944 S2 & Turbo running costs
Discussion
I feel a Porsche purchase coming on... I was originally going for a 968 but prices seem to be holding rather too firm for my liking, so I'm beginning to think about a 944S2 or Turbo. They don't look quite as pretty, but they look like excellent value for money at the moment, and significantly less £££ than a 968. I'm not going to ask if an S2 or a Turbo is best; both seem to have their fans and I think I just need to drive a couple. However I've heard conflicting views about how expensive Turbos are to run. I know servicing costs are a little higher for a Turbo, but are other running costs likely to be higher and do they have a greater likelihood of needing expensive work carried out on a regular basis?
in the past the collective impression of contributors to this forum has been that as a rule of thumb the turbos will cost about 10-25% more to maintain and run than their normally aspirated brethren. this is borne out in part by looking at the servicing schedules for well respected independents - for a 12k service at hartech for example, £220 for the S2, £240 for the turbo. similarly £235 vs £255 at JZMachtech. OF course engine wear and parts wear may also be a bit higher on the turbo. IMHO the S2 gives a huge dollop of the turbos performance, smoother power delivery and a more refined and useable daily drive. Personally I'd choose the S2 but there isnt much in it. Really you just need to drive them and see which you prefer - this is ultimately going to be more important than a few quid here and there. One has to have reasonably deep pockets to maintain any porsche properly but aah! the payback!
Completely diffent feel to the power.
I haven't had an S2 but have a 968 which is pretty close; smooth power, torque low down but never really feels fast, though it is. I was so concenred with mine I took it to JZ Machtech and their rolling road confimred it was making good power.
The turbo is slow car/fast car. not good until the turbo kicks in when it goes wild - or at least it does if you tune it a bit. The other benefit is many of the turbo's have better suspension and brakes.
The out and out power and the wall of torque was amazing but on the whole I prefer the 968 for the road.
You really need to drive both - quite a lot if you can - and bear in mind that many run the turbos with at least an extra 30-50 bph which makes a big differnce
james
I haven't had an S2 but have a 968 which is pretty close; smooth power, torque low down but never really feels fast, though it is. I was so concenred with mine I took it to JZ Machtech and their rolling road confimred it was making good power.
The turbo is slow car/fast car. not good until the turbo kicks in when it goes wild - or at least it does if you tune it a bit. The other benefit is many of the turbo's have better suspension and brakes.
The out and out power and the wall of torque was amazing but on the whole I prefer the 968 for the road.
You really need to drive both - quite a lot if you can - and bear in mind that many run the turbos with at least an extra 30-50 bph which makes a big differnce
james
What do you want the car for ?
Everyday driving------------S2
Fun gooning------------Turbo
I have an S2 & tis a nice car, I'd quite like to try a Turbo but for everyday driving the on/off power could be a pain in the ass.
seems like turbos are about £2k more for similar age/condition, what ever you decide to go for get it checked out buy specialist B4 you hand over the dosh.
>> Edited by Bananaman on Thursday 30th September 10:32
Everyday driving------------S2
Fun gooning------------Turbo
I have an S2 & tis a nice car, I'd quite like to try a Turbo but for everyday driving the on/off power could be a pain in the ass.
seems like turbos are about £2k more for similar age/condition, what ever you decide to go for get it checked out buy specialist B4 you hand over the dosh.
>> Edited by Bananaman on Thursday 30th September 10:32
I dont drive everyday but when I do I drive my Turbo.
It also gets used on the odd trackday. I have done over 50k miles in 3 1/2 years. I do alot of work on it myself but it still costs a lot to run.
I have given up adding up the numbers.
However mine is now up at 323bhp 329ft/lbs and I think anything quicker would cost more in depreciation/servicing.
I only really notice the lack of off boost performance in first gear as it is easy to drive around - Also updating the wastegate helps a lot.
A clutch is expensive in labour - more so on the turbo and is likely to get close to £1k.
My last service (144k) + new belts / tensioners / water pump / front end oil seals was just over £1k but the belts should last 36k minimum (or 4 years) water pump at least 72k (Mine was still ok and probably original) but if it seizes it can take the belts out.
Belt failure can destroy the engine which is why most people change them at 36 not 48 - though mine had done 48k but I had a good look at them at 36k.
Also mine is a 90 car and later cars have a better belt tensioner.
Brake pads - I use green stuff - under £100 for front and rear - discs are reasonable from Berlyn srvices or Eurocarparts.
Ignition parts are quite pricey £60 for leads on a turbo £75 for an S2.
Most parts are readily available from OPC some at suprisingly good prices
others at shockingly bad 
S2's can have problems with damaged cam shaft if the tensioners are not kept in good condition - One cam is driven off the belts the second one chain driven from the first and the chain tensioner wears. This check was not on the service list. New cams are around 1k IIRC.
Tony
It also gets used on the odd trackday. I have done over 50k miles in 3 1/2 years. I do alot of work on it myself but it still costs a lot to run.
I have given up adding up the numbers.
However mine is now up at 323bhp 329ft/lbs and I think anything quicker would cost more in depreciation/servicing.
I only really notice the lack of off boost performance in first gear as it is easy to drive around - Also updating the wastegate helps a lot.
A clutch is expensive in labour - more so on the turbo and is likely to get close to £1k.
My last service (144k) + new belts / tensioners / water pump / front end oil seals was just over £1k but the belts should last 36k minimum (or 4 years) water pump at least 72k (Mine was still ok and probably original) but if it seizes it can take the belts out.
Belt failure can destroy the engine which is why most people change them at 36 not 48 - though mine had done 48k but I had a good look at them at 36k.
Also mine is a 90 car and later cars have a better belt tensioner.
Brake pads - I use green stuff - under £100 for front and rear - discs are reasonable from Berlyn srvices or Eurocarparts.
Ignition parts are quite pricey £60 for leads on a turbo £75 for an S2.
Most parts are readily available from OPC some at suprisingly good prices
others at shockingly bad S2's can have problems with damaged cam shaft if the tensioners are not kept in good condition - One cam is driven off the belts the second one chain driven from the first and the chain tensioner wears. This check was not on the service list. New cams are around 1k IIRC.
Tony
I want it for a bit of both really - as I get the train to work, my everyday driving adds up to a couple of supermarket/B&Q trips a week and then mostly long-distance trips at the weekend.
I realise no Porker is going to be exactly cheap to run - one reason for going for a 944 rather than a 968 is to leave me with more reserves in case of things going wrong. That and the fact that I suspect a good example of a 944 might be a better buy than a "cheap" 968. A PPI by an independant specialist is certainly in the plan.
>> Edited by saxmund on Thursday 30th September 12:40
I used to use my Turbo every day until my travel to work was altered. 100 miles at 20 mpg everyday would be pretty foolish.
Full details of my running costs can be found in my profile.
At the moment it's really turning into a standard looking (coilover suspension, r compound tyres on std wheels) track slag, and next year will be storted at the 'ring.
I still take it for a blast every other weekend....and it makes me grin everytime!
Full details of my running costs can be found in my profile.
At the moment it's really turning into a standard looking (coilover suspension, r compound tyres on std wheels) track slag, and next year will be storted at the 'ring.
I still take it for a blast every other weekend....and it makes me grin everytime!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
What's with this 28 driving it normal nonsense???!!!
Only joking. My everyday run involves traffic, then motorway (about 5 miles) then traffic both ways. Not good for fuel consumption. Whenever I drive it outside of this, its usually quite spirited, so the mpg stays low.
I have found on a long, steady run up north I got closer to 30 mpg. Mine is midly modified, 280 bhp but no dual port wastegate...yet...
Well I’ve had my S2 for over four years now and I’ve just checked my running costs, after a fairly terrible start the bills have been very reasonable, working out at 26p / mile, although this does not include petrol, insurance or depreciation. Petrol consumption is around 23mpg, slightly more on a long run.
I used to use the car every day but I needed to use my car for work and the Porsche wasn’t very practical, so I bought a second car and just use the Porsche for longer journeys and weekend fun. There was a period a while back when I considered selling it as I’d always wanted a BMW M5, but after a particularly memorable evening drive from mid Wales across country to Sheffield, I decided that I couldn’t justify the extra expense for a car I wasn’t sure could match the driving experience of the S2.
After fours year and over 26K the car is still 100% reliable and it still gives be a great buzz EVERY time I drive it. I’ve always wanted to try a Turbo just to see how much quicker they are but I’m sure the non-linear power delivery would not suit my driving style or the sort of roads I favour here in the Peak District.
I can’t see why the Turbo should be more expensive to run though? If you get a late S2 most of the suspension and transmission are the same, the Turbo only has one cam, and none of the famously weak cam chain tensioner of the S2. Fuel consumption seems similar so unless you get the tuning bug, ( far to easy with a turbo car! ) or the turbo itself goes, what can cost more?
At the end of the day you need to try both before making your decision, but based on what you’ve put in previous posts I’d say the S2 is the better option.
Good Luck, which ever you choose you'll not regret it!
