Lots of brand new Porsches immediately available
Discussion
Wheelspinning said:
The Wookie said:
Chemical Ali said:
Exactly this. They created an icon out of a race car engine from mid 2010s, the 991.2 gt3. Its then been put into everything interesting since. Nobody seems to twig it. The variations, 992 gt3, gt4rs, St, gt3 rs are all very good motors but now dated old tech and 10 year old engine relatively speaking.
Look at, for example, mclaren artura at sub 200k is near on 700 bhp hybrid compared to a gt4rs of similar money when taking into account the porsche tax. Are they both the same value as a sports car? Yes judging by price. But as an actual machine the mclaren is light years ahead.
Porsche is a marketing company that makes cars.
You could argue that Porsche’s strategy has been knocking out 10 year old technology for about the last 50 years.Look at, for example, mclaren artura at sub 200k is near on 700 bhp hybrid compared to a gt4rs of similar money when taking into account the porsche tax. Are they both the same value as a sports car? Yes judging by price. But as an actual machine the mclaren is light years ahead.
Porsche is a marketing company that makes cars.
I think the reason why it’s always been successful is partly because of the brand but partly because the sought after models are very well sorted, usable lightweight drivers cars with enough poke for the road, rather than chasing numbers.
Artura is a good example, the extra 200bhp over my GT3 has zero appeal to me, the odd squirt might be entertaining but it won’t make as nice a noise doing it, and I know the Porsche is going to steer and handle at least as well as the McLaren because it’s a Porsche.
Then you ask yourself, what direct alternative is there to something like a GT3? High revving normally aspirated, relatively lightweight, well engineered, usable packaging. Probably only the Huracan comes close but another 50-100k, not as usable, arguably not as good to drive although has more flash appeal.
I suppose you could argue that most of the GT buyers don’t have a clue and are buying it as they would a Rolex as you suggest, but the substance is there underneath and frankly if the cars weren’t any good and people like us weren’t raving about them then I don’t think the model would work
The fallback to criticism for McLaren cars is the noise it produces, usually by people who have never owned one, and just repeat the Internet rhetoric.
Any McLaren shall match or easily beat any GT3 model on any track, and there shall never be any drama of being black flagged due to noise.
I added a 992 GTS late last summer after no Porsches for 20 years, and it was gone after 6 months as it felt like a jump back of more than a decade on every aspect; ride, steering, slow gearbox, mediocre brakes and an amazing sense of just being underwhelmed.
I was going to replace it with a 992GT3, but after a drive of that, it was so compromised for road use, my wife stated she would never drive it.
'It's a track biased car' you may say.
Well my 675LTS would run rings around it in every single aspect, and that is even more of a 'track biased' car, but it can be used for any journey, short or long with no weariness of the track biase imposed on it whatsoever.
My 650 from years ago would be as quick or quicker than a 992GT3, without any of the discomfort.
These are cars nearly decade old, that Porsche still cannot match now.
An Artura has moved the game along by 3 country miles from both of these.
The fact is that some just deem it as 'Porsche; there is no substitute' and shall have this perception forever.
As mentioned, i find the 911 as an underwhelming product, backed by the worst main dealers I have had the misfortune to experience.
I'm basing this on my ownership of both brands; I am sure others may have a different view.
In 6 years of Mclaren ownership, there have been no issues, contrary to the constant Internet chat of how unreliable they are and how expensive to run they are, all which is to the most misinformation and scares potential buyers away.
My 675LT shall be £700 to service this year, and another year of no warranty and no worries.
With my brand new 992, in the 6 months and 1900 miles of ownership, it managed to jam the spoiler in the raised position, and the PDK box had to be reprogrammed twice as it didn't really fancy going up the gears too much; all a decent time spent back at the OPC.
That's just not good enough.
The fanfare of the GT3RS, and all the gushing about it; this was made by the same people who absolutely ridiculed McLaren 7 years ago when the Senna was launched.
The RS is a parody of that car, but still cannot hold a candle to its abilities, 7 years down the line.
I don't think I will ever understand the unconscious biase against a supercrar brand manufactured here in the UK; its such a bizarre view that Italians and Germans would never conceive having about Ferrari, Lambo and Porsche.
So which McLaren is on the point for money now? regarding, price, how it drives, sounds, performance and looks? I have no experience of McLaren at all?
