New breed of GT3 owner
Discussion
RSVP911 said:
Patent said:
Please answer me this - why on earth did you sell it then?
And - what are you using for a daily now thats better than that!?
Because I have a 991 RS due very soon - if this wasn't the case i'd still be piling the miles on my 3 - I loved that car it was awesome : simple as that . I am really enjoying the gap though , as I am getting to drive a piece of air cooled analogue loveliness - I hope that this is all ok with you as your post seemed to insinuate that I was a hypocrite for selling the 3 - or perhaps I'm being to sensitive - as I say PH isn't as much fun as it was ? And - what are you using for a daily now thats better than that!?
A little too sensitive maybe....Its only a question Richard - based on what you said in your post. I don't think you a hypocrite. And you used it daily...Have you seen how many are being sold with barely any miles on the clock!
Patent said:
I just thought it strange that you referred to it in such glowing terms knowing you had sold it! I don't think of the RS as a replacement for the GT3, certainly for daily use, or is that your intention?
A little too sensitive maybe....Its only a question Richard - based on what you said in your post. I don't think you a hypocrite. And you used it daily...Have you seen how many are being sold with barely any miles on the clock!
Ok , sorry .A little too sensitive maybe....Its only a question Richard - based on what you said in your post. I don't think you a hypocrite. And you used it daily...Have you seen how many are being sold with barely any miles on the clock!
I'm not sure if I'm being honest , in truth I really agonised over selling the 3 as I agree it will probably be a much better daily than the RS and also , I think it is a better looking car ( I think the RS from an aesthetic (not technical) design POV is overly fussy ) and one that I could just about get away with at work - the RS will be more of a struggle in this regard - however , it's an RS and as such I am chuffed to bits that I'm lucky enough to get one and I think I'll worry about the practicalities later. Technically I think it's going to be quite a machine - not to everyone's liking for the reasons discussed on this thread earlier , but I have to say I'm very excited and as with the 3 - there will be not flipping from me - It's a car not an invesent.
Edited by RSVP911 on Thursday 20th August 23:19
Edited by RSVP911 on Friday 21st August 08:34
Just to clarify........the PDK S in the 991 GT3 WILL clearly change down automatically when in manual mode for example when left in 7th gear and coming to a stop. It will NOT change down automatically when in manual mode e.g mid corner or e.g flooring the throttle and in this regard is one of the many aspects which differentiates it from 'normal' more intrusive and therefore less involving PDK .
jh001ace said:
Why oh why do all GT3 posts seem to turn into a bun fight, the original post was not supposed to wind anyone up, I personally just don't see the logic of a technically advance car like the 991 GT3 with a manual box... Just my view.. Not saying I'm right.
Could a Typhoon be piloted by control lines or simple hydraulics?? No, it's just progress, if you want analogue control lines go jump in a Spitfire if you are lucky enough to own one.
You are spot on OP. There are some people that every time Porsche do something new or different they are up in arms...when the 964 had power assisted steering all the purists before saying it will lose its 'steering feel' etc etc. I happen to think that there isn't all of a sudden a'new breed' of GT3 owner. The GT3 has always had a queue of drivers and enthusiasts waiting for the latest model and whilst I accept that the prices were probably helped on the 991 GT3 by speculators too, it has clearly kept a premium due to it being as good as it is - and I come from the camp of someone who has never actually driven a 991 GT3 but would love to.I have a 997 GTS which is PDK and I love it its fun and involving and from having numerous manual 911's I love the car just as much and I can honestly say I have not left the box in 'auto' once.Could a Typhoon be piloted by control lines or simple hydraulics?? No, it's just progress, if you want analogue control lines go jump in a Spitfire if you are lucky enough to own one.
Sit back and enjoy one of the best cars out there - thats in some way the beauty of the 911 - there is something for everyone old and new.
isaldiri said:
Because the driver aids and various electronic systems are of a completely different order of magnitude in the 991 gt3 compared to the 997 gt3. Surely that has to be obvious to anyone?
Is that in itself a bad thing though? The driver aids and electronics on the 997 were probably more advanced than the 996 and in turn the 996 to the 993 to the 964 to the 2.7 RS...in a few years the 991 GT3 will be seen probably as a far more purer drivers car than the the 994 GT3 or whatever it will be.Alpinestars said:
You're right, it is progress. But progress does not equal an engaging car. How far does progress have to go for people to acknowledge this? What about a car that drives itself? No doubt it would piss all over any human intervention, but I suspect it would be as boring as hell.