Andy
>> Edited by andys2 on Friday 1st October 22:15
I used to use the car every day but I needed to use my car for work and the Porsche wasn’t very practical, so I bought a second car and just use the Porsche for longer journeys and weekend fun. There was a period a while back when I considered selling it as I’d always wanted a BMW M5, but after a particularly memorable evening drive from mid Wales across country to Sheffield, I decided that I couldn’t justify the extra expense for a car I wasn’t sure could match the driving experience of the S2.
After fours year and over 26K the car is still 100% reliable and it still gives be a great buzz EVERY time I drive it. I’ve always wanted to try a Turbo just to see how much quicker they are but I’m sure the non-linear power delivery would not suit my driving style or the sort of roads I favour here in the Peak District.
I can’t see why the Turbo should be more expensive to run though? If you get a late S2 most of the suspension and transmission are the same, the Turbo only has one cam, and none of the famously weak cam chain tensioner of the S2. Fuel consumption seems similar so unless you get the tuning bug, ( far to easy with a turbo car! ) or the turbo itself goes, what can cost more?
At the end of the day you need to try both before making your decision, but based on what you’ve put in previous posts I’d say the S2 is the better option.
Good Luck, which ever you choose you'll not regret it!
Andy
>> Edited by andys2 on Friday 1st October 22:15
I've had mine for 3 years and covered 40,000 miles. It has cost me 13p per miles, including what I have spent on fuel, brakes, suspension, clutch, belts, excluding insurance and garaging costs.
Wether it's a turbo or an S2 they do cost some money to sort out but they can't be beaten for quality and put to shame many modern cars on this point.
I expect to be buried with mine.
Wether it's a turbo or an S2 they do cost some money to sort out but they can't be beaten for quality and put to shame many modern cars on this point.
I expect to be buried with mine.
Thanks to all who have commented: I've decided it's time to put my money where my mouth has been for the last 18 months, sort out finance and who's going to insure me, and go and buy one. I have to admit to being slightly worried about what I'm letting myself in for, but I'm sure it'll be worth it.
Don't be worried Saxmund. If you take your time and pick a good one you'll have no regrets. Don't make up your mind on Turbo or S2 until you've driven a few, and get the best one you can find.
I have one of each and the Turbo does cost more to run, but not much. It uses more fuel than the S2, it needs an oil change every 6k miles as opposed to 12k with the S2, it generally costs more to insure and the initial purchase price will be more.
Apart from that all other running costs are the same really. Checkout my profile for cost details.
I have one of each and the Turbo does cost more to run, but not much. It uses more fuel than the S2, it needs an oil change every 6k miles as opposed to 12k with the S2, it generally costs more to insure and the initial purchase price will be more.
Apart from that all other running costs are the same really. Checkout my profile for cost details.
Just looking at my MPG again.
I can only get 300 miles to a tank under normal circumstaces, I once got over 320. Driving at the ring I will be filling up every 150 miles (10 laps).
A days driving at the ring usually needs a litre of oil too, where as in normal driving this is a litre per 1000 mies.
I can only get 300 miles to a tank under normal circumstaces, I once got over 320. Driving at the ring I will be filling up every 150 miles (10 laps).
A days driving at the ring usually needs a litre of oil too, where as in normal driving this is a litre per 1000 mies.
My experience ? Not so good. I wont go into the technical details
Just as well
but suffice to say that there can be fuelling issues surrounding this device.
Expalin
Ideally it would not be fitted on its own.
True
Its not even a suitable replacement for a knackered standard wastegate.
Yes it is
They can sometimes be used and it 'fools' the ecu into thinking that it needs to be in overboost all the time. (944turbo's have an 'overboost' built in).
Expain
Iv heard temperature problems and other things,
What ?
also the spring is not the same rate as standard when on the lowest setting.
Doh! Wrong spring fitted then
Just as well
but suffice to say that there can be fuelling issues surrounding this device.
Expalin
Ideally it would not be fitted on its own.
True
Its not even a suitable replacement for a knackered standard wastegate.
Yes it is
They can sometimes be used and it 'fools' the ecu into thinking that it needs to be in overboost all the time. (944turbo's have an 'overboost' built in).
Expain
Iv heard temperature problems and other things,
What ?
also the spring is not the same rate as standard when on the lowest setting.
Doh! Wrong spring fitted then
Matt we've been here b4
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=96162
There are many completely satisfactory DPW installs in the UK
Suggest you try and read Maximum Boost by Corky Bell
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=96162
There are many completely satisfactory DPW installs in the UK
Suggest you try and read Maximum Boost by Corky Bell
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