Augustash said:
However there is the GT4 which is a close second to me a car that is vastly vastly better than the GT3 in every way. Nobody will ever admit to any of this stuff but I defy anyone that owns a GT3 that a small party of them dies inside every time they drive it. They are a bit rubbish!
All I can say is I have a 718 GT4 and absolutely adore it and it’s definitely a keeper especially as it’s now ceased production
The fun round the country lanes with its mid engine set up, handling & size is just magical
Vastly underrated imo but each to their own
That magical turning/rolling on the middle when turning or in a bend of GT4. I love it. I agree. I suspect GT4RS with GT3 engine would be the same. However GT4RS are a bit over decorated to me and makes them less beautiful compared to the GT4. However GT4RS should give the best of both worlds: dynamics and the engine except it might be too loudAll I can say is I have a 718 GT4 and absolutely adore it and it’s definitely a keeper especially as it’s now ceased production
The fun round the country lanes with its mid engine set up, handling & size is just magical
Vastly underrated imo but each to their own
LamedonM said:
Augustash said:
However there is the GT4 which is a close second to me a car that is vastly vastly better than the GT3 in every way. Nobody will ever admit to any of this stuff but I defy anyone that owns a GT3 that a small party of them dies inside every time they drive it. They are a bit rubbish!
All I can say is I have a 718 GT4 and absolutely adore it and it’s definitely a keeper especially as it’s now ceased production
The fun round the country lanes with its mid engine set up, handling & size is just magical
Vastly underrated imo but each to their own
That magical turning/rolling on the middle when turning or in a bend of GT4. I love it. I agree. I suspect GT4RS with GT3 engine would be the same. However GT4RS are a bit over decorated to me and makes them less beautiful compared to the GT4. However GT4RS should give the best of both worlds: dynamics and the engine except it might be too loudAll I can say is I have a 718 GT4 and absolutely adore it and it’s definitely a keeper especially as it’s now ceased production
The fun round the country lanes with its mid engine set up, handling & size is just magical
Vastly underrated imo but each to their own
Another thing with modern Porsche buyers aside from the price talk is the "spec" talk which is essentially free marketing for the options list. I've observed that when owners of other brands talk about the cars they've owned, it usually along the lines of "I owned a 458 and 296 or a 675LT and Senna". But Porsche owners and not just on this forum usually say "I owned a PTS CS WP 991.2 GT3 RS and a 50th Anniversary Targa heritage edition"
Always find it quite funny how owners have to continually validate their choice of car. Fwiw, the driving experience on offer from Porsche GT cars and Mclaren are imo, very different, albeit somewhat less different since the 991 generation - one can quite reasonably prefer one over the other without needing to denigrate one as part of their justification for their current car.
PinkHouse said:
Another thing with modern Porsche buyers aside from the price talk is the "spec" talk which is essentially free marketing for the options list. I've observed that when owners of other brands talk about the cars they've owned, it usually along the lines of "I owned a 458 and 296 or a 675LT and Senna". But Porsche owners and not just on this forum usually say "I owned a PTS CS WP 991.2 GT3 RS and a 50th Anniversary Targa heritage edition"
No doubt that has something to do with the variety of models and variants of the 911 vs the others, many will say Speciale, Aperta or perhaps HGTE, Assetto Fiorano etc... if it is one but again there aren't many so you won't hear it that often most will own a normal version of the model so what else can they say. I recall LJK Setright writing about how as the brand position gets higher, owners tend to drop the model/variant when casually speaking about the car they drive, but that's not to say that fellow owners don't go into the weeds when talking about versions and specs.
maura said:
Youforreal. said:
maura said:
If they are not happy with 992.1 prices wait to see their reaction in 6 more days when 992.2 is launched!
lolEdited by Youforreal. on Monday 27th May 11:13
isaldiri said:
Always find it quite funny how owners have to continually validate their choice of car. Fwiw, the driving experience on offer from Porsche GT cars and Mclaren are imo, very different, albeit somewhat less different since the 991 generation - one can quite reasonably prefer one over the other without needing to denigrate one as part of their justification for their current car.
