Lightweight GT3RS
Discussion
lsb said:
You both need to let go of each others hands and read my posts a little closer, never mentioned owned, i believe.
Ah you just like to give the impression you own them. Top man!
p.s. Has it occured to you that Justin & I aren't holding hands, and that there is another reason people are responding to you so positively?
clubsport said:
DanH said,
haha I like your egotistical comment, having read your messages here and those on the Noble forum, where you just called someone a 'twat' and dropped all the cars you've owned into the conversation, I've certainly realised who the egotistical tt is. Your personal attacks just make you look a wanker.
Glad you went back and edited it Dan, such abuse just seemed pointless in what was a decent thread
haha I like your egotistical comment, having read your messages here and those on the Noble forum, where you just called someone a 'twat' and dropped all the cars you've owned into the conversation, I've certainly realised who the egotistical tt is. Your personal attacks just make you look a wanker.
Glad you went back and edited it Dan, such abuse just seemed pointless in what was a decent thread
Who is the gent now Dan ???
It took you two hours to reply and then you needed a friend to help you out, if you were not both soooo defensive and read closely you would see i went to great lengths to not say " owned " until it was brought up. I answered the question which was - have you driven a performance car ??
At least have the balls to stick by what you say, and not have to be embarrassed by someone catching you out and posting your original script !!!
Well played Clubsport.
Edited by lsb on Monday 31st July 22:27
DanH said:
lsb said:
You both need to let go of each others hands and read my posts a little closer, never mentioned owned, i believe.
Ah you just like to give the impression you own them. Top man!
p.s. Has it occured to you that Justin & I aren't holding hands, and that there is another reason people are responding to you so positively?
Well i only know him as joust so obviously you know " Justin " far better than i !!!
lsb said:
clubsport said:
DanH said,
haha I like your egotistical comment, having read your messages here and those on the Noble forum, where you just called someone a 'twat' and dropped all the cars you've owned into the conversation, I've certainly realised who the egotistical tt is. Your personal attacks just make you look a wanker.
Glad you went back and edited it Dan, such abuse just seemed pointless in what was a decent thread
haha I like your egotistical comment, having read your messages here and those on the Noble forum, where you just called someone a 'twat' and dropped all the cars you've owned into the conversation, I've certainly realised who the egotistical tt is. Your personal attacks just make you look a wanker.
Glad you went back and edited it Dan, such abuse just seemed pointless in what was a decent thread
Who is the gent now Dan ???
It took you two hours to reply and then you needed a friend to help you out, if you were not both soooo defensive and read closely you would see i went to great lengths to not say " owned " until it was brought up. I answered the question which was - have you driven a performance car ??
At least have the balls to stick by what you say, and not have to be embarrassed by someone catching you out and posting your original script !!!
Well played Clubsport.
Edited by lsb on Monday 31st July 22:27
lol I'm not embarassed and I stand by my comment. I think your personal attacks make you look a wanker, although I'm sure it's just a false impression
. I had however decided not to further inflame this delightful exchange hence the withdrawl of my comment. Anyway I look forward to hearing about Steve's progress. I hope he doesn't feel obliged to bail out and buy a Caterham instead, now that the great sage has spoken.
Even I'm getting bored of this, and I've got a terrible weakness for getting drawn into tedious internet arguments. Enjoy your Caterham, Lambo and GT3. All great cars.
Edited by DanH on Monday 31st July 23:29
DanH said:
lsb said:
Um, the great sage, that one might come back to haunt you.
The next time you are enlightening us with your rs knowledge ....
The next time you are enlightening us with your rs knowledge ....
Edited by lsb on Monday 31st July 22:58
Come back to haunt me? You haven't gone away yet
Afraid not. Always waiting for your next words of wisdom, as well as waiting for you to have the last word !!!!!! ( again )
lsb said:
superlightr said:
buy a Caterham 7, cover over the badge with a Porsche one. Hey presto!
Exactly, why bother ?? If you want to save money on consumables buy the lightest/fastest car in the first place, something designed for purpose. A lightweight 250 bhp, sequential boxed, sticky booted, roll caged caterham, atom, etc.
I am not knocking Steve for doing it, as it will not cost him any money, but why a paying punter would want to do this i do not know. When push comes to shove a good track car will always be far quicker on track than a fantastic road car because it was designed for its use from the get go and is less compromised.
Road cars cost a lot to trackday full stop. To me it makes more sense to have a focussed track car, it should be faster as well as cheaper. With the money you save buy a comfortable road car ( now with the roads being so congested speed is almost impossible to obtain for any distance/time )and cruise to the track where you can let it all hang out !!
