Pls help me choose my next 911. 997 GTS or 991.2 GTS or?

[Venosta]

I have been an active PH forum poster in the past but changed my email so I am here under a new username. I appreciate the advice on this forum, and am wondering..

It's time to get into 911 ownership again. In the past I had a few 911s as weekend cars (through the decades, 911 SC, 964 C4, 996 Turbo, 996 Turbo S) and more recently briefly a 992 C2S Cabrio as a daily. I didn't gel with the 992, very sophisticated car but at normal UK urban/exurban speeds, felt too clinical and tame.

I have sold my C63S which I found a bit lifeless and not fun enough. I have driven many 911 variants and really liked the 997 GTS and 991/2 GTS. I am in a 992 GTS this week, which I like but is out of my price range.

So as a DD I am choosing between a 997 GTS and 991.2 GTS. Has to be PDK, as I live in town and my wife wants PDK also. Always tempted by a Turbo but I think a GTS is more fun for my needs, which do not involve enough flat out autobahn storming, sadly.

Here's where I am with my thinking, has anyone owned both?

997 GTS:
Pros:
N/A engine, I do prefer N/A over turbos, which can get a bit boring after a while IMO
Hydraulic steering. Love this.
Compact
Looking a bit classic now/you dont get as much hate
Unlikely to depreciate


Cons:
Slower engine and gearbox
Older car with less good satnav, no parking cameras and other boring but useful conveniences
More risk of going wrong
Hard to find a really great one



991.2 GTS
Pros:
Fast
Newer interior (more comfortable?)
More conveniences/mod cons
Likely to be more reliable as newer
More choice of nicer spec/options

Cons:
Electric steering
Quite common here in London/a bit generic
Will I get bored of it like I did my 992?
Is it less fun at lower speeds?

Sadly most of my driving is in town, suburbs and nearby, Is the 997 GTS more fun at lower speeds, as many older cars are? I do remember 991.2 GTS being a hoot last time I drove one.

I have other cars for pure 2 seater weekend use, and need occasional back seats, thus gravitating to these.

Any thoughts v welcome.

Edited by Venosta on Wednesday 27th September 13:59

Edited by Venosta on Wednesday 27th September 16:02

[Koln-RS]

You’ll get lots of personal opinions …..

However, do know what you mean about the 992.
It does seem to have moved the ‘911’ into a different arena that doesn’t appeal to everyone - bigger, more mainstream, more tech, more complexity.
Clearly an accomplished car, but somehow lacking the character and simplicity of the earlier models, including even the 991.
The GT models offer some nice elements, but no rear seats, and on-road compromises.

[Nurburgsingh]

if you like the NA's Why no 991.1GTS in your list?

[Dr S]

Just picked up my 7.2 GT3 from OPC after tire change. As much as I appreciate the later Tourings, the 7.2 to me is peak Porsche. It's provides such an "organic" driving experience

[Venosta]

Koln-RS said:

You’ll get lots of personal opinions …..

However, do know what you mean about the 992.
It does seem to have moved the ‘911’ into a different arena that doesn’t appeal to everyone - bigger, more mainstream, more tech, more complexity.
Clearly an accomplished car, but somehow lacking the character and simplicity of the earlier models, including even the 991.
The GT models offer some nice elements, but no rear seats, and on-road compromises.

Yes..I know it's very much horses for courses with 911s of course..

[Venosta]

Nurburgsingh said:

if you like the NA's Why no 991.1GTS in your list?

It's a good question. I didn't really gel with the steering on any 991.1s, even the GT3 I tried, also GTS. Also with .1 GTS it felt like it really needed to be driven hard to be enjoyed, which is great but sadly doesn't suit my future lived experience. Just a personal view.

[Venosta]

Dr S said:

Just picked up my 7.2 GT3 from OPC after tire change. As much as I appreciate the later Tourings, the 7.2 to me is peak Porsche. It's provides such an "organic" driving experience

That was my feeling after test driving one recently, I hadn't driven one since they were new. Part of the dilemma.

[Cheib]

I owned a 997 GTS for six years which I sold last year, they are awesome cars! Mine was a manual which I absolutely loved.

I did consider buying my OPC's 991.2 GTS demonstrator which they lent me for the day so I was lucky enough to drive both cars back to back for a decent amount of time. I'd say the main difference is the chassis. The 991.2 is a bit more compliant so better able to deal with the state of our roads.

As much as I loved the 997 if I was going to buy one for a daily I think I'd go 991.2.

