Lots of brand new Porsches immediately available

[fridaypassion]

Porsche is a the very worst brand for endless endless wittering on about prices. Some of the forums most critically boring people live off of this price talk spec talk new model that they will never buy talk.

Porsche has managed to create a Rolex effect brand. The cars are of a good standard but they are not the best or certainly not the sports stuff. I actually think in the market their SUVs are the best not their sports cars. Creating fake demand from fake lack of supply is genius and it's exactly what Rolex have done. In the old days when the retail prices were lower this was great for the people that got to buy them at list but that mask has slipped now and the cars need to stay on their own merits. Porsche are now fully moving towards being a mass market brand they are no longer a niche premium manufacturer. When you buy one today pretty well any car they sell will depreciate. Can we just accept that and move on? Definitely not

[Guyr]

A Dakar just sold for £176k+fees on CC. This surprised me as that must be below list with the options cost added and independent dealers are normally all over CC.

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2023-porsche-9...

[TheDeadPrussian]

Guyr said:

A Dakar just sold for £176k+fees on CC. This surprised me as that must be below list with the options cost added and independent dealers are normally all over CC.

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2023-porsche-9...

List is £173,000, so two or three options and you are easily under list at £176 (plus the £6k fees) - agreed a surprising price given OPC prices.

[Geoffcapes]

Sidsw said:

Geoffcapes said:

Was at an OPC yesterday and spoke to them about a GT3 they had and noticed that there were a huge number of cars in their car park, albeit mostly used.

I said "are cars not selling then?" his response was, "we're definitely selling similar numbers of cars as last year, the issue we have is with the number of cancelled orders. Probably down to interest rates".
"Used cars are selling well. New ones are probably down a bit, but the cars are definitely going".

I did enquire why there are cars on AT that aren't on the Porsche Site, he said "we put them on AT, Head Office uploads to the Porsche site".

The sales guy was only a young fella so probably not as cynical or guarded as the older sales personnel you would come across.

I did notice they didn't have many Taycans though.

all sales persons are told what to say to potential customers.

cars are selling, but nowhere near the number of the past few years. new car sales have fallen off a cliff.

older car prices have stabilized to a degree. people who would have bought new/newer cars are now looking at buying older cars and this is the reason opc's are looking for stock. they need to be selling something to keep turnover up.

as for cars suddenly disappering from porsche finder, this is due to a porsche directive, telling opc's they are no longer allowed to advertise cars in transtit and they are each limited to advertising around new 7 cars at any one time, to try to make it look like there is a limited amount of stock available.

they have not been restricted from advertising on other platforms as of yet, hence the reason you can still see cars advertised on autotrader that are not on porsche finder.

not sure how they expect to sell cars if they are not advertising them. the days of people just wondering into showrooms and buying cars on a whim are well and truly over. today sales are driven by the web and the more exposure your stock has the better your chances of selling it!

At the start of our conversation I did say to the sales guy that I wouldn't be buying 'at the moment', so he never gave me the hard sell. The reason for wanting to look at a GT3 was so I knew I could fit. (I'm 19 stone and 6ft 3" with what most would call a rugby player build).

Unfortunately the buckets wouldn't work for me purely because of back pain from a car accident. So the 18 way adjustables it is!

[Wills2]

Guyr said:

A Dakar just sold for £176k+fees on CC. This surprised me as that must be below list with the options cost added and independent dealers are normally all over CC.

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2023-porsche-9...

One sold last June for £253,000 inc fees that's quite the correction.

[politeperson]

I am so please that Dakar sold for £176k. It means I might get one! I think they are very desirable.

The other option I was contemplating was a 296 GTB. They seem to be around for £220k now. To mind mind the only modern car I have ever seen that is about as pretty as a Muira.

I know I will get bitten with a Ferrari though. It has happened before.

I already own a 992 C2 which now has 60,000 miles. Would a Dakar be too similar? That C2 is fantastic in the real world and is the one car to keep as my daily forever, I love it. Best car I have ever owned.

First world problems.

[Freakuk]

politeperson said:

I am so please that Dakar sold for £176k. It means I might get one! I think they are very desirable.

The other option I was contemplating was a 296 GTB. They seem to be around for £220k now. To mind mind the only modern car I have ever seen that is about as pretty as a Muira.

I know I will get bitten with a Ferrari though. It has happened before.

