My lovely 911 stolen last night

[belfry]

Thanks Bert

I have a market value policy. I take that to mean that the insurers will pay the market value of the car (what it would take to replace the car).

I am looking at comparable cars for sale, in order to find the "market" price of my car. I am working on the assumption that the market price is the price at which I can buy a comparable car, not some discount to the price that it would cost me to replace.

So far it looks like it will cost nearer £45-50,000 to find a classic 911 in similar condition ie with a recent bare metal respray, suspension refresh and a rebuilt engine. Can anyone show me some cars that have this spec anre are significantly cheaper (and available to buy now)? I am using Pistonheads, Autotrader, ebay and some independent P. specialists like Portiacraft.

[The Selfish Gene]

that car definitely can't be replaced for 31k - I've been looking - i'd say 50+ definitely

[BertBert]

This might be helpful...
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications...

[housen]

belfry said:

I am hoping that the recent engine rebuild and SS exhaust system will have done something to help me to prove that the market value of this car has risen since my last renewal in Feb '17 where the 'estimated value' was £31,000.

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

exactly

in my insurance it said replace or re pay

i bought the car at a good price before i wrote it off...i was scared about the payout so i even told them what i paid for it 70k

i guess they went by the book and looked at it and said that car couldn't be replaced for 70k if i wanted it to be....so they gave me 80k

maybe i was lucky

[smudger911]

belfry said:

Thanks Bert

I have a market value policy. I take that to mean that the insurers will pay the market value of the car (what it would take to replace the car).

I am looking at comparable cars for sale, in order to find the "market" price of my car. I am working on the assumption that the market price is the price at which I can buy a comparable car, not some discount to the price that it would cost me to replace.

So far it looks like it will cost nearer £45-50,000 to find a classic 911 in similar condition ie with a recent bare metal respray, suspension refresh and a rebuilt engine. Can anyone show me some cars that have this spec anre are significantly cheaper (and available to buy now)? I am using Pistonheads, Autotrader, ebay and some independent P. specialists like Portiacraft.

On that note, John Glynn (Porsche Valuations) https://www.porschevaluations.com/ maybe a useful contact. He is well known in surance circles. I have used him and his services over the last few years for an agreed value policy on an older 911 I have. Just saying a valued and recognized 3rd party may help you fight your corner. Good luck and best wishes.

[citychap26]

Wozy68 said:

Forgive me for this, and I really do hope you get a pay out on losing your 911.

But are you saying the insurance company was told it was garaged ad it wasn't and secondly you hadnt' paid (classicline for example charge £20 for a valuation), or at least updated with them the true value of your car but you have in the past? If so, can I ask when was the last valuation.

Only asking as my car stays in one of two places, one garaged and one not, though I have told them this, all of a sudden it might be worth checking they have actually written down all the facts. Also my last valuation was two to three years ago... so this may need updating also.

Sorry for delay in answering!

I was not aware that my LHD 964 was worth in the region of 45-70k! I had asked that it's agreed value be moved up to 20k a couple of years ago as it was only insured for 10k. The insurance company in question is one I have been with for 10 years or more.

Now post my car being stolen I found that their website has a valuation tool which values my car at 45k!

So in my opinion they know what the true value of the car is. Neither the broker or the underlying insurance company alerted me that I was under insured.

The annoying thing is that one does not think about these things, in this day and age, It's just too simple to auto renew.

So ladies and gents, make sure that your car is insured for it true value. Thus far the only winner here is the c*nt criminal(s) who have nicked my lovely car. The police couldn't give a f*** and the insurance company are ducking and diving.

Sorry for rant, however this has been going on for 6 months, @OP I hope you have more luck.

[belfry]

citychap26 said:

Sorry for delay in answering!

I was not aware that my LHD 964 was worth in the region of 45-70k! I had asked that it's agreed value be moved up to 20k a couple of years ago as it was only insured for 10k. The insurance company in question is one I have been with for 10 years or more.

Now post my car being stolen I found that their website has a valuation tool which values my car at 45k!

So in my opinion they know what the true value of the car is. Neither the broker or the underlying insurance company alerted me that I was under insured.

The annoying thing is that one does not think about these things, in this day and age, It's just too simple to auto renew.

So ladies and gents, make sure that your car is insured for it true value. Thus far the only winner here is the c*nt criminal(s) who have nicked my lovely car. The police couldn't give a f*** and the insurance company are ducking and diving.

Sorry for rant, however this has been going on for 6 months, @OP I hope you have more luck.

Are you able to direct me to that valuation tool that you mentioned? That would be helpful for me (if it is accurate)

Fortunately the specialist that rebuilt my engine provided me with a condition report on my car.

[citychap26]

belfry said:

Are you able to direct me to that valuation tool that you mentioned? That would be helpful for me (if it is accurate)

Fortunately the specialist that rebuilt my engine provided me with a condition report on my car.

You have mail.

[num2uk]

belfry said:

Are you able to direct me to that valuation tool that you mentioned? That would be helpful for me (if it is accurate)

Fortunately the specialist that rebuilt my engine provided me with a condition report on my car.