Reasons

- Better gearbox as you are going PDK.
- Better daily due to having Apple Car Play/more up to date tech.
- Engine. The magic happens with the 997 GTS at the top of the rev range which is why the manual gearbox car is such an awesome car. I'd say driving in London I'd prefer the torque of the turbo 991.2 engine. Although it really doesn't feel turbo charged.
- Slightly more compliant suspension

People talk about the 991 being a much bigger car. The glasshouse is bigger and wider so wing mirrors stick out more but width is virtually identical. In fact I reckon rear track on the 991.2 may well be narrower. I also have a 991.2 GT3 which is slightly wider at the rear than a 2wd GTS...my GT3 and 997 were virtually identical rear width at wheel arches....I have a narrow garage so acutely aware of this!

If your use was country lanes and you wanted a manual I'd go for the 997 without a doubt.

997.2 GT3 is an awesome car but not everyone would want to daily one in London.

HTH

[Polome]

I’m sure the .2gts could suit your use. My (.2gts) is easy to drive in the city and if in right gear (pdk) has plenty low down shove giving limited “driving pleasure ” at town (ish) speeds. However the thought of rarely experiencing the true performance would drive me mad…yes I can , and do drive , in the city on a daily basis but a regular early morning country drive lets me appreciate the cars design performance/philosophy .I suspect considering your projected use you could save a packet and buy the newest base car and enjoy it just as much….good luck with your choice.

Edited by Polome on Wednesday 27th September 18:53

[Venosta]

Cheib said:

I owned a 997 GTS for six years which I sold last year, they are awesome cars! Mine was a manual which I absolutely loved.

I did consider buying my OPC's 991.2 GTS demonstrator which they lent me for the day so I was lucky enough to drive both cars back to back for a decent amount of time. I'd say the main difference is the chassis. The 991.2 is a bit more compliant so better able to deal with the state of our roads.

As much as I loved the 997 if I was going to buy one for a daily I think I'd go 991.2.

Reasons

- Better gearbox as you are going PDK.
- Better daily due to having Apple Car Play/more up to date tech.
- Engine. The magic happens with the 997 GTS at the top of the rev range which is why the manual gearbox car is such an awesome car. I'd say driving in London I'd prefer the torque of the turbo 991.2 engine. Although it really doesn't feel turbo charged.
- Slightly more compliant suspension

People talk about the 991 being a much bigger car. The glasshouse is bigger and wider so wing mirrors stick out more but width is virtually identical. In fact I reckon rear track on the 991.2 may well be narrower. I also have a 991.2 GT3 which is slightly wider at the rear than a 2wd GTS...my GT3 and 997 were virtually identical rear width at wheel arches....I have a narrow garage so acutely aware of this!

If your use was country lanes and you wanted a manual I'd go for the 997 without a doubt.

997.2 GT3 is an awesome car but not everyone would want to daily one in London.

HTH

Thank you, this is really helpful. I had a 991.2 GTS for a week (it was a 4) when they were new and I remember being surprised at how much fun it was. Surprised because the other 991s I had driven to date, including .1 GT3 and GTS RS, for me only really woke up and became fun at proper high speeds, which I rarely get the chance to do in my DD. (I do have other cars for that though).

I am swinging towards the 991.2 now. Also much easier to get one Porsche Approved.

[Venosta]

Polome said:

I’m sure the .2gts could suit your use. My (.2gts) is easy to drive in the city and if in right gear (pdk) has plenty low down shove giving limited “driving pleasure ” at town (ish) speeds. However the thought of rarely experiencing the true performance would drive me mad…yes I can , and do drive , in the city on a daily basis but a regular early morning country drive lets me appreciate the cars design performance/philosophy .I suspect considering your projected use you could save a packet and buy the newest base car and enjoy it just as much….good luck with your choice.

Edited by Polome on Wednesday 27th September 18:53

Thank you yes, and of course that all makes sense. I will take the car on some country outings, for example when I get "lost" on the way to the in-laws in the country ("Oh, damn, took the wrong junction again, you'd think I'd know after all these years" etc). But the majority of time in the car will not be on great roads.

Rationally I would be better off with a combination of an electric car and Uber. But in my own world of illogic: a GTS is better for my kind of driving because it is actually more fun at low speeds than pretty much any other 911, certainly any 911 with back seats. Base model is super swift and competent, but not exciting, for me, for my use. That's why I sold my 992 C2S; steering was vague, engine lacked urgency, for my daily driving. Highly competent car.

I am in a 992 C4 GTS this week and I love it - a totally different car to the C2S. I am sure there is something else they do to them other than the "options" made standard, but who knows. That's why I am aiming for a GTS of some kind.

I wonder if a C4 might actually be better for urban driving, all those right angles, the front pulling you out and whisking the car around. (Obviously, not the case for proper fast road driving). Does anyone have any views on this?

[Cheib]

Venosta said:

I wonder if a C4 might actually be better for urban driving, all those right angles, the front pulling you out and whisking the car around. (Obviously, not the case for proper fast road driving). Does anyone have any views on this?

I would only contemplate a 4wd 911 if it was a daily and I would be driving on roads in conditions where I really needed that extra traction. That means snow or high speed driving in heavy rain. Even then a 2wd 911 with winter tyres will be an easier car to drive in winter than a 4wd with normal tyres on it.

I honestly don’t think a 911 really needs 4wd, maybe the turbo does but being a rear engined rear wheel drive car means it has awesome traction as a 2wd car.

[Dr S]

Cheib said:

Venosta said:

I wonder if a C4 might actually be better for urban driving, all those right angles, the front pulling you out and whisking the car around. (Obviously, not the case for proper fast road driving). Does anyone have any views on this?

I would only contemplate a 4wd 911 if it was a daily and I would be driving on roads in conditions where I really needed that extra traction. That means snow or high speed driving in heavy rain. Even then a 2wd 911 with winter tyres will be an easier car to drive in winter than a 4wd with normal tyres on it.

I honestly don’t think a 911 really needs 4wd, maybe the turbo does but being a rear engined rear wheel drive car means it has awesome traction as a 2wd car.

+1 - a 911 has so much traction due to engine location that 4WD does not really add much but weight. In Winter, 4WD will not rescue when breaking on snow. You need winters for that and then you can again go RWD

[GTRene]

Cheib said:

If your use was country lanes and you wanted a manual I'd go for the 997 without a doubt.

997.2 GT3 is an awesome car but not everyone would want to daily one in London.

HTH

I was wondering lately when looking through 997.2 GT3 ads, most you see with 435hp but also some with 450hp

and yes there is the expensive RS 997.2 4.0 with 500ps,

but what is that with the 450ps GT3 variant (manual) sometimes I read facelift or something like that in those ads, so, 997.2 the 435 non RS and 450hp non RS whats with those? are those the 'last' of the 997.2 series? special? or just upgraded last model of those with 3.8 GT3

[Venosta]

I am looking in more detail at 991.2 GTSs for sale now - prior to posting this thread it was more about 997s.

Can anyone help re. options?

OPCs are listing all of these "popular equipment options" on certain cars, but I am pretty sure they are standard:

Sport chrono, sports exhaust, LED headlights, sports seats

Meanwhile was the Alcantara Package (colour) in conjunction with GTS Interior Package, 2 different things, both options?

Are there any must have options? I understand sports PASM (- 10mm) was standard. I am guessing reversing camera was an option.

I have found a perfect car with the alcantara/GTS interior and wheel, except it's red and my wife refuses to drive a red 911. We are children of the 80s.

[Koln-RS]

Guards or Carmine ?

Guards was the colour of the ‘80s and suited the 911s of that era better than the bigger, contemporary, 991/992 models.

However, Carmine looks more subtle and is a ‘GT’ colour.

IMO the 991.2 is a nicer package than the 991.1, especially if going for the Manual gearbox, which was much improved and really suits the turbo engine.

[Cheib]

If it’s Carmine Red you need to go and see it….it photographs badly. It is quite a dark red.

[Venosta]

Carmine red, yes. I like it myself. Will try and find a similar one in London just for a colour test on my wife, and if it's approved, we can head across country to see the GTS.

I would like a blue one or funky frog green or orange etc but they are very rare.

I love manual cars, my weekend cars are all manual, but this has to be PDK as it's a London car most of its life and my wife has to like it.

Any help on options appreciated. Maybe they don't need options, though I am confused by the alcantara/GTS interior package terminology. It seems this means alcantara on wheel, gearshifter, glove box, visors, in addition to seats and door cards which are standard, but that's just a guess.

[Milemuncher]

Standard interior has half leather / half Alcantara seats with plastic dash and door trims.

Optional GTS interior has half leather / half Alcantara seats, leather dash and door trims and stitching in black.

Optional GTS interior in conjunction with red or silver stitching has half leather / half Alcantara seats with red or silver stitching (obviously!) and matching coloured dials.

I think Alcantara wheel was standard across all, but lots of cars have optional leather wheel as they wear better.

[rawenghey]

Cheib said:

If it’s Carmine Red you need to go and see it….it photographs badly. It is quite a dark red.

Echo this. Carmine is a lovely, deep, dirty red. I am partial to reds anyway, but Carmine is particularly nice. Guards red is a more traditional, brighter, sort of postbox red. Carmine is the nicer of the two I think. Well worth a look even for a red hater .

What about that Lava orange 991.2 GTS at RPM? I've been frothing over that since they posted it