I already own a 992 C2 which now has 60,000 miles. Would a Dakar be too similar? That C2 is fantastic in the real world and is the one car to keep as my daily forever, I love it. Best car I have ever owned.

First world problems.

I know someone who had a Dakar, he said it was quite wallowy at speed and swapping tyres made a big difference. I guess it's also based on a GTS with 4WD so it would be different, how different I don't know.

He moved it on and jumped into a 992GT3 Touring.

[Guyr]

TheDeadPrussian said:

List is £173,000, so two or three options and you are easily under list at £176 (plus the £6k fees) - agreed a surprising price given OPC prices.

It's actually got quite a few options, the stickers alone are £3.4k, interior trim with contrast £2.5k, carbon mirrors £1k, extended race-tex £1k+ etc.

The full spec in the configurator (assuming I've got it correct) comes to £182.5k, so the car is definitely just very slightly under list. (Check at: Porsche Code PR4T5582)

[ChrisW.]

It's not the first Dakar to sell on CC at close to list.

There is also the first registration charge to add to the new cost.

Are dealer Dakar's selling ? It is not a GT car ... and off road it would be very easy to miscalculate and "rip the floor out" ... a warranty claim ?

[981SPYGANG]

politeperson said:

I am so please that Dakar sold for £176k. It means I might get one! I think they are very desirable.

The other option I was contemplating was a 296 GTB. They seem to be around for £220k now. To mind mind the only modern car I have ever seen that is about as pretty as a Muira.

I know I will get bitten with a Ferrari though. It has happened before.

I already own a 992 C2 which now has 60,000 miles. Would a Dakar be too similar? That C2 is fantastic in the real world and is the one car to keep as my daily forever, I love it. Best car I have ever owned.

First world problems.

Apologies in advance for going off piste but could you, or anyone, please explain the appeal of a Dakar?

Genuine question and this time thanks in advance!

[Cheib]

Wills2 said:

Guyr said:

A Dakar just sold for £176k+fees on CC. This surprised me as that must be below list with the options cost added and independent dealers are normally all over CC.

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2023-porsche-9...

One sold last June for £253,000 inc fees that's quite the correction.

The OPC I use was originally told it was getting two Dakar’s, it got eight. The original premium was around it being quite a limited numbers car…turns out it is not very limited……

[unrepentant]

TheDeadPrussian said:

Guyr said:

A Dakar just sold for £176k+fees on CC. This surprised me as that must be below list with the options cost added and independent dealers are normally all over CC.

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2023-porsche-9...

List is £173,000, so two or three options and you are easily under list at £176 (plus the £6k fees) - agreed a surprising price given OPC prices.

I sold one for $315k (248k UKP) in March.

[911hope]

981SPYGANG said:

Apologies in advance for going off piste but could you, or anyone, please explain the appeal of a Dakar?

Genuine question and this time thanks in advance!

Probably the most suitable 911 for road use in the UK......
Potholes...

[politeperson]

Apart from the visual appeal, the reason I like the Dakar is that I think it might be useful on the rough roads and potholed surfaces I encounter everywhere in the UK and Europe.
The slightly higher center of gravity would have little impact to me.
I also think it might be relatively easy to get in and out of, although I haven't quite got to that age yet.
I also like the combination of torque and economy from that particular engine and I dont know anyone else who has one.
I also think it would be reliable, hold its value and have lovely long service intervals
What I dont like about it is the purchase price and the roll cage, as I have used the back seats quite alot in my 992 and what the heck do want roll cage for in a road car?

[Chemical Ali]

fridaypassion said:

Porsche is a the very worst brand for endless endless wittering on about prices. Some of the forums most critically boring people live off of this price talk spec talk new model that they will never buy talk.

Porsche has managed to create a Rolex effect brand. The cars are of a good standard but they are not the best or certainly not the sports stuff. I actually think in the market their SUVs are the best not their sports cars. Creating fake demand from fake lack of supply is genius and it's exactly what Rolex have done. In the old days when the retail prices were lower this was great for the people that got to buy them at list but that mask has slipped now and the cars need to stay on their own merits. Porsche are now fully moving towards being a mass market brand they are no longer a niche premium manufacturer. When you buy one today pretty well any car they sell will depreciate. Can we just accept that and move on? Definitely not

Exactly this. They created an icon out of a race car engine from mid 2010s, the 991.2 gt3. Its then been put into everything interesting since. Nobody seems to twig it. The variations, 992 gt3, gt4rs, St, gt3 rs are all very good motors but now dated old tech and 10 year old engine relatively speaking.

Look at, for example, mclaren artura at sub 200k is near on 700 bhp hybrid compared to a gt4rs of similar money when taking into account the porsche tax. Are they both the same value as a sports car? Yes judging by price. But as an actual machine the mclaren is light years ahead.

Porsche is a marketing company that makes cars.

[RS Guy]

981SPYGANG said:

politeperson said:

I am so please that Dakar sold for £176k. It means I might get one! I think they are very desirable.

The other option I was contemplating was a 296 GTB. They seem to be around for £220k now. To mind mind the only modern car I have ever seen that is about as pretty as a Muira.

I know I will get bitten with a Ferrari though. It has happened before.

I already own a 992 C2 which now has 60,000 miles. Would a Dakar be too similar? That C2 is fantastic in the real world and is the one car to keep as my daily forever, I love it. Best car I have ever owned.

First world problems.

Apologies in advance for going off piste but could you, or anyone, please explain the appeal of a Dakar?

Genuine question and this time thanks in advance!

Zero interest to me I turned one down, rather keep my WP 4RS for a bit longer.

[Chemical Ali]

Personally love the 911 concept, like thd brand but it's drifting away from what attracted me to it in my younger days. It's now a behemothic corporate beast selling mostly bland but fast generic motors with a badge on.

[911hope]

Chemical Ali said:

Exactly this. They created an icon out of a race car engine from mid 2010s, the 991.2 gt3. Its then been put into everything interesting since. Nobody seems to twig it. The variations, 992 gt3, gt4rs, St, gt3 rs are all very good motors but now dated old tech and 10 year old engine relatively speaking.

Look at, for example, mclaren artura at sub 200k is near on 700 bhp hybrid compared to a gt4rs of similar money when taking into account the porsche tax. Are they both the same value as a sports car? Yes judging by price. But as an actual machine the mclaren is light years ahead.

Porsche is a marketing company that makes cars.

That makes Porsche a successful business.

[981SPYGANG]

politeperson said:

Apart from the visual appeal, the reason I like the Dakar is that I think it might be useful on the rough roads and potholed surfaces I encounter everywhere in the UK and Europe.
The slightly higher center of gravity would have little impact to me.
I also think it might be relatively easy to get in and out of, although I haven't quite got to that age yet.
I also like the combination of torque and economy from that particular engine and I dont know anyone else who has one.
I also think it would be reliable, hold its value and have lovely long service intervals
What I dont like about it is the purchase price and the roll cage, as I have used the back seats quite alot in my 992 and what the heck do want roll cage for in a road car?

Thanks…..happy motoring should you make a purchase

[AndrewD]

Chemical Ali said:

Exactly this. They created an icon out of a race car engine from mid 2010s, the 991.2 gt3. Its then been put into everything interesting since. Nobody seems to twig it. The variations, 992 gt3, gt4rs, St, gt3 rs are all very good motors but now dated old tech and 10 year old engine relatively speaking.

Look at, for example, mclaren artura at sub 200k is near on 700 bhp hybrid compared to a gt4rs of similar money when taking into account the porsche tax. Are they both the same value as a sports car? Yes judging by price. But as an actual machine the mclaren is light years ahead.

Porsche is a marketing company that makes cars.

Each to their own but another way of looking at it is that a na 9000 sports car engine is pretty unique and most other makers are relying on turbo or hybrid. At the same time, who is going to invest in completely new technology with a ban on ICE looming?

Ferrari’s V12 is a variant of even older engine design.

McLaren, well their engines are effective but nobody could call them charismatic. Have they resolved the bugs in the hybrid? Will they still be here in 5 years (I hope they will having owned 2 LTs)? And Porsche have the hybrid coming in 992.2 which I would bet money will work out of the box.

On the subject of engines, if you look more broadly at tye drivetrain, most people also think pdk is a class leading dual clutch gearbox. What do McLaren, Lamborghini and Ferrari do, buy them in from Graziano etc. But Porsche is a brand company and McLaren are an example of innovation.

You can rightly criticise Porsche for a lot of things, but I personally find this one strange.

Edited by AndrewD on Saturday 25th May 09:24