Edited by pugsey on Tuesday 1st August 09:43
clubsport said:
I think the point being made is fair...by getting an cup car through an SVA test then there is no need for a trailer to move the car around, ultimately it is all a degree of compromise as to what level of road/track bias an owner is happy to accept. car! 
I understand that making alterations to a car is fun and each to their own. My point is basically ( as stated above ) why not work from the other direction if weight saving is the main priority ?? Make a cup car road legal instead of making an rs as close to a cup car as possible ?? I honestly don't understand why this not discussed as well. I have not and never have had a problem with improvement, i believe it's called evolution.
Edited by lsb on Tuesday 1st August 10:07
lsb said:
clubsport said:
I think the point being made is fair...by getting an cup car through an SVA test then there is no need for a trailer to move the car around, ultimately it is all a degree of compromise as to what level of road/track bias an owner is happy to accept. car!
I understand that making alterations to a car is fun and each to their own. My point is basically ( as stated above ) why not work from the other direction if weight saving is the main priority ?? Make a cup car road legal instead of making an rs as close to a cup car as possible ?? I honestly don't understand why this not discussed as well. I have not and never have had a problem with improvement, i believe it's called evolution.
Edited by lsb on Tuesday 1st August 10:07
Edited by pugsey on Tuesday 1st August 11:12
lsb said:
clubsport said:
DanH said,
haha I like your egotistical comment, having read your messages here and those on the Noble forum, where you just called someone a 'twat' and dropped all the cars you've owned into the conversation, I've certainly realised who the egotistical tt is. Your personal attacks just make you look a wanker.
Glad you went back and edited it Dan, such abuse just seemed pointless in what was a decent thread
haha I like your egotistical comment, having read your messages here and those on the Noble forum, where you just called someone a 'twat' and dropped all the cars you've owned into the conversation, I've certainly realised who the egotistical tt is. Your personal attacks just make you look a wanker.
Glad you went back and edited it Dan, such abuse just seemed pointless in what was a decent thread
Who is the gent now Dan ???
It took you two hours to reply and then you needed a friend to help you out, if you were not both soooo defensive and read closely you would see i went to great lengths to not say " owned " until it was brought up. I answered the question which was - have you driven a performance car ??
At least have the balls to stick by what you say, and not have to be embarrassed by someone catching you out and posting your original script !!!
Well played Clubsport.
Edited by lsb on Monday 31st July 22:27
I am starting to wonder if is time for MWHM to re-enter the fray...seems like my kind of thread...
Depends on what you want out of a track day.
Certainly never trailered a 7 to a track day, never wanted to make it lighter or faster. just wanted a fun, responsive, fast cornering and great handling car + price . The fact that nothing but other 7's or track types came close is a bonus but not the reason for getting a 7. After all its not a race, but fun you are after. (although its nice to be one of the faster cars on track)
It would be fun making the best out of any car, heck ive even been round tracks in standard M5/Saab/996 targa/996tt to test how they feel.
But I cant see much more being lost on a rs to make much of a difference. Clearly tyres are one key factor, weight/power another but with the driver being the most important. You are down to the dimminishing returns equations of cost/speed but with the gt3rs you are already parred down almost to the bone. I think the expenditure -v- the returns will be high and minimal.
Be interested for updates on how you get on. good luck.
Certainly never trailered a 7 to a track day, never wanted to make it lighter or faster. just wanted a fun, responsive, fast cornering and great handling car + price . The fact that nothing but other 7's or track types came close is a bonus but not the reason for getting a 7. After all its not a race, but fun you are after. (although its nice to be one of the faster cars on track)
It would be fun making the best out of any car, heck ive even been round tracks in standard M5/Saab/996 targa/996tt to test how they feel.
But I cant see much more being lost on a rs to make much of a difference. Clearly tyres are one key factor, weight/power another but with the driver being the most important. You are down to the dimminishing returns equations of cost/speed but with the gt3rs you are already parred down almost to the bone. I think the expenditure -v- the returns will be high and minimal.
Be interested for updates on how you get on. good luck.
Edited by superlightr on Tuesday 1st August 12:57
Ha ha.. I can't leave you lot alone for 5 minutes can I!
A cup car will probably suffer more abuse in one race than a track day car would suffer in years. Cup cars are great but second hand ones are generally well used and bloody expensive and impractical to run. They burn clutches easily and break gearboxes with unfortunante regularity. Running a cup car is not really a viable alternative unless it is brand new and they are not cheap...
