Mission E

[nickpan]

As an EV driver, Tesla’s “figures” are irrelevant to me if they can’t be supported by a well built and robust vehicle.

I’ll be purchasing a Mission E because it has been designed and built by Porsche - a company that has been successfully building cars for many many more years than Tesla.

When I set out to buy my current EV, I looked at used Tesla’s as a means of assessing their build quality.

I bought a BMW i3 and have never once looked back.

[TDT]

So now we know what it is......



Quite a departure from the concept design and really more like the late jacked up Panamera mules we saw running around. Personally a bit disappointed with the design.... some major elements lost but guess that was always going to be the case.

Porsche seemed to want to talk about this more than the GT3 RS.... I suppose because regular joes will actually be able to buy one, so they will sell loads of them!!.

[Davidkn]

TDT said:

So now we know what it is......



Quite a departure from the concept design and really more like the late jacked up Panamera mules we saw running around. Personally a bit disappointed with the design.... some major elements lost but guess that was always going to be the case.

Porsche seemed to want to talk about this more than the GT3 RS.... I suppose because regular joes will actually be able to buy one, so they will sell loads of them!!.

That’s the cross tourismo, an suv concept, not the normal mission e.

[TDT]

I think they are transitioning away from that original saloon concept, unless you heard them talk about the saloon car again?... everyone wants suv/cuvs - that’s what all the big brands are doing.

[WG]

I disagree I think it looks very appealing but I bought a 718 so I know nothing !!

[Geneve]

I saw the Mission E GT at Geneva yesterday. Not a great looker IMO, and far too big.

Actually preferred the Jaguar iPace, but again, also a 'big' car. I'm surprised that with all the emphasis on the environment, cars can't be more space efficient, but every new model seems to be expanding.

Star of the Show for me was the Lagonda all electric 'concept' (although Andy Palmer said it was much more than a concept). Aston Martin also had the best stand, and oozing with A-list celebs - I counted Adrian Newey, Christian Horner, David Coulthard, Lord March, Jackie Stewart, Jean Todt, Bernie Ecclestone.....

[smudger911]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Certainly some big numbers being invested:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/porsche-7-billion-do...

"Mission E prices comparable to the Tesla S", can't see that myself but whiling to be proved wrong!

[smudger911]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Well described imo. Likely another reason why Porsche are part of the Ionity group to open rapid charging stations with other members of the group - those being Audi, BMW, Daimler & Ford to (help) supplement any range issues.
Battery tech is moving forward quickly with more power & range, but generally speaking Tesla have set a benchmark whether that be Musk spin or real world people partly believe the hype.
I wonder if Porsche have any battery upgrade plans for Mission E - solving that part of the puzzle would certainly help retain loyalty and future proof Mission E.

[DMC2]

And still it only has 4 seats which makes it pointless for me when it is that big.

[burman]

Some really good comments on this thread , only problem Ive got with all EVs I just don't want one, and as for autonomous stuff!!
What about depreciation on EVs at the moment batteries are never worth anything second hand BMW I8s are cheap.

[FocusRS3]

burman said:

Some really good comments on this thread , only problem Ive got with all EVs I just don't want one, and as for autonomous stuff!!
What about depreciation on EVs at the moment batteries are never worth anything second hand BMW I8s are cheap.

The mission E in fairness is a stunning looking machine .
Maybe a better buy now than a fully autonomous vehicle after the Arizona crash

[PhantomPH]

FocusRS3 said:

burman said:

Some really good comments on this thread , only problem Ive got with all EVs I just don't want one, and as for autonomous stuff!!
What about depreciation on EVs at the moment batteries are never worth anything second hand BMW I8s are cheap.

The mission E in fairness is a stunning looking machine .
Maybe a better buy now than a fully autonomous vehicle after the Arizona crash

Never gonna look like the car you’ve seen as a concept. So I don’t think ‘stunning’ will cover it when it’s launched. That ‘usp’ will be gone.

[BubblesNW]

I had a really interesting conversation with someone very influential in automotive development across many oems. Battery tech is miles away from effective and efficient mass market commercialisation. Batteries need to improve by a factor of 20 to be where they need to be. Autonomous vehicles on the other hand are much closer than we realise. The next step will be cars which won’t let you do something stupid - pulling out in front of another car etc. Fully autonomous zones are a possibility, the issue of human controlled mixing with fully autonomous is a problem due to human unpredictability. Interesting times...