I had my 996 turbo stolen about 2 years ago now. In between getting the policy and the car getting stolen the market value of the car had increased by about £10k.

The insurance company's first offer was the original market value I had given them when getting the policy. I told them that the model had seen a substantial rise in value over the last 12 months and that this wouldn't get me a tired example, let alone a mint example equal to my car and provided several recent adverts that demonstrated this. They then came back after investigating themselves and also talking to the garage where I had an inspection done and the last service. The garage agreed that the car was in mint condition and the insurance company agreed that the new market value I had assigned the car was the right price and they finally paid out the right market value of the car. However they added an additional charge, which they took away from my payout, which was the amount of additional premium I would have paid if I had given them the new market value at the time I took the policy out.

So if you have a condition report on the car that works in your favor, that's good news and helps your argument. I would also contact your service garage to see if they will help assess the condition of the car, in addition to getting adverts for cars for sale. The other piece of advice I'll give, never accept their first offer, don't even accept their second offer :-) I hope the car is recovered if not I hope this helps to get you a decent payout.

[belfry]

This is helpful (to me and others). Thank you.

Fortunately the garage that rebuilt my engine gave me a condition report on the car, which should prove useful.

[Fish]

If you are underinsured and can show it has risen since renewal you maybe alright in that you will have to pay the premium increase but they may pay out on the higher figure.

Independent valuations etc will help.

[Adam B]

num2uk said:

the insurance company agreed that the new market value I had assigned the car was the right price and they finally paid out the right market value of the car. However they added an additional charge, which they took away from my payout, which was the amount of additional premium I would have paid if I had given them the new market value at the time I took the policy out.

that is very fair of them - could they argue that you deliberately undervalued your car to decrease premium, and therefore insurance was invalid as your car was more attractive to thieves than you declared?

[DJMC]

citychap26 said:

Sorry for delay in answering!

I was not aware that my LHD 964 was worth in the region of 45-70k! I had asked that it's agreed value be moved up to 20k a couple of years ago as it was only insured for 10k. The insurance company in question is one I have been with for 10 years or more.

Now post my car being stolen I found that their website has a valuation tool which values my car at 45k!

So in my opinion they know what the true value of the car is. Neither the broker or the underlying insurance company alerted me that I was under insured.

The annoying thing is that one does not think about these things, in this day and age, It's just too simple to auto renew.

So ladies and gents, make sure that your car is insured for it true value. Thus far the only winner here is the c*nt criminal(s) who have nicked my lovely car. The police couldn't give a f*** and the insurance company are ducking and diving.

Sorry for rant, however this has been going on for 6 months, @OP I hope you have more luck.

If your car is insured for £20k that's the maximum the insurer is going to pay out, BUT...

There may be an "Average" clause which deals with you underinsuring the car.

This means if it's worth £45k and insured for £20k they will pay 20/45ths of the sum insured:
20/45 x £20k = £8,888

See similar (for household insurance) here: http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications...

[Jim1556]

So it's insured for £20k but he gets less than £9k???

I hope that's a typo...

[Adam B]

no its not - see my post above

you have under-insured your possession 20 instead of 45

logic then goes you paid 20/45 of the premium you should have paid

so insurer pays you 20/45ths of your loss

[Jim1556]

But that's assuming a premium solely based on value. My £12k M3 is £7 a year more to insure than a £45k Cayman R I'm after...

[DJMC]

Jim1556 said:

But that's assuming a premium solely based on value. My £12k M3 is £7 a year more to insure than a £45k Cayman R I'm after...

Value is part of the premium basis, so is performance/risk and "the type of person who owns an M3."

And no, no typo, as has been pointed out above.

The "Average" clause may not be there. It won't apply on a "market value" basis policy as theres no exact value stated.

[schmunk]

DJMC said:

If your car is insured for £20k that's the maximum the insurer is going to pay out, BUT...

There may be an "Average" clause which deals with you underinsuring the car.

This means if it's worth £45k and insured for £20k they will pay 20/45ths of the sum insured:
20/45 x £20k = £8,888

See similar (for household insurance) here: http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications...

I think you're misconstruing that clause - it says that the insurer should pay:

(amount insured for) / (actual value of insured property) * (loss)

In this case, the loss is 100% of the car's actual value (£45k), so the payout should be limited to (£20k) / (£45k) * (£45k) = £20k.

For a partial loss, the payout would be 20/45 of the actual loss of value.

[num2uk]

Adam B said:

that is very fair of them - could they argue that you deliberately undervalued your car to decrease premium, and therefore insurance was invalid as your car was more attractive to thieves than you declared?

I guess they could, if they thought I had undervalued the car at the time. When I took out the policy I had just purchased the car and I valued the car at the purchase price. The garage also backed me up on the rise of the market price of the model. It did take a bit of fighting, but I got the impression that the insurance company had a process for going through this type of fight.

[BertBert]

I don't think that the value you give the insurance company limits the payout for a market value insurance policy. I think this for two reasons. One because I asked when getting a quote and two because the policy docs don't say that. Your policy may vary.

However for my two 911s which are classics I have an agreed value to avoid any such st should I have a total loss. Then if I under value, that's just down to me.

Bert