And can you imagine if everybody wanted to buy the same car ??As for McLaren my only experience is gearbox failure on an MP4-12c .... and the £18k quote because McLaren wouldn't allow Graziano to supply the new seal. Now resolved by a couple of good indies ... as is the PDK box ??? ... not that many of them appear to fail but ....
Youforreal. said:
maura said:
Youforreal. said:
maura said:
If they are not happy with 992.1 prices wait to see their reaction in 6 more days when 992.2 is launched!
lolEdited by Youforreal. on Monday 27th May 11:13
ChrisW. said:
Youforreal. said:
maura said:
Youforreal. said:
maura said:
If they are not happy with 992.1 prices wait to see their reaction in 6 more days when 992.2 is launched!
lolEdited by Youforreal. on Monday 27th May 11:13
I’ve a 981gt4 and a 997.2 c4s, I’ve no interest in buying or selling apart from if a nice 991.2 gt3 came up to my liking and within reason money wise.
I’ll buy when I want and when I can afford it, life’s too short and I certainly wouldn’t be trying to wait of some sort of dip in the market or waiting to the ass possibly falls out of what I’m after.
Fair play to you, you went and bought your gt3rs, no messing about, no waiting endlessly hoping that they will come down loads more, you picked your time and went for it, should it go up or down in value I’m sure your not that worried when your out in it approaching 9k and it singing.
Edited by Youforreal. on Monday 27th May 15:24
The guys endlessly wittering on about pricing to drop will never see a big enough dip to pull the trigger there's always an excuse. If you buy one at today's market rate then you've paid the right money for that day end of. They could go up or down but I'm any case you'll always be miles behind the dealer and first owner who got in cahoots to flip the car in the first place.
I was the opposite I saw the dips in the market and went for it having not really been looking but saw value for that time and pulled the trigger.
I was the opposite I saw the dips in the market and went for it having not really been looking but saw value for that time and pulled the trigger.
Sukh13 said:
Only to be matched by members endlessly complaining about discussion of prices on a discussion board 
Is funny. People get on here, a discussion board, and in a condescending tone claim the discussion is stupid and pointless. Irony anyone?Also, previous post saying maclaren porsche, saying one is better than other is denigrating. Not so. One can be better than the next, doesn't mean they not both great motors.
Wills2 said:
PinkHouse said:
Another thing with modern Porsche buyers aside from the price talk is the "spec" talk which is essentially free marketing for the options list. I've observed that when owners of other brands talk about the cars they've owned, it usually along the lines of "I owned a 458 and 296 or a 675LT and Senna". But Porsche owners and not just on this forum usually say "I owned a PTS CS WP 991.2 GT3 RS and a 50th Anniversary Targa heritage edition"
No doubt that has something to do with the variety of models and variants of the 911 vs the others, many will say Speciale, Aperta or perhaps HGTE, Assetto Fiorano etc... if it is one but again there aren't many so you won't hear it that often most will own a normal version of the model so what else can they say. I recall LJK Setright writing about how as the brand position gets higher, owners tend to drop the model/variant when casually speaking about the car they drive, but that's not to say that fellow owners don't go into the weeds when talking about versions and specs.
Meanwhile in Aston Martin or McLaren you're offered a much more generous colour palette as standard and can freely order Q special or MSO paints. But because Porsche puts there PTS and PTS+ colours behind an additional wall that costs an extra Taycan or two for an allocation, we're left with this situation
PinkHouse said:
I fully understand the need to differentiate through different variations but any owner that has a car in a PTS colour won't hesitate to mention it anytime their car is being discussed. It now akin to some sort of flex that says "I didn't just merely get a special car but they even allowed me to order it in a non-standard colour because I'm an extra special customer".
Presumably the extra special customer choosing to order their extra special pts colour is perfectly happy paying multiple £thousands more for the privilege.Freedom of choice is indeed a wonderful thing.
JonPH said:
It's interesting that cars come, go off, and then come back on-line. Sometimes now appearing only on Autotrader.
It's game playing.
Porsche are certainly entitled to play such a game, but it suggests that they didn't sell the 400 911s that disappeared from the website two months ago.
My OPC has 1 New 911 listed, when I was there last week there were 4 new 911’s lined up by the front door looking for a home. The week before it was Cayenne’s.It's game playing.
Porsche are certainly entitled to play such a game, but it suggests that they didn't sell the 400 911s that disappeared from the website two months ago.
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