Out of interest, do you track cars a lot?berty37 said:
Is that in itself a bad thing though? The driver aids and electronics on the 997 were probably more advanced than the 996 and in turn the 996 to the 993 to the 964 to the 2.7 RS...in a few years the 991 GT3 will be seen probably as a far more purer drivers car than the the 994 GT3 or whatever it will be.
It is possibly a bad thing depending where one stands I guess. For me the line is drawn quite sharply at the 997 gt3s which can realistically still be described as analogue/pure drivers' cars. plenty of people however think the 6 gt3 is where that line stands but others as well have no problem with the current gen of car.. Cars like the 991 gt3 are realistically a step too far in the car electronics road for me to consider a true driver's car and I say that despite having a very heavily electronics dependent car myself which I do enjoy driving rather a lot for it's sheer breadth of ability but I absolutely do not kid myself it's necessarily the most pure or focused driving experienceberty37 said:
You are spot on OP. There are some people that every time Porsche do something new or different they are up in arms...when the 964 had power assisted steering all the purists before saying it will lose its 'steering feel' etc etc. I happen to think that there isn't all of a sudden a'new breed' of GT3 owner. The GT3 has always had a queue of drivers and enthusiasts waiting for the latest model and whilst I accept that the prices were probably helped on the 991 GT3 by speculators too, it has clearly kept a premium due to it being as good as it is - and I come from the camp of someone who has never actually driven a 991 GT3 but would love to.I have a 997 GTS which is PDK and I love it its fun and involving and from having numerous manual 911's I love the car just as much and I can honestly say I have not left the box in 'auto' once.
Sit back and enjoy one of the best cars out there - thats in some way the beauty of the 911 - there is something for everyone old and new.
Good post and one that recognises 'progress' is inevitable and in most cases, although not all, it is for the best as each generation of GT3 morphs into the next. There are some that are already saying the 991.2 will inevitably be 'better' than the present model. Possibly it will. Shiny baubles.Sit back and enjoy one of the best cars out there - thats in some way the beauty of the 911 - there is something for everyone old and new.
Good choice on the 997 GTS btw. If ever a latter day 911 combined that perfect blend of old school part analogue 911 with modern everyday usability and driver involvement this is it.......
jh001ace said:
Why oh why do all GT3 posts seem to turn into a bun fight, the original post was not supposed to wind anyone up, I personally just don't see the logic of a technically advance car like the 991 GT3 with a manual box... Just my view.. Not saying I'm right.
Could a Typhoon be piloted by control lines or simple hydraulics?? No, it's just progress, if you want analogue control lines go jump in a Spitfire if you are lucky enough to own one.
Apologies Jerry, I thought your post was an honest and fair judgement of the vehicle and lot of new 911 or GT3 owners, like yourself, will welcome the technology and think it fits just right. I think it does too! Prob like many others I've decided to step of the tech train, as I'm not trying to go fast..(..er than anyone else) but want to spend the rest of my driving days hunting for my holy grail, 'the perfect downshift'. I may never find it. I may (will) be swallowed up my 991 GT3s on the way, but I'll be too busy controlling all 4 limbs to notice : )Could a Typhoon be piloted by control lines or simple hydraulics?? No, it's just progress, if you want analogue control lines go jump in a Spitfire if you are lucky enough to own one.
Not that you need, nor indeed asked for any advice - but a PCGB track day could be just what you want if you were to go tracking. Great atmosphere and like minded people. very little to worry about.
Hope to see you about.
Pete
anonymous said:
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Thats a fair post moose and I guess it boils down to horses for courses. There are just people that will blanket not accept anything modern and tech that goes into making these new cars. For me, the GT3 has always been Porsche's track orientated 911 - its still a road car but AP and his team have got hold of the 911 and had a good tweak here and there. On the one hand people say Porsche have to listen to their customers - it seemed to me that they did and its why the PDK was rolled out all over the place. You cant just attribute all 911 buyers as well to do City boys, the 911 transcends that and always has. The 997 turbo I had I loved was a short shift manual. Now I hated the tip box but I also accepted that as far as the turbo goes the tip wasnt as bad as it was on the standard cooking cars. The PDK on the gen2 I think i remember was ordered over 80% vs manual and not available as manual at all on the turbo S and subsequently on no 991 turbos either.Take the new little hot rod or in the moment car the GT4...Porsche have apparently given customers what they want only for people to complain about the long gearing etc..also I was told that on Sports setting the engine 'rev matches' too?
