Lots of brand new Porsches immediately available

[Sidsw]

Chemical Ali said:

Debt. Does make you wonder - if everyone is in debt, who are they borrowing off?

Can't all be vw finance, can it?

i thought it was the wizard of oz

[ChrisW.]

h0b0 said:

unrepentant said:

We didn't do overs on anything except RS cars and specials like the Dakar. As a result our customers turning in Macan's and Cayenne's on new ones are in good shape. The local MB dealer was doing $10k upwards over MSRP on all new cars in 2021 and they were not alone. Their customers are experiencing the pain of negative equity.

We are still paying sticker or close to it to buy back 2 year old 992's.

Economic growth will hopefully start to eat into the debt at some point. The irony is the Republicans are bleating about it but 25% of it was created in just 4 years under Trump.

We bought an Audi in 2022 when most dealers were doing $15k over. I called one up and asked if I could pay list and the guy laughed and said sure... why? I went down there and bought a car. Less than a week later they also stuck $15k on cars.

The Audi E-Tron GT list was $105k with the $15k on top people were paying $120k+tax. 18 months later and thats a $60k car.

I read on PH (so it must be true) that they were trying to sell them at half price in China ...

[unrepentant]

Sidsw said:

unrepentant said:

We didn't do overs on anything except RS cars and specials like the Dakar.

not true according to stuff i read on rennlist people were paying overs on turbo s and maybe other models

You can read whatever you want mate. We (as in our dealership) did not charge over MSRP on any new vehicle except RS cars and specials. Some Porsche dealerships may have, many dealerships of all types did - $10k over on Kia Telluride, $10k over on a Ford Bronco etc.. but we chose not to. We don't sell new sports cars out of state either.

[unrepentant]

h0b0 said:

We bought an Audi in 2022 when most dealers were doing $15k over. I called one up and asked if I could pay list and the guy laughed and said sure... why? I went down there and bought a car. Less than a week later they also stuck $15k on cars.

The Audi E-Tron GT list was $105k with the $15k on top people were paying $120k+tax. 18 months later and thats a $60k car.

It was a short sighted policy by a lot of dealers IMO. Their customers are now buried in their cars and there is resentment towards dealers who gouged. Mercedes-Benz (and others) also put a block on their lease customers trading out through non Benz dealers. So people who leased a Benz, probably paid a premium and then wanted to trade out were stuck in it.

[Ed.Neumann]

ChrisW. said:

I'm not sure about the arithmetic on the interest at $1trn over 132 million employed in the US ...

Isn't this 1,000,000 million divided by 132 = around $7500 per employed person ?

Also, America is a nett exporter of oil and natural gas, so whilst Americans may pay more at the pumps this is just the equivalent of a tax which is all profit to the economy, plus the extra income from exports.

Growth is key. How many times is the debt interest covered and look at how the value of historical debt has been eroded by inflation ...

Finally, the move out of the office and commericial property ... yes this is an issue but it can be re-purposed and it's equity debt not on the same scale as Evergrande in China where a lot of Chinese people (personal debt) are paying mortgages on properties that were bought off-plan and are yet to be completed. This week Evergrande filed for bankruptcy with an estimated short-fall in excess of $300Bn ...

??

I thought about that after I posted and knew it was not right.

I grabbed my figure from somewhere and looking back that was discussing how much each would have to pay to get the debt down over 5 years if the economy grew.

The were talking about the debt and US deficit of $1.7trn.

$1.7trn divided by 130m is roughly $13k each.






Don't get me started on inflation. People convinced it is a good thing.




Anyway......looks like many of the well prices nearly new 992s have gone.

Good, want to see things selling.

[Wills2]

unrepentant said:

stuckmojo said:

Ed.Neumann said:

The Porsche USA is offering 7.9% apr on a 992, compared to 11.9% here, massive difference to monthlies. Plus a 992 T for example comes in around £95k compared to our £106k.

18 months back we were a bit cheaper than you, UK has fines planned this year of $20,000 for every car Porsche sells if 22% of all cars sold are not EVs, so Porsche have no doubt priced that in to the price as it was only 11.5% last year.

Your retail finance price of £2k a month over 60 months and then own it, is what many are paying here, and after 60 months they have to pay another $60,000 to keep the car.

Really good post. It shows clearly why one must really want to finance a Porsche for a period and then they still haven't even bought half of it. Wow.

A base T here is $126,550 which is UKP 99,600. UK price is UKP 105,700. But our prices don't include sales tax, yours do include the VAT. Ave sales tax is 7% so add that and we're at exactly the same price as the UK.

PFS rate is 7.99% but on 911's it's usually a moot point as many buyers stroke a cheque.

The US is much wealthier than the UK, you have the world's reserve currency you can print what you like, sterling has been and is in a death spiral since 2008 against the Euro and Dollar, you sell 3 times as many but have 5 times the population, so have more people chasing fewer cars as a ratio compared to the UK, the average salary in the US is almost 50% higher than the UK so you have a much bigger pool of people that can afford the cars.

Hence you have to wait for an order over there and they are sat on forecourts in the UK

[ChrisW.]

Ed.Neumann said:

ChrisW. said:

I'm not sure about the arithmetic on the interest at $1trn over 132 million employed in the US ...

Isn't this 1,000,000 million divided by 132 = around $7500 per employed person ?

Also, America is a nett exporter of oil and natural gas, so whilst Americans may pay more at the pumps this is just the equivalent of a tax which is all profit to the economy, plus the extra income from exports.

Growth is key. How many times is the debt interest covered and look at how the value of historical debt has been eroded by inflation ...

Finally, the move out of the office and commericial property ... yes this is an issue but it can be re-purposed and it's equity debt not on the same scale as Evergrande in China where a lot of Chinese people (personal debt) are paying mortgages on properties that were bought off-plan and are yet to be completed. This week Evergrande filed for bankruptcy with an estimated short-fall in excess of $300Bn ...

??

I thought about that after I posted and knew it was not right.

I grabbed my figure from somewhere and looking back that was discussing how much each would have to pay to get the debt down over 5 years if the economy grew.

The were talking about the debt and US deficit of $1.7trn.

$1.7trn divided by 130m is roughly $13k each.






Don't get me started on inflation. People convinced it is a good thing.




Anyway......looks like many of the well prices nearly new 992s have gone.

Good, want to see things selling.

That's why I so often give an opinion with a question mark ... it makes it easier to be corrected where I have made a mistake !!

Of course ... I am still waiting to be corrected

[ChrisW.]

Wills2 said:

unrepentant said:

stuckmojo said:

Ed.Neumann said:

The Porsche USA is offering 7.9% apr on a 992, compared to 11.9% here, massive difference to monthlies. Plus a 992 T for example comes in around £95k compared to our £106k.

18 months back we were a bit cheaper than you, UK has fines planned this year of $20,000 for every car Porsche sells if 22% of all cars sold are not EVs, so Porsche have no doubt priced that in to the price as it was only 11.5% last year.

Your retail finance price of £2k a month over 60 months and then own it, is what many are paying here, and after 60 months they have to pay another $60,000 to keep the car.

Really good post. It shows clearly why one must really want to finance a Porsche for a period and then they still haven't even bought half of it. Wow.

A base T here is $126,550 which is UKP 99,600. UK price is UKP 105,700. But our prices don't include sales tax, yours do include the VAT. Ave sales tax is 7% so add that and we're at exactly the same price as the UK.

PFS rate is 7.99% but on 911's it's usually a moot point as many buyers stroke a cheque.

The US is much wealthier than the UK, you have the world's reserve currency you can print what you like, sterling has been and is in a death spiral since 2008 against the Euro and Dollar, you sell 3 times as many but have 5 times the population, so have more people chasing fewer cars as a ratio compared to the UK, the average salary in the US is almost 50% higher than the UK so you have a much bigger pool of people that can afford the cars.

Hence you have to wait for an order over there and they are sat on forecourts in the UK

Part of the problem is the RHD market. The UK is 10% of Porsche sales and the biggest RHD market, so if the UK falters it takes a while for the supply /demand balance to be recovered. But it will be ...

The USA is LHD as is the majority of porsche production, therefore it takes less time and production can more easily be re-routed.

Porsche are proven masters at managing their volumes ... so the UK problem may be a big problem for UK dealers but it's a relatively little problem for Porsche.

UK prices / overstock appears to have bottomed at the end of 2023 ... but we might know more mid March for the the first quarter of '24 !

I wonder how responsive the delivery pipeline is ?

[Buster73]

BAMoFo said:

I sold a car to a dealer last March (not a Porsche) and it has been steadily dropping in price until a couple of weeks ago. It reduced in price by just under 14% over the initial 9 month period then increased by just under 3.5%. It could be a last roll of the dice to cajole people into thinking they need to buy before Spring when prices usually firm up.

I part ex’d a car in October, I kept an eye on the advert on AT , the price it was advertised at first was £49k , the last advert I saw was £38.5k plus an additional £1.5k support so a nett £37k

They gave me £45.5k trade in.

Scary times for a dealer.

[Youforreal.]

Buster73 said:

BAMoFo said:

I sold a car to a dealer last March (not a Porsche) and it has been steadily dropping in price until a couple of weeks ago. It reduced in price by just under 14% over the initial 9 month period then increased by just under 3.5%. It could be a last roll of the dice to cajole people into thinking they need to buy before Spring when prices usually firm up.

I part ex’d a car in October, I kept an eye on the advert on AT , the price it was advertised at first was £49k , the last advert I saw was £38.5k plus an additional £1.5k support so a nett £37k

They gave me £45.5k trade in.

Scary times for a dealer.

Which model was it?

[Ed.Neumann]

ChrisW. said:

That's why I so often give an opinion with a question mark ... it makes it easier to be corrected where I have made a mistake !!

Of course ... I am still waiting to be corrected

Haha, not at all, I'm agreeing with you.

[GT4RS]

Buster73 said:

BAMoFo said:

I sold a car to a dealer last March (not a Porsche) and it has been steadily dropping in price until a couple of weeks ago. It reduced in price by just under 14% over the initial 9 month period then increased by just under 3.5%. It could be a last roll of the dice to cajole people into thinking they need to buy before Spring when prices usually firm up.

I part ex’d a car in October, I kept an eye on the advert on AT , the price it was advertised at first was £49k , the last advert I saw was £38.5k plus an additional £1.5k support so a nett £37k

They gave me £45.5k trade in.

Scary times for a dealer.

Sounds like you sold at the right time.

Well played.

[youngsyr]

Buster73 said:

BAMoFo said:

I sold a car to a dealer last March (not a Porsche) and it has been steadily dropping in price until a couple of weeks ago. It reduced in price by just under 14% over the initial 9 month period then increased by just under 3.5%. It could be a last roll of the dice to cajole people into thinking they need to buy before Spring when prices usually firm up.

I part ex’d a car in October, I kept an eye on the advert on AT , the price it was advertised at first was £49k , the last advert I saw was £38.5k plus an additional £1.5k support so a nett £37k

They gave me £45.5k trade in.

Scary times for a dealer.

Thats only half the story though - how much did you give the dealer for your new car and which model is it?

[Sierra Mike]

unrepentant said:

Sidsw said:

unrepentant said:

We didn't do overs on anything except RS cars and specials like the Dakar.

not true according to stuff i read on rennlist people were paying overs on turbo s and maybe other models

You can read whatever you want mate. We (as in our dealership) did not charge over MSRP on any new vehicle except RS cars and specials. Some Porsche dealerships may have, many dealerships of all types did - $10k over on Kia Telluride, $10k over on a Ford Bronco etc.. but we chose not to. We don't sell new sports cars out of state either.

That is exactly what my Chicago based Porsche dealership did. All cars were sold for no more than MSRP except for GT cars and specials. Fantastic dealership with amazing staff and service. I wish my UK based OPCs were half as good.

[AMTony]

Turbo S at Isle of Man OPC seems cheap.
Great spec but been for sale for a while.
Anyone know whats wrong with the car?

[h0b0]

I was told by my NJ OPC they were not allowed to mark up the prices. My dealer are fantastic both in sales and service. When I was looking for my car 8 years ago I went in to talk about hybrid cayennes. I was told they would rather broker a private sale, including inspection for free on another model, than sell me a hybrid. I ended up buying a GTS. More recently I had two budgets in mind. First was cash and second would use finance. They told me to rule out finance because it was too expensive. They also said to hold off buying because my cash budget would get me the latest model if I wait a few months.


No hard sell and always eager to help.

On the absolute opposite end of the scale is Audi. Their service is shocking. They wash their hands of their products because they can’t fix them. I have been lied to by 3 different service managers because they can’t sort issues out. I would never have another and a bunch of my friends in the same situation.

Edited by h0b0 on Friday 2nd February 02:04

[Youforreal.]

Sierra Mike said:

unrepentant said:

Sidsw said:

unrepentant said:

We didn't do overs on anything except RS cars and specials like the Dakar.

not true according to stuff i read on rennlist people were paying overs on turbo s and maybe other models

You can read whatever you want mate. We (as in our dealership) did not charge over MSRP on any new vehicle except RS cars and specials. Some Porsche dealerships may have, many dealerships of all types did - $10k over on Kia Telluride, $10k over on a Ford Bronco etc.. but we chose not to. We don't sell new sports cars out of state either.

That is exactly what my Chicago based Porsche dealership did. All cars were sold for no more than MSRP except for GT cars and specials. Fantastic dealership with amazing staff and service. I wish my UK based OPCs were half as good.

What….you mean everything on a forum isn’t the gospel truth?

Edited by Youforreal. on Friday 2nd February 09:37

[Buster73]

youngsyr said:

Thats only half the story though - how much did you give the dealer for your new car and which model is it?

RRS in as px and took delivery of a new RR HSE at less than list price.

[jasonrobertson86]

AMTony said:

Turbo S at Isle of Man OPC seems cheap.
Great spec but been for sale for a while.
Anyone know whats wrong with the car?

I doubt an OPC is selling a car with something they know is wrong with it.

[Chemical Ali]

Sierra Mike said:

That is exactly what my Chicago based Porsche dealership did. All cars were sold for no more than MSRP except for GT cars and specials. Fantastic dealership with amazing staff and service. I wish my UK based OPCs were half as good.

They are half as good.