Testdrove the 997, but I'll go for a 996 instead

[simonharrod911]

dazren said:

simonharrod911 said: The 996 will be the next 928. I do hope so. It'll make adding a GT3 and a C4S cab to the stable so much cheaper. DAZ

Cheaper TO BUY. Not to own. GT3 is different kettle of fish because the engine is older technology which is easier to fix.

I'm a non-exec director at a well known Porsche specialist and the bills we're giving people more and more when the 996 engine gives up are not funny. At the moment Porsche are subsidising the units, but when they stop you'll need 20K to fix a blown engine.

Modern Porsche ownership is about staying in manufacturers warranty, just like lumpy beemers and mercs. Outside of that relative safety zone is a nervous place to be. Like having a 928 with a shagged ECU. Write the car off.

[dazren]

simonharrod911 said:

I'm a non-exec director at a well known Porsche specialist and the bills we're giving people more and more when the 996 engine gives up are not funny. At the moment Porsche are subsidising the units, but when they stop you'll need 20K to fix a blown engine.

What's to say future 997 owners won't experience similar bills further down the road?

DAZ

>> Edited by dazren on Thursday 16th December 16:44

[simonharrod911]

dazren said:

simonharrod911 said: I'm a non-exec director at a well known Porsche specialist and the bills we're giving people more and more when the 996 engine gives up are not funny. At the moment Porsche are subsidising the units, but when they stop you'll need 20K to fix a blown engine. What's to say future 997 owners won't experience similar bills further down the road? DAZ

I think they might well Daz, hence my comment about modern Porsche ownership. One hope is that the 996 engine was completely new and they've had six years experience with it prior to the 997 release.

There's a great article about the problem in last month's 911 & Porsche World.

[dazren]

simonharrod911 said:

There's a great article about the problem in last month's 911 & Porsche World.

I'll dig it out.

cheers

DAZ

[simonharrod911]

dazren said:

simonharrod911 said: There's a great article about the problem in last month's 911 & Porsche World. I'll dig it out. cheers DAZ

Although your car (I'm new here, but think you have a 996TT) won't suffer from the same problems, as it's based on the same engine as my turbo II 3.6 and is hard as nails.

[dazren]

I've read of the Turbo/GT3/2 engine block having a 964 parts number (thanks melv) and being derived from the GT1 race car. However a few early 996tt had a porous block issue, so even they aren't infallable.

DAZ

[johnny senna]

simonharrod911 said:

dazren said: simonharrod911 said: I'm a non-exec director at a well known Porsche specialist and the bills we're giving people more and more when the 996 engine gives up are not funny. At the moment Porsche are subsidising the units, but when they stop you'll need 20K to fix a blown engine. What's to say future 997 owners won't experience similar bills further down the road? DAZ I think they might well Daz, hence my comment about modern Porsche ownership. One hope is that the 996 engine was completely new and they've had six years experience with it prior to the 997 release. There's a great article about the problem in last month's 911 & Porsche World.

I read that article. Very very interesting indeed. I must say that now I wouldn't rush out and buy a 996 (except for the Turbo and GT3/2).

[DanH]

Its not a new thing for high performance cars with expensive lumps to be near write off after a few years if something major lets go. I'm guessing you have to be pretty unlucky to need a complete new block, or is there something fundamentally dodgey about the design? (I do remember reading about some boxster problem that the 996 exhibited too which was a design fault).

[James s]

I have followed the 996 engine story for some time, and had kind of taken the view it was probably a real issue, but like most of these things limited to a small number of cases.

However I was at a very well known independent, NW or London yesterday, as the annual service had come round, and asked the guy what he sold go for with 27-30k to play with. With absolutely no doubt he convinced me to avoid early 996. I think we all know the 933's are better put together, but the problems he described were big engine component failures - of various kinds and with alarming frequency.

I was half convinced by an early 996 but have definitely seen sense and will be back with the air cooled brigade when I tire of my 968 CS.

I really was taken aback by the level of concern shown about the 996 engine
james

[robbo66]

I had a 996 TT for a year from new and sold it for a 360 last Feb. Now out of that aswell. I have an April delivery 997S on order, but having driven it was totally under-whelmed. I also think that depreciation will be an issue here. Friends in the states are already being offered discounts on both versions of the 997, approx $5-6000. Hence I'll be cancelling the order.

IMO now is not the time to be getting into this type of car, regardless of the mark. It's a perfect time to sit and wait 6-9 months over the winter period. The 996TT, offering superb value IMO against every marque, will drop further as will the GT3 & GT2. Dealers have stated off the record that the GT3 is sticking and don't want to touch Turbo's at the moment. Look at the 360 market, nightmare. Too many about, 430 looming. 575m's at 50% depreciation in 12 months !!
It's the first time I've been out of this type of car for 13 years, but looking at the state of the market, and what's now on offer, a little patience will offer serious financial savings on all marques.

[Joe911]

So what are the differences between the normal versions of the 993/996/997 and the equivalent S versions?

I understood, perhaps incorrectly, that up to and including the 996 - the S versions were "turbo bodied" (i.e. wide arse) and no extra power, therefore more weight, worse handling (even more understeer), etc. (i.e. everything I wouldn't want) - BUT the 997 S was in fact more power, improved suspension, no wide arse, better brakes (ceramic composite), etc. (i.e. a bunch of stuff I would want).

Can anyone clarify?

[AC79xxx]

IIRC 997 versions follow the Boxter and KN priciples of nomenclature i.e. S refers to increase in BHP, revised suspension mods and better spec but bodywork is largely the same if not the same.

Pre 997 the S refers to turbo bodies with NA engines.

[Thom]

simonharrod911 said:

Modern Porsche ownership is about staying in manufacturers warranty, just like lumpy beemers and mercs. Outside of that relative safety zone is a nervous place to be. Like having a 928 with a shagged ECU. Write the car off.

Although new 928 ECU are no more available at Porsche, shagged ones can be repaired by various specialists for less than £500.
One can only hope for 996 owners and the future of 996 values that a sphere of serious 996 specialists will develop and come with genuine engineering solutions and offer the potential customer a viable alternative to buying a car with the fear of the engine going pop, even if a warranty is included in the deal.
How about Porsche being managed by engineers back again and reintroduce the gone quality of the older cars instead of leaving bean counters steer the ship ?

[simonharrod911]

Thom said:

simonharrod911 said: Modern Porsche ownership is about staying in manufacturers warranty, just like lumpy beemers and mercs. Outside of that relative safety zone is a nervous place to be. Like having a 928 with a shagged ECU. Write the car off. Although new 928 ECU are no more available at Porsche, shagged ones can be repaired by various specialists for less than £500. One can only hope for 996 owners and the future of 996 values that a sphere of serious 996 specialists will develop and come with genuine engineering solutions and offer the potential customer a viable alternative to buying a car with the fear of the engine going pop, even if a warranty is included in the deal. How about Porsche being managed by engineers back again and reintroduce the gone quality of the older cars instead of leaving bean counters steer the ship ?

It would be a dream come true, however I feel that the billion euro profits will be an addiction too hard to resist.

[Harris_I]

Joe911 said:

So what are the differences between the normal versions of the 993/996/997 and the equivalent S versions? I understood, perhaps incorrectly, that up to and including the 996 - the S versions were "turbo bodied" (i.e. wide arse) and no extra power, therefore more weight, worse handling (even more understeer), etc. (i.e. everything I wouldn't want) - BUT the 997 S was in fact more power, improved suspension, no wide arse, better brakes (ceramic composite), etc. (i.e. a bunch of stuff I would want). Can anyone clarify?

Also, in addition to AC's comment, I would add that the motoring hacks reckoned the 996 4S was actually a better drive than the standard 996, whereas I remember the 993 S version being slated as one of the only truly duff Porsches (handling wise).

Sorry if that offends anyone, and besides I think most motoring hacks just make it up anyway.

[simonharrod911]

Harris_I said:

Joe911 said: So what are the differences between the normal versions of the 993/996/997 and the equivalent S versions? I understood, perhaps incorrectly, that up to and including the 996 - the S versions were "turbo bodied" (i.e. wide arse) and no extra power, therefore more weight, worse handling (even more understeer), etc. (i.e. everything I wouldn't want) - BUT the 997 S was in fact more power, improved suspension, no wide arse, better brakes (ceramic composite), etc. (i.e. a bunch of stuff I would want). Can anyone clarify? Also, in addition to AC's comment, I would add that the motoring hacks reckoned the 996 4S was actually a better drive than the standard 996, whereas I remember the 993 S version being slated as one of the only truly duff Porsches (handling wise). Sorry if that offends anyone, and besides I think most motoring hacks just make it up anyway.

I would agree with the 993 S slur. Either that, or I can't drive. I had one for a month before rolling it.

You realise just how well the cars are built after a big off. It was a total loss, I just climbed out unharmed.

[Harris_I]

Yup, a friend destroyed his 993 right in front of me at the Dubai Autodrome yesterday.

Looks like a write-off - the front is crumpled like paper, but he walked away with just a slight limp (had his foot full on the brake at the point of impact, so that is understandable). Those Germans know a thing or two about safety.

Re the 993 S, I remember an article in Top Gear many years ago (yes, I know, it's a hopeless mag). They tested a variety of exotica at the Nurburgring using the services of a couple of pros (Dirk Schoysmann sp? was one of them - this is the guy who helped develop the Skyline and broke the 8 minute barrier in one).

Against the 355, Skyline, Corvette, M3 Schnitzer and 993 S, I remember the S was roundly criticised for being a nightmare on the limit. It also didn't get a lap time worthy of respect.