A cup car will probably suffer more abuse in one race than a track day car would suffer in years. Cup cars are great but second hand ones are generally well used and bloody expensive and impractical to run. They burn clutches easily and break gearboxes with unfortunante regularity. Running a cup car is not really a viable alternative unless it is brand new and they are not cheap...
steve rance said:
A cup car will probably suffer more abuse in one race than a track day car would suffer in years. Cup cars are great but second hand ones are generally well used and bloody expensive and impractical to run. They burn clutches easily and break gearboxes with unfortunante regularity. Running a cup car is not really a viable alternative unless it is brand new and they are not cheap...
2nd hand Cup cars seem reasonably priced, IMHO. It might seem reasonable to suggest that prices will drop as more are available due to people moving to 997 Cup's.
They are only impractical as they cannot be run on the road (without conversion).
I don't agree that they burn clutches, unless the user is a clutz.
Gearboxes are very solid in my experience.
Track day use of a Cup car would be a fraction of what they get when racing and so the ongoing maintanance costs should not be particularly high. Running any car regularly on track is never going to be cheap - even is you just look at tyres and brakes costs
Joe911 said:
steve rance said:
A cup car will probably suffer more abuse in one race than a track day car would suffer in years. Cup cars are great but second hand ones are generally well used and bloody expensive and impractical to run. They burn clutches easily and break gearboxes with unfortunante regularity. Running a cup car is not really a viable alternative unless it is brand new and they are not cheap...
2nd hand Cup cars seem reasonably priced, IMHO. It might seem reasonable to suggest that prices will drop as more are available due to people moving to 997 Cup's.
They are only impractical as they cannot be run on the road (without conversion).
I don't agree that they burn clutches, unless the user is a clutz.
Gearboxes are very solid in my experience.
Track day use of a Cup car would be a fraction of what they get when racing and so the ongoing maintanance costs should not be particularly high. Running any car regularly on track is never going to be cheap - even is you just look at tyres and brakes costs
I know of at least one front running cup driver that burnt out 3 clutches in his first test. He's not a clutz but I hear what you say. Running an ex racing car as a track car is fraught with problems because these cars have had such a hard life. Track day use is a walk in the park by comparison and if they go wrong it aint cheap. You cant get finance on one and there is no warranty on the engine, gearbox or anything else. On that basis 35 - 50 grand is just too much of a risk as far as I am concerned.
steve rance said:
Running an ex racing car as a track car is fraught with problems because these cars have had such a hard life. Track day use is a walk in the park by comparison
why? forgeting race cars making contact for a second the only thing i can think of that trackday cars dont do is standing starts. but they do lap for about 8 times as long in 1 day as your average race.
steve rance said:
I know of at least one front running cup driver that burnt out 3 clutches in his first test. He's not a clutz but I hear what you say.
Were the clutches burnt, or buzzed (over-reved)?
Either way - it doesn't seem like the man at the controls could have been blameless. But, of course, I don't know the circumstances.
Cup cars get run in the Ring 24 hours - no need for new clutches, even the pads and disks can last the race!
It is true that pulling away from stationary is difficult without burning the clutch, which isn't ideal, but they stand up to it well.
steve rance said:
Running an ex racing car as a track car is fraught with problems because these cars have had such a hard life. Track day use is a walk in the park by comparison and if they go wrong it aint cheap. You cant get finance on one and there is no warranty on the engine, gearbox or anything else. On that basis 35 - 50 grand is just too much of a risk as far as I am concerned.
For sure - you'd want to buy a car that had just had a complete rebuild - and those are going to be more expensive.
Running racing cars has never a cheap thing to do - but then buying a GT3RS and stripping it out and doing carbon doors and wings etc etc isn't going to be cheap either.
Anyway - best of luck with your project - be nice to see the result.
francisb said:
steve rance said:
Running an ex racing car as a track car is fraught with problems because these cars have had such a hard life. Track day use is a walk in the park by comparison
why? forgeting race cars making contact for a second the only thing i can think of that trackday cars dont do is standing starts. but they do lap for about 8 times as long in 1 day as your average race.
Get a cup car that is say, 5 races old (thats about 5 - 8 hours running with testing) and get a rev range two print out. you will be amazed how long the engine has spent in rev range two through snatched or missed gear changes. Then check for panel damage on and under the car. You will probably find that many panels have been replaced through contact, the under side of the car is dented though high speed spins on the grass. Factor that over two seasons and - even if the car has been maintained at no expense (which it probably hasnt) - you may have a very tired car.
Motor racing is so much different to track day driving. The Parr car has done 100's of laps of testing but only has about 2 seconds of rev range 2. If it had been racing, it would be about 2 minutes of reve range 2. Its pretty easy testing a car when you are not fighting for track space. Factor in 20 other cars around you only inches apart and even the most experienced of racing drivers tense up a little, make more mistakes and are harder on controls.
I had a long conversation with Paul Robe about this recently. Racing put so much more stress on all of the components of a car.
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