Dilemma - Porsche or Toyota?
Discussion
CarreraLightweightRacing said:
Sorry fellow, I really don't mean to argue or take anything away from the achievement of what Toyota have done with the GR but cars have ballooned massively over the years, a few examples off the top of my head (I may be a little out with the weights):
-Original mini sub 600kg : 2020 Mini Cooper around 1250kg = +650kg
-911r (1967) 800kg : 2020 911GT3RS will be in the order of 1400kg = again around +600kg
-Even a lightweight little Elise has gone up over 200kg within its short lifespan
There is plenty of potential to make cars much lighter especially so given modern composite technology and lightweight 3 cyl Turbo engines. It just isn't the way yet, although the Alfa 4C came somewhere close.
Good luck to Toyota, it is great to see them producing such a serious weapon. With 25000 units being produced it should provide a lot of fun for many lucky buyers.
Tighter regulations on safety. More weight but much more power, braking power, much better handling, more equipment, better comfort, etc. I know what I and majority of punters would prefer. If one really wanted a stripped out vehicle, then get a Catherham or super bike -Original mini sub 600kg : 2020 Mini Cooper around 1250kg = +650kg
-911r (1967) 800kg : 2020 911GT3RS will be in the order of 1400kg = again around +600kg
-Even a lightweight little Elise has gone up over 200kg within its short lifespan
There is plenty of potential to make cars much lighter especially so given modern composite technology and lightweight 3 cyl Turbo engines. It just isn't the way yet, although the Alfa 4C came somewhere close.
Good luck to Toyota, it is great to see them producing such a serious weapon. With 25000 units being produced it should provide a lot of fun for many lucky buyers.
Sevenon said:
Tighter regulations on safety. More weight but much more power, braking power, much better handling, more equipment, better comfort, etc. I know what I and majority of punters would prefer. If one really wanted a stripped out vehicle, then get a Catherham or super bike
The market doesn't agree in the slightest with this statement. Take modern Porsche; is the preference comfort seats or carbon buckets, PDK or Manual, more equipment or minimalist driver focused spec, lightweight PCCB or steels, higher powered turbos vs singing NA and so on. This is before you get on to modern driver aids, like RWS, active dampers or valved exhausts; The more dedicated driver specced cars will command a premium everyday of the week and by some margin. That's not to say it would be everyone's cup of tea and I'm happy if you prefer more creature comforts and driver aids, but the so called stripped out cars are far more expensive and that is before you consider what their lightweight forefathers such as the 911r, ST, 73RS... will set you back by comparison. No need for the "
" I couldn't care less what your goodself and the supposed majority would prefer. There is no right or wrong here. I'm sure the Toyota will be a hoot to most, I'd personally rather pump £35k into a something a little more tactile, engaging and driver focused but can see the draw to the GR. Wish you all the best in your pursuit for driving pleasure. CarreraLightweightRacing said:
The market doesn't agree in the slightest with this statement. Take modern Porsche; is the preference comfort seats or carbon buckets, PDK or Manual, more equipment or minimalist driver focused spec, lightweight PCCB or steels, higher powered turbos vs singing NA and so on. This is before you get on to modern driver aids, like RWS, active dampers or valved exhausts; The more dedicated driver specced cars will command a premium everyday of the week and by some margin. That's not to say it would be everyone's cup of tea and I'm happy if you prefer more creature comforts and driver aids, but the so called stripped out cars are far more expensive and that is before you consider what their lightweight forefathers such as the 911r, ST, 73RS... will set you back by comparison.
No need for the " " I couldn't care less what your goodself and the supposed majority would prefer. There is no right or wrong here. I'm sure the Toyota will be a hoot to most, I'd personally rather pump £35k into a something a little more tactile, engaging and driver focused but can see the draw to the GR. Wish you all the best in your pursuit for driving pleasure.
The vast majority of the market that buys cars does. There are a lot more 911 CS with chairs and steels and PDK than the stripped out versions. The GR is not a limited run. It's trying to shift 25,000 of them (well that was the original plan before they pulled the plug on the 2021 rally car), so they need to appeal to a wide audience. Personally, I have to find a balance of an out and out stripped out car, and one that my wife can drive on the odd occasion and one that I can fit my two young kids in the back too. No need for the "
" I couldn't care less what your goodself and the supposed majority would prefer. There is no right or wrong here. I'm sure the Toyota will be a hoot to most, I'd personally rather pump £35k into a something a little more tactile, engaging and driver focused but can see the draw to the GR. Wish you all the best in your pursuit for driving pleasure. Sevenon said:
CarreraLightweightRacing said:
The market doesn't agree in the slightest with this statement. Take modern Porsche; is the preference comfort seats or carbon buckets, PDK or Manual, more equipment or minimalist driver focused spec, lightweight PCCB or steels, higher powered turbos vs singing NA and so on. This is before you get on to modern driver aids, like RWS, active dampers or valved exhausts; The more dedicated driver specced cars will command a premium everyday of the week and by some margin. That's not to say it would be everyone's cup of tea and I'm happy if you prefer more creature comforts and driver aids, but the so called stripped out cars are far more expensive and that is before you consider what their lightweight forefathers such as the 911r, ST, 73RS... will set you back by comparison.
No need for the " " I couldn't care less what your goodself and the supposed majority would prefer. There is no right or wrong here. I'm sure the Toyota will be a hoot to most, I'd personally rather pump £35k into a something a little more tactile, engaging and driver focused but can see the draw to the GR. Wish you all the best in your pursuit for driving pleasure.
The vast majority of the market that buys cars does. There are a lot more 911 CS with chairs and steels and PDK than the stripped out versions. The GR is not a limited run. It's trying to shift 25,000 of them (well that was the original plan before they pulled the plug on the 2021 rally car), so they need to appeal to a wide audience. Personally, I have to find a balance of an out and out stripped out car, and one that my wife can drive on the odd occasion and one that I can fit my two young kids in the back too. No need for the "
" I couldn't care less what your goodself and the supposed majority would prefer. There is no right or wrong here. I'm sure the Toyota will be a hoot to most, I'd personally rather pump £35k into a something a little more tactile, engaging and driver focused but can see the draw to the GR. Wish you all the best in your pursuit for driving pleasure. I got the same email and it might be the factor that tips me over into ordering one. I think you have to have ordered it between 1 July and 30 September to qualify for the 0% finance offer (over 2 years), and I think you can do it with zero deposit as well.
Fairly tempting. Black, circuit pack, job done!
Fairly tempting. Black, circuit pack, job done!
monaco1981 said:
Got an email from Toyota offering 0% finance on the GR Yaris Today. 260/300 a month with nothing up front. No discount on the sticker price but cheap motoring for a couple of years. Not sure it is a rival to a Porsche but would be a hoot and cheap motoring at 0%
260/300 a month would require a deposit of £6-8k. Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff