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Discussion
maura said:
If they are not happy with 992.1 prices wait to see their reaction in 6 more days when 992.2 is launched!
Just looking on Rennlist and someone from the uk got a screen shot showing £107000 for a base carrera on the Uk website that has now been taken down. Looks like even with a few options a standard Carrera 992.2 is going to be £115000. Chipper said:
Wheelspinning said:
Not sure where you get that.
I had an updated WBAC for my crayon '23 plate 1900 miles GTS cab yesterday and it was £98k.
Fortunately I sold it a few months ago.
The 992 market is fecked.
The T that I rejected as it somehow came without the areokit back in September is still for sale at the dealer now as a 'demo'; its got 2k miles and £26k less than my spec price.
Whoever screwed my order up for that is due a large drink on me.
You can find a 23 GTS Cabriolet with low mileage from several dealers, priced between £115,000 and £125,000. If you bought one new, it's wise not to sell within the first year, as the resale value would drop to around £98,000. Given that you can purchase one from a main dealer starting at £115,000, this depreciation is expected, especially with higher interest rates. It seems the era of buying expensive sports cars on credit is waning; now, only those who can truly afford them are making such purchases, rather than those stretched thin by financing.I had an updated WBAC for my crayon '23 plate 1900 miles GTS cab yesterday and it was £98k.
Fortunately I sold it a few months ago.
The 992 market is fecked.
The T that I rejected as it somehow came without the areokit back in September is still for sale at the dealer now as a 'demo'; its got 2k miles and £26k less than my spec price.
Whoever screwed my order up for that is due a large drink on me.
If I recall correctly, you chose a yellow model T (which I personally love) with non-T wheels and a PDK transmission and an aero kit ? . This specific configuration can be challenging to sell. Realistically, selling a mass-produced vehicle costing over £120,000 within the first year is tough. but anything more than £110,000 for a T is ambitious if you want to get out. I'm not criticizing your choice—if that's what you want and you can afford it, enjoy it in good health. However, it's not fair to claim the 992 market is problematic just because your option selection on the T increased the price by over £10,000 of where it needs to be, leading to an immediate loss due to the options. Most mass-produced vehicles in this price range lose a minimum of £20,000 in standard depreciation in their first year, so you're looking at a minimum drop of £30,000 if you sell back to the dealer. Many people who bought 911s when interest rates were low are now unable to absorb this kind of loss.
However, there is a silver lining. There are some excellent bargains available, and cars are selling, as evidenced by firm bids from dealers offering prices above WBAC levels. The real issue is that many people are struggling to adjust to higher interest rates and the new financial landscape.
The last time I looked the dealer was still trying to offload it at far below list.
The reason I posted was to counter your statement WBAC has increased their 992 prices by £5K.
It's simply not true.
You are right about 992GTS cabs listed at main dealers nearly new for £115k+, but if WBAC are valuing that at £98k, what do you think an OPC would offer?
It's still an instant £20k tanking.
I have never put the T we rejected onto the WBAC site; if a GTS cab was £98k, the T could very easily start with a 7.
I'm not one of those people who talk nonsense on a forum whilst cutting about in a golf; I ordered, bought ( rejected) and sold the cars we are discussing, so have some skin in the game.
The whole market is seriously slumped, not just Porsche.
Wheelspinning said:
Chipper said:
Wheelspinning said:
Not sure where you get that.
I had an updated WBAC for my crayon '23 plate 1900 miles GTS cab yesterday and it was £98k.
Fortunately I sold it a few months ago.
The 992 market is fecked.
The T that I rejected as it somehow came without the areokit back in September is still for sale at the dealer now as a 'demo'; its got 2k miles and £26k less than my spec price.
Whoever screwed my order up for that is due a large drink on me.
You can find a 23 GTS Cabriolet with low mileage from several dealers, priced between £115,000 and £125,000. If you bought one new, it's wise not to sell within the first year, as the resale value would drop to around £98,000. Given that you can purchase one from a main dealer starting at £115,000, this depreciation is expected, especially with higher interest rates. It seems the era of buying expensive sports cars on credit is waning; now, only those who can truly afford them are making such purchases, rather than those stretched thin by financing.I had an updated WBAC for my crayon '23 plate 1900 miles GTS cab yesterday and it was £98k.
Fortunately I sold it a few months ago.
The 992 market is fecked.
The T that I rejected as it somehow came without the areokit back in September is still for sale at the dealer now as a 'demo'; its got 2k miles and £26k less than my spec price.
Whoever screwed my order up for that is due a large drink on me.
If I recall correctly, you chose a yellow model T (which I personally love) with non-T wheels and a PDK transmission and an aero kit ? . This specific configuration can be challenging to sell. Realistically, selling a mass-produced vehicle costing over £120,000 within the first year is tough. but anything more than £110,000 for a T is ambitious if you want to get out. I'm not criticizing your choice—if that's what you want and you can afford it, enjoy it in good health. However, it's not fair to claim the 992 market is problematic just because your option selection on the T increased the price by over £10,000 of where it needs to be, leading to an immediate loss due to the options. Most mass-produced vehicles in this price range lose a minimum of £20,000 in standard depreciation in their first year, so you're looking at a minimum drop of £30,000 if you sell back to the dealer. Many people who bought 911s when interest rates were low are now unable to absorb this kind of loss.
However, there is a silver lining. There are some excellent bargains available, and cars are selling, as evidenced by firm bids from dealers offering prices above WBAC levels. The real issue is that many people are struggling to adjust to higher interest rates and the new financial landscape.
The last time I looked the dealer was still trying to offload it at far below list.
The reason I posted was to counter your statement WBAC has increased their 992 prices by £5K.
It's simply not true.
You are right about 992GTS cabs listed at main dealers nearly new for £115k+, but if WBAC are valuing that at £98k, what do you think an OPC would offer?
It's still an instant £20k tanking.
I have never put the T we rejected onto the WBAC site; if a GTS cab was £98k, the T could very easily start with a 7.
I'm not one of those people who talk nonsense on a forum whilst cutting about in a golf; I ordered, bought ( rejected) and sold the cars we are discussing, so have some skin in the game.
The whole market is seriously slumped, not just Porsche.
For the Crayon GTS Cab with less than 2000 miles, a main dealer I think would offer around from £105,000 to possible £110,000 depending on the specifications.
You're right about the T's value. In December, WBAC offered around £78,000, while currently, it's £83,000, and trade bids at dealers are between £85,000 and £86,000.
Overall, unless you're very wealthy, buying new isn't advisable. Car prices are high, and with inflation, they're unlikely to decrease. The remaining Gen 1 992 stock will imo sell quickly though. Mainly because a lot of it will get pre registered and my gut is Gen 2 will make it look cheap.
Chipper said:
I’m comparing the prices of cars I've been tracking from just two dates: December 23 and now, May 24. There's been a £5000 improvement which as you can imagine the start of summer is also expected.
For the Crayon GTS Cab with less than 2000 miles, a main dealer I think would offer around from £105,000 to possible £110,000 depending on the specifications.
You're right about the T's value. In December, WBAC offered around £78,000, while currently, it's £83,000, and trade bids at dealers are between £85,000 and £86,000.
Overall, unless you're very wealthy, buying new isn't advisable. Car prices are high, and with inflation, they're unlikely to decrease. The remaining Gen 1 992 stock will imo sell quickly though. Mainly because a lot of it will get pre registered and my gut is Gen 2 will make it look cheap.
My july 23 GTS cab with 1600 miles was valued by WBAC in early February for I thought a comical £112k.For the Crayon GTS Cab with less than 2000 miles, a main dealer I think would offer around from £105,000 to possible £110,000 depending on the specifications.
You're right about the T's value. In December, WBAC offered around £78,000, while currently, it's £83,000, and trade bids at dealers are between £85,000 and £86,000.
Overall, unless you're very wealthy, buying new isn't advisable. Car prices are high, and with inflation, they're unlikely to decrease. The remaining Gen 1 992 stock will imo sell quickly though. Mainly because a lot of it will get pre registered and my gut is Gen 2 will make it look cheap.
I was pinged up updated valuation yesterday for £98k based on 1900 miles.
I don't see where this £5k rise is; I see £14k less in 3mths.
A great spec 73 plate T on autotrader with 2k miles reg FL73 RHE has a current WBAC valuation at £80k.
The 992s are not increasing in value.
I would be pretty amazed if any OPC was offering £86k to buy in a T unless it was some seriously outstanding spec that they had a buyer waiting on, and even then its a real stretch.
If you have one, keep it and enjoy for a few years and run the loss down.
If your buying, go used and aim to pay £90k or less.
Even a £160k nearly new turbo s might look an absolute steal at the moment, but that could easily be a £30k drop by autumn.
After years of near depreciation free motoring, it has bit back with a vengeance.
14months ago buying was very hard, selling was very easy...its now the complete opposite, except the selling bit is much harder than the buying part was.
I understand your point, Wheelspinning. I have two dealership groups ready to buy at £85,000 and £86,000, respectively. My car has a nice spec and it's a manual. Dealers need stock and sales, and for a one-year-old car, £100,000 retail for a Porsche 911 will soon not seem excessive. If the 992.2 model is indeed starting at £107,000, we will likely see all the Gen 1 stock sell quickly if they pre reg them or support them with good part exchange offers. £15,000 to £20,000 or even £30000 depreciation in less than six months could be a great for a buyer planning on keeping long-term.
This is WBAC valuation for my car.
This is WBAC valuation for my car.
Was at an OPC yesterday and spoke to them about a GT3 they had and noticed that there were a huge number of cars in their car park, albeit mostly used.
I said "are cars not selling then?" his response was, "we're definitely selling similar numbers of cars as last year, the issue we have is with the number of cancelled orders. Probably down to interest rates".
"Used cars are selling well. New ones are probably down a bit, but the cars are definitely going".
I did enquire why there are cars on AT that aren't on the Porsche Site, he said "we put them on AT, Head Office uploads to the Porsche site".
The sales guy was only a young fella so probably not as cynical or guarded as the older sales personnel you would come across.
I did notice they didn't have many Taycans though.
I said "are cars not selling then?" his response was, "we're definitely selling similar numbers of cars as last year, the issue we have is with the number of cancelled orders. Probably down to interest rates".
"Used cars are selling well. New ones are probably down a bit, but the cars are definitely going".
I did enquire why there are cars on AT that aren't on the Porsche Site, he said "we put them on AT, Head Office uploads to the Porsche site".
The sales guy was only a young fella so probably not as cynical or guarded as the older sales personnel you would come across.
I did notice they didn't have many Taycans though.
Geoffcapes said:
Was at an OPC yesterday and spoke to them about a GT3 they had and noticed that there were a huge number of cars in their car park, albeit mostly used.
I said "are cars not selling then?" his response was, "we're definitely selling similar numbers of cars as last year, the issue we have is with the number of cancelled orders. Probably down to interest rates".
"Used cars are selling well. New ones are probably down a bit, but the cars are definitely going".
I did enquire why there are cars on AT that aren't on the Porsche Site, he said "we put them on AT, Head Office uploads to the Porsche site".
The sales guy was only a young fella so probably not as cynical or guarded as the older sales personnel you would come across.
I did notice they didn't have many Taycans though.
You’re not supposed to post stuff like that on this thread. I said "are cars not selling then?" his response was, "we're definitely selling similar numbers of cars as last year, the issue we have is with the number of cancelled orders. Probably down to interest rates".
"Used cars are selling well. New ones are probably down a bit, but the cars are definitely going".
I did enquire why there are cars on AT that aren't on the Porsche Site, he said "we put them on AT, Head Office uploads to the Porsche site".
The sales guy was only a young fella so probably not as cynical or guarded as the older sales personnel you would come across.
I did notice they didn't have many Taycans though.
Chipper said:
Geoffcapes said:
Was at an OPC yesterday and spoke to them about a GT3 they had and noticed that there were a huge number of cars in their car park, albeit mostly used.
I said "are cars not selling then?" his response was, "we're definitely selling similar numbers of cars as last year, the issue we have is with the number of cancelled orders. Probably down to interest rates".
"Used cars are selling well. New ones are probably down a bit, but the cars are definitely going".
I did enquire why there are cars on AT that aren't on the Porsche Site, he said "we put them on AT, Head Office uploads to the Porsche site".
The sales guy was only a young fella so probably not as cynical or guarded as the older sales personnel you would come across.
I did notice they didn't have many Taycans though.
You’re not supposed to post stuff like that on this thread. I said "are cars not selling then?" his response was, "we're definitely selling similar numbers of cars as last year, the issue we have is with the number of cancelled orders. Probably down to interest rates".
"Used cars are selling well. New ones are probably down a bit, but the cars are definitely going".
I did enquire why there are cars on AT that aren't on the Porsche Site, he said "we put them on AT, Head Office uploads to the Porsche site".
The sales guy was only a young fella so probably not as cynical or guarded as the older sales personnel you would come across.
I did notice they didn't have many Taycans though.
Chipper said:
maura said:
If they are not happy with 992.1 prices wait to see their reaction in 6 more days when 992.2 is launched!
Just looking on Rennlist and someone from the uk got a screen shot showing £107000 for a base carrera on the Uk website that has now been taken down. Looks like even with a few options a standard Carrera 992.2 is going to be £115000. Link for the doubters:https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsche-911-carrera-gts-preowned-4W2WKE?model=911&category=911-carrera-gts-coupe&order=mileage_asc
Edited by GT4P on Thursday 23 May 11:23
GT4P said:
Why would anyone pay that when you can get a brand new 992.1 Gts for less than £120k (list £130k+)
Link for the doubters:https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsche-911-carrera-gts-preowned-4W2WKE?model=911&category=911-carrera-gts-coupe&order=mileage_asc
Im not saying they would but if the price is being upped it will make Gen.1 stock look slightly better value especially if buying a pre regLink for the doubters:https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsche-911-carrera-gts-preowned-4W2WKE?model=911&category=911-carrera-gts-coupe&order=mileage_asc
Edited by GT4P on Thursday 23 May 11:23
Also that link is a cracking buy and where they should be imo .
Are you going to buy it GT4P or is it still too high for you ?
Edited by Chipper on Thursday 23 May 12:22
Geoffcapes said:
Was at an OPC yesterday and spoke to them about a GT3 they had and noticed that there were a huge number of cars in their car park, albeit mostly used.
I said "are cars not selling then?" his response was, "we're definitely selling similar numbers of cars as last year, the issue we have is with the number of cancelled orders. Probably down to interest rates".
"Used cars are selling well. New ones are probably down a bit, but the cars are definitely going".
I did enquire why there are cars on AT that aren't on the Porsche Site, he said "we put them on AT, Head Office uploads to the Porsche site".
The sales guy was only a young fella so probably not as cynical or guarded as the older sales personnel you would come across.
I did notice they didn't have many Taycans though.
all sales persons are told what to say to potential customers.I said "are cars not selling then?" his response was, "we're definitely selling similar numbers of cars as last year, the issue we have is with the number of cancelled orders. Probably down to interest rates".
"Used cars are selling well. New ones are probably down a bit, but the cars are definitely going".
I did enquire why there are cars on AT that aren't on the Porsche Site, he said "we put them on AT, Head Office uploads to the Porsche site".
The sales guy was only a young fella so probably not as cynical or guarded as the older sales personnel you would come across.
I did notice they didn't have many Taycans though.
cars are selling, but nowhere near the number of the past few years. new car sales have fallen off a cliff.
older car prices have stabilized to a degree. people who would have bought new/newer cars are now looking at buying older cars and this is the reason opc's are looking for stock. they need to be selling something to keep turnover up.
as for cars suddenly disappering from porsche finder, this is due to a porsche directive, telling opc's they are no longer allowed to advertise cars in transtit and they are each limited to advertising around new 7 cars at any one time, to try to make it look like there is a limited amount of stock available.
they have not been restricted from advertising on other platforms as of yet, hence the reason you can still see cars advertised on autotrader that are not on porsche finder.
not sure how they expect to sell cars if they are not advertising them. the days of people just wondering into showrooms and buying cars on a whim are well and truly over. today sales are driven by the web and the more exposure your stock has the better your chances of selling it!
Chipper said:
If you're dropping £175,000+ on a Turbo S, you're going to take a serious financial hit. However, around October, there were some great deals on new Turbo S models for about £165,000. I get it—this thread can be helpful. I used it and posted my T price when I bought, which was about £15,000 below the list price at the time.
But it's the few who keep rambling on with no intention of buying that get to me. I suspect they can't afford it because the financing is too high but are hoping that prices drop.
I've just posted that WBAC seems to have increased prices by £5,000. Plus, my dealer is keen to buy stock at better prices than WBAC. So, it can't be as bad as the regular contributors say. I mean, why would a dealer with supposedly too much stock be actively trying to buy more at higher prices than WBAC?
I observed on my travels my local dealer still has nowhere to park on site there have so much stock , but another opc I drove by had very little stock on the forecourt .But it's the few who keep rambling on with no intention of buying that get to me. I suspect they can't afford it because the financing is too high but are hoping that prices drop.
I've just posted that WBAC seems to have increased prices by £5,000. Plus, my dealer is keen to buy stock at better prices than WBAC. So, it can't be as bad as the regular contributors say. I mean, why would a dealer with supposedly too much stock be actively trying to buy more at higher prices than WBAC?
You may find some dealers overstocked and some under stocked hence the offers you receive ?
My experience with my local opc made me very nervous .
I rang up about turbo s and was told 6 months delivery this was March /April last year. I went into showroom and saw their stock level and heard a salesman complain that porsche U.K. had dumped loads of cars on them .
When I got talking to salesman I was told there was a price increase on the turbo s which I would have to pay , I said then I’m not interested and told him there were so many used ones around . He said wait a minute then came back and offered me cars to my spec with June delivery and said they would keep the Current price . My spider senses tingled and I thought there’s a big fall coming here so I walked away .
Wheelspinning said:
The reason I posted was to counter your statement WBAC has increased their 992 prices by £5K.
It's simply not true.
Hold on, you can both be right here. It's simply not true.
WBAC tend to ignore "most" options, so a car that has very few may well have gone up £5k as spring arrives, and a car that has quite a few could well have gone down a bit more.
I think considering 90% of cars are purchased on finance, the fact Porsche is charging double base rate, and the fact the cheaper high street lenders won't finance anywhere near enough, oh, and the prices have jumped 20% since the launch.....taking all that into consideration they are doing OK on sales.
franki68 said:
I observed on my travels my local dealer still has nowhere to park on site there have so much stock , but another opc I drove by had very little stock on the forecourt .
You may find some dealers overstocked and some under stocked hence the offers you receive ?
My experience with my local opc made me very nervous .
I rang up about turbo s and was told 6 months delivery this was March /April last year. I went into showroom and saw their stock level and heard a salesman complain that porsche U.K. had dumped loads of cars on them .
When I got talking to salesman I was told there was a price increase on the turbo s which I would have to pay , I said then I’m not interested and told him there were so many used ones around . He said wait a minute then came back and offered me cars to my spec with June delivery and said they would keep the Current price . My spider senses tingled and I thought there’s a big fall coming here so I walked away .
I wouldn't entertain buying a new Porsche of any type unless they were offing a GT3 or that type. There are too many good deals on used or pre reg. You may find some dealers overstocked and some under stocked hence the offers you receive ?
My experience with my local opc made me very nervous .
I rang up about turbo s and was told 6 months delivery this was March /April last year. I went into showroom and saw their stock level and heard a salesman complain that porsche U.K. had dumped loads of cars on them .
When I got talking to salesman I was told there was a price increase on the turbo s which I would have to pay , I said then I’m not interested and told him there were so many used ones around . He said wait a minute then came back and offered me cars to my spec with June delivery and said they would keep the Current price . My spider senses tingled and I thought there’s a big fall coming here so I walked away .
Chipper said:
Are you going to buy it GT4P or is it still too high for you ?
Not in the market for a 992 Gts and never have been , drove one about 2 years ago and it left me cold!Edited by Chipper on Thursday 23 May 12:22
For me if I was going 911 it would have to be 997.2 manual or 991.2 either box!
Chemical Ali said:
Chipper said:
911hope said:
I believe the title of the thread is about availability of cars at Porsche dealerships. Nothing to do with the ownership experience.
The title should be changed toThe Elite Club of Stock Talkers: We Won’t Stop Until Prices Pop
290 pages of the same few people endlessly droning on about how "they've been to a dealership and never seen so many cars," "their buddy the salesman told them…", and "you're paying too much." I'd get it if these folks posted about snagging a great deal and showed off enjoying their new ride or discussed getting a cracking deal on a new vehicle.
What are the Elite Club trying to achieve, exactly? Has any of them actually posted what they want to buy? I mean, from what I can see, they've spent the last year wandering into dealerships just to kick the tires. I'm surprised they haven't been charged with assault and battery on a vehicle, or hit with a restraining order for loitering around laybys, counting the cars at the dealers!
Edited by Chipper on Wednesday 22 May 08:07
Mist of us own porsches. Most of us want to own more and different porsches in the future. Most of us use finance and have limited funds. Most of us are concerned about the cost of those loans and the future values of our cars. These concerns dictate our future buying patterns. This forum is a chance to share anecdotes and facts to help us understand our choices in light of an obviously changing market.
Why is this so hard to understand? What's your point?
Take the vaccine, wear the face mask and buy the car you are told!!
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