Engine caught fire!
Discussion
Hey folks,
Been a while since I posted as not much has been going on with the Tuscan... until tonight!
Parked up and turned the engine off. Suddenly there was a load of white smoke which looked like steam coming from the engine bay. As I got out there was an explosion from the passenger side and I could see sparks and flames coming from where the anderson connector is.
The security from a nearby bar came out with fire extinguishers and tried to put the flames out which didn't help and by now the flames were coming out the top of the bonnet. The fire brigade arrived and after getting the main bonnet off (hats off to the blokes, they did a great job) it still took them about 30 minutes to get the fire out as it just wouldn't stop burning. They ended up having to go in through the passenger footwell and finally got it out. It's strange though because for quite a while there was still power because the boot and doors were working.
The whole battery area had melted and I have no idea how much damage it's done to everything else, plus the 1/4 of a fire engine's tank of water into the engine bay!
I called my roadside recovery and they hauled it up onto a flatbed to take away and will look after it until I decide what to do next. Really not happy. I just can't believe it. I've just spent £850 on new tax, service and MOT. Absolutely gutted.
A couple of things I noticed during my evening's adventure too...
1) The locked down main bonnet is REALLY fricking annoying!
2) Not being able to get in because there's no power is REALLY fricking annoying! It's lucky the drivers window was slightly down otherwise I would have been screwed trying to get it onto the flatbed.
3) Not having door handles, although looking cool, is a REALLY bad design idea!
4) Putting the battery where it is was a REALLY bad design idea!
5) Putting the fuel cut-off switch in the boot which can't be opened when there's no power is a REALLY stupid design idea!
Do you guys think with this level of damage it will be a writeoff? What the hell could have caused something like this? Yeah, it was raining but surely... I just dunno. It was just serviced, they would have noticed if the anderson connector was broken or anything. Anyone got any advice... anyone... anything? Help!!
J
Edit to add ...
Been a while since I posted as not much has been going on with the Tuscan... until tonight!
Parked up and turned the engine off. Suddenly there was a load of white smoke which looked like steam coming from the engine bay. As I got out there was an explosion from the passenger side and I could see sparks and flames coming from where the anderson connector is.
The security from a nearby bar came out with fire extinguishers and tried to put the flames out which didn't help and by now the flames were coming out the top of the bonnet. The fire brigade arrived and after getting the main bonnet off (hats off to the blokes, they did a great job) it still took them about 30 minutes to get the fire out as it just wouldn't stop burning. They ended up having to go in through the passenger footwell and finally got it out. It's strange though because for quite a while there was still power because the boot and doors were working.
The whole battery area had melted and I have no idea how much damage it's done to everything else, plus the 1/4 of a fire engine's tank of water into the engine bay!
I called my roadside recovery and they hauled it up onto a flatbed to take away and will look after it until I decide what to do next. Really not happy. I just can't believe it. I've just spent £850 on new tax, service and MOT. Absolutely gutted.
A couple of things I noticed during my evening's adventure too...
1) The locked down main bonnet is REALLY fricking annoying!
2) Not being able to get in because there's no power is REALLY fricking annoying! It's lucky the drivers window was slightly down otherwise I would have been screwed trying to get it onto the flatbed.
3) Not having door handles, although looking cool, is a REALLY bad design idea!
4) Putting the battery where it is was a REALLY bad design idea!
5) Putting the fuel cut-off switch in the boot which can't be opened when there's no power is a REALLY stupid design idea!
Do you guys think with this level of damage it will be a writeoff? What the hell could have caused something like this? Yeah, it was raining but surely... I just dunno. It was just serviced, they would have noticed if the anderson connector was broken or anything. Anyone got any advice... anyone... anything? Help!!
J
Edit to add ...
Edited by BigJL on Sunday 14th December 02:10
Wow!
Really, Really sorry to hear of your misfortune. It must be worse having nothing specific to put the blame on?
I have no idea what could of caused it except the usual, fuel pipe under air box, zorts too hot and too near other components, battery shorted etc.
As you so rightly mention, there are some pretty major design compromises that really do need sorting out during long term ownership.
Really, Really sorry to hear of your misfortune. It must be worse having nothing specific to put the blame on?
I have no idea what could of caused it except the usual, fuel pipe under air box, zorts too hot and too near other components, battery shorted etc.
As you so rightly mention, there are some pretty major design compromises that really do need sorting out during long term ownership.
Sorry to hear this, have a look here, http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... - Battery Charge Point
As soon as i can get mine over the pit i will be checking this, sooner rather than later now.
Without more pictures its had to see the extent of the damage as in the pic it does not look bad. I presume they will have damaged both bonnets as they wont mess about unbolting them surely?
As soon as i can get mine over the pit i will be checking this, sooner rather than later now.