[Cheib]

I honestly can’t see how autonomous cars can mix easily in traffic with normal cars...for a start you would be able driving a normal car to carve up an autonomous car knowing it will automatically take evasive action. You could certainly see cars forming a “train” on a busy motorway though.

[BubblesNW]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

To go 300 miles a pure electric car needs a battery pack which weighs 400+ kgs. A diesel or petrol car needs 40kgs of fuel. Batteries need to be much better and there is no sign of the quantum leap needed in the next 10 years according to current research and patents. Recharging is an issue as is where the fuel for electric cars comes from. In the U.K. it is fossil fuel, nuclear and renewables, we don’t have the capacity to replace the energy provided by fuel stations at the moment with electricity from our national grid. And let’s not even get into the debate about energy security with the Russians, Algerians and Quataris providing the majority of our gas supplies.

[Taffy66]

With regards to whether or not autonomous cars will benefit road safety,and reduce accidents depends on the standard of human driving..IMV approximately 50% of UK drivers would be better off being driven by a computer as for various reasons they lack the requisite skills or reactions to avoid accidents..This sector compromises many under 24's (boy/girl racers) ,75+'s with slower reactions and half of the drivers inbetween who are basically crp drivers.
I have a LOI with my OPC for a Mission E and based on the way the new Cayenne looks is probably going to be my next family Porsche upgrade..It suits be better than most as i have a large renewable energy so fuel is basically zero cost .

[PhantomPH]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

You could argue that a fully autonomous car is already on sale (Tesla S) it's just not allowed to be fully autonomous yet. Unless of course you mean something a little more sci-fi as in a kind of box on wheels with no potential for human input at all?

For me, the reason you won't see fully autonomous for a long time yet (you are probably right with 10yrs+) is to do with the 'comfort' of the various authorities when it comes to signing off the legislation they will feel needs to be in place in order to allow fully auto vehicles to co-exist on the roads with regular vehicles.

[5to1]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I don't believe it's that straight forward.. Current charging infrastructure is heavily restricted by limitations of battery technology, particularly time required to charge.

As it takes several hours to charge an EV, charge points need to be where peoples journeys end/start and each point can only service a couple of vehicles a day. If conventional cars took hours to fill the same issues would present. "When" battery tech improves to the point where it can be charged within minutes, the planning of charging infrastructure will be liberated. You can follow the current petrol station model and its far far easier to have 10 high power pumps that can service thousands of cars over the day, plus can be located in a more convenient location for routing of supply.

[Cheib]

BubblesNW said:

To go 300 miles a pure electric car needs a battery pack which weighs 400+ kgs. A diesel or petrol car needs 40kgs of fuel. Batteries need to be much better and there is no sign of the quantum leap needed in the next 10 years according to current research and patents. Recharging is an issue as is where the fuel for electric cars comes from. In the U.K. it is fossil fuel, nuclear and renewables, we don’t have the capacity to replace the energy provided by fuel stations at the moment with electricity from our national grid.

This is very,very true. The National Grid's ability to supply base load generation is under massive pressure....a lot of the UK's Nuclear and Coal Power Stations are very close to the end of their useful lives/being shut down by regulation vis a vis emissions.

Wew're (hopefully) building a new house next year....going to be looking very closely at renewable energy and things like Tesla's Power Wall. I suspect the tech is not quite there yet but will be speccing the house so that when battery tech is there we can install easily.

Back on the subject of the Mission E...I think it looks great and the latest "spy photos" look pretty good to me. Tesla's Model S outsold the Merc S Class in Europe last year which is pretty impressive (surprised me but then they are absolutely everywhere in London), I think the Mission E will be a huge success if it's anything close to what Porsche has promised and I think will be free motoring for a couple of years in terms of depreciation. I've got my name down for one.

The big issue is range and charging....I know in Europe a lot of the manufacturers are JV'ing on a network of fast charging stations but I think it'll be years before there's a network capable of replicating what we're used to. i.e. You can drive up to a charging station with reasonable certainty that there will be a charging point free and get a decent charge in 20 mins. Porsche claims to have the latter sorted but only with chargers at OPC's. My OPC was due to have extended their premises by now but it's been delayed because they are having to redesign it so that it can cope with the demands of electric cars.

[hunter 66]

Having owned a Tesla X for a year now , I do not see any of these issues and have only had "range anxiety" once due to closure of a supercharging station ( I did not check ) .... it is amazing thing to drive and live with ......
Just before anyone thinks I am a liberal eco friend , I also race Porsches around to world and have a new RS coming ...
Just EV do make sense and are the future , Tesla is a complete viability NOW ....