Lightweight GT3RS
Discussion
steve rance said:
francisb said:
steve rance said:
Running an ex racing car as a track car is fraught with problems because these cars have had such a hard life. Track day use is a walk in the park by comparison
why? forgeting race cars making contact for a second the only thing i can think of that trackday cars dont do is standing starts. but they do lap for about 8 times as long in 1 day as your average race.
Get a cup car that is say, 5 races old (thats about 5 - 8 hours running with testing) and get a rev range two print out. you will be amazed how long the engine has spent in rev range two through snatched or missed gear changes. Then check for panel damage on and under the car. You will probably find that many panels have been replaced through contact, the under side of the car is dented though high speed spins on the grass. Factor that over two seasons and - even if the car has been maintained at no expense (which it probably hasnt) - you may have a very tired car.
Motor racing is so much different to track day driving. The Parr car has done 100's of laps of testing but only has about 2 seconds of rev range 2. If it had been racing, it would be about 2 minutes of reve range 2. Its pretty easy testing a car when you are not fighting for track space. Factor in 20 other cars around you only inches apart and even the most experienced of racing drivers tense up a little, make more mistakes and are harder on controls.
I had a long conversation with Paul Robe about this recently. Racing put so much more stress on all of the components of a car.
Edited by pugsey on Wednesday 2nd August 17:11
steve rance said:
Factor in 20 other cars around you only inches apart and even the most experienced of racing drivers tense up a little, make more mistakes and are harder on controls.
so its really the added stress of racing on the driver, which in turn causes more mistakes and less mechanical sympathy, which makes sense. i dont *think* i'd drive differently in a race but i guess the "inches apart" thing would turn even the most docile into a red mist crazed loony
pugsey said:
Mind you I suppose this does mean that a well maintained race car will prob. have a lot of new bits on it!
And lots of other bits on their way out
Never having raced I'm always surprised at the number of times racers apparently buzz engines, but it seems it's very common.
DanH said:
pugsey said:
Mind you I suppose this does mean that a well maintained race car will prob. have a lot of new bits on it!
And lots of other bits on their way out
Never having raced I'm always surprised at the number of times racers apparently buzz engines, but it seems it's very common.
pugsey said:
DanH said:
pugsey said:
Mind you I suppose this does mean that a well maintained race car will prob. have a lot of new bits on it!
And lots of other bits on their way out
Never having raced I'm always surprised at the number of times racers apparently buzz engines, but it seems it's very common.
Perhaps the 997 cups with sequential boxes will be a safer bet then? Still going to have lived hard though I imagine.
AndrewD said:
pugsey said:
I own and race a Radical
Out of interest to place fellow PHers, which one and what series Pugsey?
Andrew (SR3, in Enduros last year, in Clio Cup this year!)
DanH said:
pugsey said:
DanH said:
pugsey said:
Mind you I suppose this does mean that a well maintained race car will prob. have a lot of new bits on it!
And lots of other bits on their way out
Never having raced I'm always surprised at the number of times racers apparently buzz engines, but it seems it's very common.
Perhaps the 997 cups with sequential boxes will be a safer bet then? Still going to have lived hard though I imagine.
pugsey said:
DanH said:
Perhaps the 997 cups with sequential boxes will be a safer bet then? Still going to have lived hard though I imagine.
Surely that imply an absence of rev limiter?
DanH said:
pugsey said:
DanH said:
Perhaps the 997 cups with sequential boxes will be a safer bet then? Still going to have lived hard though I imagine.
Surely that imply an absence of rev limiter?
pugsey said:
DanH said:
pugsey said:
DanH said:
Perhaps the 997 cups with sequential boxes will be a safer bet then? Still going to have lived hard though I imagine.
Surely that imply an absence of rev limiter?
Cup engines normally get buzzed and damaged not by late upshifts (as there is a limiter), but by downshifting too early or into a lower gear than was intended. It is not difficult to shift from 5th to 4th when meaning to go 5th to 6th (though of course the instances of this can be dramatically reduced by applying even a small amount of care, something "real" racers often don't bother with) - this buzzes the engine and oftens ruins the clutch (less than 10K rpm) and sometimes the engine too (over 10K rpm)!
DanH said:
I always got the impression Clios racing was very physical with lots of young upstarts not having to pay for their own hardware? eek!
Its quite physical, as in 3 abreast into corners, banging doors and nudging, often some kind of carnage on the first lap - you can always guarantee the best way into turn 1 is to stay on the inside and make up places as the lunatic late brakers pile straight on into each other. But keep your nose clean and you get some great scraps! Last race I fought from a rubbish P26 on the grid to finish 15th which chuffed me to bits.
pugsey said:
Andrew (SR3, in Enduros last year, in Clio Cup this year!)
Last year we had (I share the car) a white/yellow Prosport and regularly upset a few SR3s in the Radical enduros. Upgraded to SR3 and only been out a few times this year. May change to something a bit more 'fun' next year. Clios sound good![/quote] Hi Pugsey, will look out for you! Might do a guest drive in the Matador challenge this year if everything works out...
AndrewD said:
DanH said:
I always got the impression Clios racing was very physical with lots of young upstarts not having to pay for their own hardware? eek!
Its quite physical, as in 3 abreast into corners, banging doors and nudging, often some kind of carnage on the first lap - you can always guarantee the best way into turn 1 is to stay on the inside and make up places as the lunatic late brakers pile straight on into each other. But keep your nose clean and you get some great scraps! Last race I fought from a rubbish P26 on the grid to finish 15th which chuffed me to bits.
Andrew - can I be cheeky and ask what sort of budget you are expecting to run to for the season? Also, are you running with a team or privately? As per one of my other threads, I used to race karts with Paul Rivett years ago and was talking to him at Brands earlier this year. He was talking figures of £50k + VAT + accident damage for a season & having seen the way the top guys batter each other around, I suspect £100k+ is easily done....
Steve
Hi Steve
I'm racing in the series in Hungary which is way cheaper than 100k!! More like 2-3k per race with light damage. And importantly, very very competitive (eg. previous UK Clio Cup front runnners have guested over here and not even been in top 5).
The downside is we're racing mostly at Hungaroring but Brno is coming up, and next year we may go further afield. For a new guy like me, Hungaroring is technical and plenty of overtaking opportunities for hot hatch tin tops, so it is a good compromise.
I'm with a team, they have a spare car so if anybody is interested drop me a line through my profile.
Andrew
I'm racing in the series in Hungary which is way cheaper than 100k!! More like 2-3k per race with light damage. And importantly, very very competitive (eg. previous UK Clio Cup front runnners have guested over here and not even been in top 5).
The downside is we're racing mostly at Hungaroring but Brno is coming up, and next year we may go further afield. For a new guy like me, Hungaroring is technical and plenty of overtaking opportunities for hot hatch tin tops, so it is a good compromise.
I'm with a team, they have a spare car so if anybody is interested drop me a line through my profile.
Andrew
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