Lots of people think that all sequential boxes use an ignition cutoff that allows flat footed upshifts and an autoblipper on downshifts, but those are electrical systems that arent fitted to the gearbox, they are part of the engine management system. A standard sequential box requires lifts on upshifts and blips on downshifts too.
The bigger question should be - Should i use a clutch? The answer to which is - in a road car with a synchrod box, yes, but in a car with a dog box, no need
pez
At the risk of being 'flamed' off this thread (which has taken ages to plough through - but nonetheless interesting in its details for that), may I ask whether any of this applies to a tiptronic system? Obviously, it's not a racing system, but it does allow for LFB whilst having the right foot free to concentrate on the throttle control and the steering wheel buttons to control the gear selection. I find that the system is pretty good at matching engine revs to the selected gear, but I can also match revs - sometimes even quicker than the tiptronic system, despite my slow reflexes (old age!).
Has anyone any good experience of tiptronics on a trackday to throw into this discussion?
BTW, I used to have to double-declutch when driving a Centurion tank, as well as a variety of older Army trucks - but heel & toeing was out of the question! However, I did learn to h&t on a nippy Borgward Isabella - happy days of my youth! It has all been downhill and automatics since then!
>> Edited by kent993 on Monday 30th January 17:17
Has anyone any good experience of tiptronics on a trackday to throw into this discussion?
BTW, I used to have to double-declutch when driving a Centurion tank, as well as a variety of older Army trucks - but heel & toeing was out of the question! However, I did learn to h&t on a nippy Borgward Isabella - happy days of my youth! It has all been downhill and automatics since then!
>> Edited by kent993 on Monday 30th January 17:17
Tell you what happens if you do it by mistake as you approach traffic lights...
car brakes to a walking pace...brake pedal picks up throttle during travel..
Thick boots....thick head thinks...strange within a cars length and the car in front is continuing to close... yet i know i'm braking...Shi&..
Toal the N/S ....
Order a 2cv...to match my response capability...
say no more!
car brakes to a walking pace...brake pedal picks up throttle during travel..
Thick boots....thick head thinks...strange within a cars length and the car in front is continuing to close... yet i know i'm braking...Shi&..
Toal the N/S ....
Order a 2cv...to match my response capability...
say no more!
clearly I ma going for "longest thread of 2006" as well as "longest thread of 2005".
having seen that excellent japanese chap doing his HT thang I have actually given it a few goes on quiet roads, without dying, which is an unexpected bonus. I have learned that its not a good idea to try in walking boots though. Oh and it seems to help to sit sidesaddle in the seat (unless one is congenitally club-footed) which is sorta weird, me being a boy and all, but not necessarily unpleasant
having seen that excellent japanese chap doing his HT thang I have actually given it a few goes on quiet roads, without dying, which is an unexpected bonus. I have learned that its not a good idea to try in walking boots though. Oh and it seems to help to sit sidesaddle in the seat (unless one is congenitally club-footed) which is sorta weird, me being a boy and all, but not necessarily unpleasant
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