It seems to me that every time a 911 'moves on' people say it loses something which is something I actually disagree with - there is no doubt in my mind that seeing the 991 GT3 on a track and in all the vids it clearly does what a GT3 should do. I havent spent much time on McLaren, Ferrari and Lambo threads but I am not sure I get the same sort of feeling they seem to be disillusioned with the way their cars have moved forward with the times that so many 911 fans seem to be? Ferraris are now way more usable and electronic than ever before.
I found Isaldiri's post rather interesting in my own way...I think which I am sure he will correct me soon enough, he has an MP4 or a 650 - 2 great cars I am lucky enough to have a drive of that I think simply would not work with a manual box and without electronics would be all over the shop. Am I correct in thinking that most of your driving you do would be on the road rather than a track? point being if you have the opportunity to buy a car that for most of your driving is probably around urban roads etc, why did you not go for the more purist/analogue type of drive as you put it?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
sorry was unclear I was asking Isaldiri - was trying to make the point that I would imagine for most of the driving he does, why not go for something more purist and analogue rather than an MP4 which in terms of electric aids and paddle box etc is well up there with the GT3 in tech terms.I guess we'll agree to disagree on this one - pressing down a pedal and moving a stick as opposed to pulling a lever is just a physical motion to me and to do it is hardly difficult.
Like watching an old black and white TV and getting up and changing channels by flicking a little switch to 1 of 4 channels. you may have 'lost' walking over and changing the channel every time but the end result - watching something that you want to is the same....
Some people dont like the fact I guess manufacturers have made driving cars faster - easier. To me that does not automatically make it less involving or fun.
berty37 said:
.. has an MP4 or a 650 - 2 great cars I am lucky enough to have a drive of that I think simply would not work with a manual box and without electronics would be all over the shop. Am I correct in thinking that most of your driving you do would be on the road rather than a track? point being if you have the opportunity to buy a car that for most of your driving is probably around urban roads etc, why did you not go for the more purist/analogue type of drive as you put it?
Yep I do have a 12c. That's a good question though I admit and raises a very valid point indeed. The simple answer I suppose is that I am very lucky in being able to have more than one silly car at the moment so I am able to cover both types. If you then ask however if I could keep only one, I have to admit that might be a bit of a struggle but thinking back all the way to 2010 had I gotten the gen 2 7gt3 and kept it rather than foolishly cave into the temptation to chop and change cars around, I honestly could not say for sure I would have had any more fun but I can certainly say I'd have saved myself a ton of cash.....P.S urban roads as in....city driving/posing? Have to admit out of the 20+k miles on the 12c I doubt if even 1% has been spent in the any city other than cutting through london to get to brands or the channel tunnel!
ta for reply. Mate end of the day its not all about cash....you seem to love the 12C and have a good blast in it that is priceless.Having a car that you totally love and you either end up at flat or actually making a bit of money is just a bonus.
My mate sold his 997.2 GT3 as a Porsche anarok that I am - it was one of the best GT3's I have ever seen and driven a black CS with PCCB's. He went onto an MP4 and now a 650S.
My mate sold his 997.2 GT3 as a Porsche anarok that I am - it was one of the best GT3's I have ever seen and driven a black CS with PCCB's. He went onto an MP4 and now a 650S.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
errr hang on I didn't even mention heel/toe rev matching etc etc I was talking about the physical motion of changing gear using a 3rd pedal and a stick thats all. I hate to tell you thats what most people do when they learn to drive cars. If you have perfected rev matching anytime, anywhere, any gear...well done give yourself a biscuit.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
No it's the whole of your point. If the general involvement and fun of driving is just about giving yourself a pat on the back as you have rev matched your downshift approaching a roundabout while the AA learner hasn't then you are missing what else that makes a car fun and engaging...If it were all down to the 991 GT3 being too technical and computerized they'd be in the same price bracket as a Nissan GTR.Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff