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And this is also another important point of comparison. In the UK the majority of Porsche purchasers took advantage of the lower cost finance ... across the range supposedly 90%, not sure what that would have been on a 911. Now a high percentage of that 90% can no longer afford the increased finance costs --- or no longer want to afford it.
And lastly ... blue collars may feel poorer but the American economy is doing very well ... the UK, not so well ... flatlining ?
When interest rates start falling this will help but we keep on getting inflationary shocks which may delay this ... and the IMF have just suggested that any tax cuts for 6th March budget are in their opinion unaffordable. Lovely.
And lastly ... blue collars may feel poorer but the American economy is doing very well ... the UK, not so well ... flatlining ?
When interest rates start falling this will help but we keep on getting inflationary shocks which may delay this ... and the IMF have just suggested that any tax cuts for 6th March budget are in their opinion unaffordable. Lovely.
ChrisW. said:
And this is also another important point of comparison. In the UK the majority of Porsche purchasers took advantage of the lower cost finance ... across the range supposedly 90%, not sure what that would have been on a 911. Now a high percentage of that 90% can no longer afford the increased finance costs --- or no longer want to afford it.
And lastly ... blue collars may feel poorer but the American economy is doing very well ... the UK, not so well ... flatlining ?
When interest rates start falling this will help but we keep on getting inflationary shocks which may delay this ... and the IMF have just suggested that any tax cuts for 6th March budget are in their opinion unaffordable. Lovely.
I would differentiate 911 buyers from the Macan / Cayenne buyers who will be far more likely to finance. And lastly ... blue collars may feel poorer but the American economy is doing very well ... the UK, not so well ... flatlining ?
When interest rates start falling this will help but we keep on getting inflationary shocks which may delay this ... and the IMF have just suggested that any tax cuts for 6th March budget are in their opinion unaffordable. Lovely.
The US economy is doing well. Consumer confidence is at a 2 year high here and unemployment is very low. Inflation is down to 3.3%, half of what it was a year ago. 401K's have recovered well and while interest rates are still relatively high (by modern standards) they are expected to come down this year.
unrepentant said:
I would differentiate 911 buyers from the Macan / Cayenne buyers who will be far more likely to finance.
The US economy is doing well. Consumer confidence is at a 2 year high here and unemployment is very low. Inflation is down to 3.3%, half of what it was a year ago. 401K's have recovered well and while interest rates are still relatively high (by modern standards) they are expected to come down this year.
It is amazing how well you have recovered, managed to get your national debt to almost zero. The US economy is doing well. Consumer confidence is at a 2 year high here and unemployment is very low. Inflation is down to 3.3%, half of what it was a year ago. 401K's have recovered well and while interest rates are still relatively high (by modern standards) they are expected to come down this year.
Ed.Neumann said:
unrepentant said:
I would differentiate 911 buyers from the Macan / Cayenne buyers who will be far more likely to finance.
The US economy is doing well. Consumer confidence is at a 2 year high here and unemployment is very low. Inflation is down to 3.3%, half of what it was a year ago. 401K's have recovered well and while interest rates are still relatively high (by modern standards) they are expected to come down this year.
It is amazing how well you have recovered, managed to get your national debt to almost zero. The US economy is doing well. Consumer confidence is at a 2 year high here and unemployment is very low. Inflation is down to 3.3%, half of what it was a year ago. 401K's have recovered well and while interest rates are still relatively high (by modern standards) they are expected to come down this year.
Porsche buyers are obviously more sophisticated than that but are also more likely to have benefitted from recent tax cuts and the wealthy have done pretty well over the past few years.
unrepentant said:
Ed.Neumann said:
unrepentant said:
I would differentiate 911 buyers from the Macan / Cayenne buyers who will be far more likely to finance.
The US economy is doing well. Consumer confidence is at a 2 year high here and unemployment is very low. Inflation is down to 3.3%, half of what it was a year ago. 401K's have recovered well and while interest rates are still relatively high (by modern standards) they are expected to come down this year.
It is amazing how well you have recovered, managed to get your national debt to almost zero. The US economy is doing well. Consumer confidence is at a 2 year high here and unemployment is very low. Inflation is down to 3.3%, half of what it was a year ago. 401K's have recovered well and while interest rates are still relatively high (by modern standards) they are expected to come down this year.
Porsche buyers are obviously more sophisticated than that but are also more likely to have benefitted from recent tax cuts and the wealthy have done pretty well over the past few years.
6 - 12 months the us economy will most likely be showing the systemic issues, especially if you have an increase in crude oil with middle east instability.
Th uk economy is a servant of the eu and us. Nothing much our weak politicians do has significant effect. Any one who tries to steer in a different direction is told no - lizz truss. Beholdent to money markets.
Porsche are not a brand for the ultra rich. They are most often bought with finance and until that stabilises this stock build up will persist. Well in the UK anyway.
unrepentant said:
I think most Americans look at their pay check, their 401K (if they have one), the price of gas and the cost of their mortgage or rent. The national debt is an abstract concept.
I agree 100%, same everywhere, but that is the problem. The US is buying time at the moment.
You are about to hit $1trn in interest debt a year for the first time, that is ridiculous.
That means the government would need to tax every US citizen that is in full time employment an extra $83,000 a year to just cover the interest, to stop the debt climbing. Every single person.
The US deficit is now at $1.7trn a year, so it is not like there is anywhere else to get the money from to pay down the debt.
The only reason the US citizens are feeling buoyant is because they don't understand what is going on, they don't understand that the printing machines are buying them time. The collapse is going to be horrific, for many. Not everyone, but many who thought they were the middle class and would be OK are going to be in for a shock.
Luckily there will be a pandemic/war/alien invasion/foreign cyber attack (choose whatever you want) to push the blame on, blame anyone else but those who have actually caused it.
As hyper inflation hits, as gas hits $10 a litre and as every one loses their jobs and their homes they will all shake their fists and shout "Grrrrrrr, bloody Russians/Iranians/Aliens you did this!!!!!"
Just kidding, it probably isn't that bad, but many need a reality check, they are clueless to just what is going on, hence "overs" on Porsches still.
But hopefully things will calm down and start to get back on track, we can't just keep pushing this debt onto the next generation.
Ed.Neumann said:
Just kidding, it probably isn't that bad, but many need a reality check, they are clueless to just what is going on, hence "overs" on Porsches still.
But hopefully things will calm down and start to get back on track, we can't just keep pushing this debt onto the next generation.
We didn't do overs on anything except RS cars and specials like the Dakar. As a result our customers turning in Macan's and Cayenne's on new ones are in good shape. The local MB dealer was doing $10k upwards over MSRP on all new cars in 2021 and they were not alone. Their customers are experiencing the pain of negative equity. But hopefully things will calm down and start to get back on track, we can't just keep pushing this debt onto the next generation.
We are still paying sticker or close to it to buy back 2 year old 992's.
Economic growth will hopefully start to eat into the debt at some point. The irony is the Republicans are bleating about it but 25% of it was created in just 4 years under Trump.
I'm not sure about the arithmetic on the interest at $1trn over 132 million employed in the US ...
Isn't this 1,000,000 million divided by 132 = around $7500 per employed person ?
Also, America is a nett exporter of oil and natural gas, so whilst Americans may pay more at the pumps this is just the equivalent of a tax which is all profit to the economy, plus the extra income from exports.
Growth is key. How many times is the debt interest covered and look at how the value of historical debt has been eroded by inflation ...
Finally, the move out of the office and commericial property ... yes this is an issue but it can be re-purposed and it's equity debt not on the same scale as Evergrande in China where a lot of Chinese people (personal debt) are paying mortgages on properties that were bought off-plan and are yet to be completed. This week Evergrande filed for bankruptcy with an estimated short-fall in excess of $300Bn ...
??
Isn't this 1,000,000 million divided by 132 = around $7500 per employed person ?
Also, America is a nett exporter of oil and natural gas, so whilst Americans may pay more at the pumps this is just the equivalent of a tax which is all profit to the economy, plus the extra income from exports.
Growth is key. How many times is the debt interest covered and look at how the value of historical debt has been eroded by inflation ...
Finally, the move out of the office and commericial property ... yes this is an issue but it can be re-purposed and it's equity debt not on the same scale as Evergrande in China where a lot of Chinese people (personal debt) are paying mortgages on properties that were bought off-plan and are yet to be completed. This week Evergrande filed for bankruptcy with an estimated short-fall in excess of $300Bn ...
??
Let's suppose there is a magic number somewhere which represents the total value of Quantitative Easing over the years when the world was trying to maintain growth (avoid deflation) ...
Does it matter what the total value is ... or if it were to double or increase by an order of magnitude ?
Is the Bank of England charging interest from GB UK PLC ??
Who knows ?
It's a bit like trying to explain the Universe by balancing out energy / mass and known gravitational effect ... it's balanced by a huge amount of dark matter and dark energy which nobody can see ... other than the fact that with estimates of this you can make the numbers work ???
Or for that matter the idea that the nett effect of matter and anti-matter is zero and therefore we don't need to ask where the material for our universe came from ??
Or the idea that everywhere is at the centre of the Universe because the Universe goes on for infinity ???
That's how Evergrande come to owe over $300 billion ???
And the magic answer is ... get out and enjoy whatever it is that you enjoy in the best way you can
The economy needs consumers ...
(With apologies up-front)
Does it matter what the total value is ... or if it were to double or increase by an order of magnitude ?
Is the Bank of England charging interest from GB UK PLC ??
Who knows ?
It's a bit like trying to explain the Universe by balancing out energy / mass and known gravitational effect ... it's balanced by a huge amount of dark matter and dark energy which nobody can see ... other than the fact that with estimates of this you can make the numbers work ???
Or for that matter the idea that the nett effect of matter and anti-matter is zero and therefore we don't need to ask where the material for our universe came from ??
Or the idea that everywhere is at the centre of the Universe because the Universe goes on for infinity ???
That's how Evergrande come to owe over $300 billion ???
And the magic answer is ... get out and enjoy whatever it is that you enjoy in the best way you can
The economy needs consumers ...(With apologies up-front)
tescor said:
Autotrader shows some price increases since Dec. Here's a good example....
Probably no surprise that the majority of these are convertibles, but there are also a few coupes too.
The above car has disappeared from AT now, although it's still listed on the Porsche website as available (at the same price) Probably no surprise that the majority of these are convertibles, but there are also a few coupes too.
Edited by tescor on Tuesday 30th January 09:48
The autotrader plugin certainly makes for some interesting reading on some cars, and will hopefully help with negotiations if you're interested. I can't imagine the Porsche dealers (or any seller) are too happy about this price history being available for all to see, e.g.
I sold a car to a dealer last March (not a Porsche) and it has been steadily dropping in price until a couple of weeks ago. It reduced in price by just under 14% over the initial 9 month period then increased by just under 3.5%. It could be a last roll of the dice to cajole people into thinking they need to buy before Spring when prices usually firm up.
BAMoFo said:
I sold a car to a dealer last March (not a Porsche) and it has been steadily dropping in price until a couple of weeks ago. It reduced in price by just under 14% over the initial 9 month period then increased by just under 3.5%. It could be a last roll of the dice to cajole people into thinking they need to buy before Spring when prices usually firm up.
dealers have been saying that since last january unrepentant said:
I would differentiate 911 buyers from the Macan / Cayenne buyers who will be far more likely to finance.
The US economy is doing well. Consumer confidence is at a 2 year high here and unemployment is very low. Inflation is down to 3.3%, half of what it was a year ago. 401K's have recovered well and while interest rates are still relatively high (by modern standards) they are expected to come down this year.
The US economy is doing well. Consumer confidence is at a 2 year high here and unemployment is very low. Inflation is down to 3.3%, half of what it was a year ago. 401K's have recovered well and while interest rates are still relatively high (by modern standards) they are expected to come down this year.
yeah right. they are in just as much trouble as everybody else. they just like sticking their head in the sand just like porsche dealers.the whole system is insolvent. they just keep kicking the can along, but sooner or later it will all come tumbling down.
the banking system is the biggest ponzi scheme know to man!
bankcorp started sending ripples through the system again yesterday.
Ed.Neumann said:
The only reason the US citizens are feeling buoyant is because they don't understand what is going on, they don't understand that the printing machines are buying them time. The collapse is going to be horrific, for EVERYBODY but many who thought they were the middle class and would be OK are going to be in for a shock.
Luckily there will be a pandemic/war/alien invasion/foreign cyber attack (choose whatever you want) to push the blame on, blame anyone else but those who have actually caused it.
you may mock, but there is an agenda at play and moving swiftly along. they openly tell you that you will own nothing and be happy. the nvo were in davos only a couple weeks planning their next steps. the great reset isnt far off!Luckily there will be a pandemic/war/alien invasion/foreign cyber attack (choose whatever you want) to push the blame on, blame anyone else but those who have actually caused it.
unrepentant said:
We didn't do overs on anything except RS cars and specials like the Dakar. As a result our customers turning in Macan's and Cayenne's on new ones are in good shape. The local MB dealer was doing $10k upwards over MSRP on all new cars in 2021 and they were not alone. Their customers are experiencing the pain of negative equity.
We are still paying sticker or close to it to buy back 2 year old 992's.
Economic growth will hopefully start to eat into the debt at some point. The irony is the Republicans are bleating about it but 25% of it was created in just 4 years under Trump.
We bought an Audi in 2022 when most dealers were doing $15k over. I called one up and asked if I could pay list and the guy laughed and said sure... why? I went down there and bought a car. Less than a week later they also stuck $15k on cars. We are still paying sticker or close to it to buy back 2 year old 992's.
Economic growth will hopefully start to eat into the debt at some point. The irony is the Republicans are bleating about it but 25% of it was created in just 4 years under Trump.
The Audi E-Tron GT list was $105k with the $15k on top people were paying $120k+tax. 18 months later and thats a $60k car.
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