Without more pictures its had to see the extent of the damage as in the pic it does not look bad. I presume they will have damaged both bonnets as they wont mess about unbolting them surely?
Holy s
t! So sorry to see/read of your trouble BigJL, must have been a traumatic time for you. Richard's post about the anderson connector might well lead you to the source of the issue, either that or the battery terminals/wires were suspect. Hard to know whether it should have been picked up on a service or not though.....
Hope you get a quick resolution mate,
Andy
t! So sorry to see/read of your trouble BigJL, must have been a traumatic time for you. Richard's post about the anderson connector might well lead you to the source of the issue, either that or the battery terminals/wires were suspect. Hard to know whether it should have been picked up on a service or not though.....Hope you get a quick resolution mate,
Andy
Dear All Tuscan Owners,
It would be very useful, via this thread, to pull together some definitive views and modifications that need to be made. I have seen several threads on similar fire issues, but not being a mechanic still remain slightly confused whether it is one overarching problem or several problems that can create the fire risk:
Are these the common problems:
- The anderson connector attached to the chassis shorts in some way http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
- The foam insulation in the battery bay fails and the positive terminal lead then shorts in the battery bay http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
- The bolts in the battery tray worn through? - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
- fuel pipe near the air box?
I do not want to take the car to the local specialist without having some knowledge or possibly only having one repair undertaken when there are a number of essential mods that are required.
Thoughts / comments welcomed.
P.S. If the links do not work the first is above anyway and the second is in the T350 forum and includes some great advice and pictures from GVarley - title Cause of Fire at TVR Power.
It would be very useful, via this thread, to pull together some definitive views and modifications that need to be made. I have seen several threads on similar fire issues, but not being a mechanic still remain slightly confused whether it is one overarching problem or several problems that can create the fire risk:
Are these the common problems:
- The anderson connector attached to the chassis shorts in some way http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
- The foam insulation in the battery bay fails and the positive terminal lead then shorts in the battery bay http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
- The bolts in the battery tray worn through? - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
- fuel pipe near the air box?
I do not want to take the car to the local specialist without having some knowledge or possibly only having one repair undertaken when there are a number of essential mods that are required.
Thoughts / comments welcomed.
P.S. If the links do not work the first is above anyway and the second is in the T350 forum and includes some great advice and pictures from GVarley - title Cause of Fire at TVR Power.
Soooooooo sorry to hear about your car. This is most likely to do with the Anderson connector. I believe that TVR put out a heads up to all approved service centres advising them that the Anderson Connector should be checked at every service. Track V Road, who service and maintain our cars, always check them for corossion and short circuit. I know that they replace them regularly. People, please make sure your service centre always checks and replaces them, if necessary, at the first sign of deteriation.
Afternoon all,
Cheers for your kind words!
The car is being taken to the TVR Centre on Monday morning to get checked out.
If I remember correctly, the fire started before the power stopped working. Not sure wheter that makes a difference, but if the battery short circuited wouldn't the power have gone off straight away? There were definitely sparks coming from the anderson connector after the explosion... initially I thought there was a firework under the car! It's funny what goes through your head in these moments!
You can't see much from the pic but that was after about half an hour of them trying to get the fire out. I should have taken some more pics. The fire guys were actually pretty good getting the bonnet off but there is probably damage to the front hinge of the service section as they pulled it quite far forwards to easily get to the other bolts. Cosmetically as far as I could see there was no damage to the paintwork or anything else - but it was dark and raining, so not too sure.
I'm thinking there's going to be a fair bit of damage to wiring, a hell of a lot of water damage and serious damage to the interior. I just had visions of the whole thing bursting into flames as I waited for the fire brigade. I still can't really believe it...!
I think it's going to be hard to see what caused it now considering there's nothing left of the battery area. I'm guessing the battery would have been disconnected when they changed the clutch slave cylinder during the service.
TBH, I'm not actually sure if I want it fixed now. I've lost a lot of confidence in the car which is a real shame as I do still love it.
J
Cheers for your kind words!
The car is being taken to the TVR Centre on Monday morning to get checked out.
If I remember correctly, the fire started before the power stopped working. Not sure wheter that makes a difference, but if the battery short circuited wouldn't the power have gone off straight away? There were definitely sparks coming from the anderson connector after the explosion... initially I thought there was a firework under the car! It's funny what goes through your head in these moments!
You can't see much from the pic but that was after about half an hour of them trying to get the fire out. I should have taken some more pics. The fire guys were actually pretty good getting the bonnet off but there is probably damage to the front hinge of the service section as they pulled it quite far forwards to easily get to the other bolts. Cosmetically as far as I could see there was no damage to the paintwork or anything else - but it was dark and raining, so not too sure.
I'm thinking there's going to be a fair bit of damage to wiring, a hell of a lot of water damage and serious damage to the interior. I just had visions of the whole thing bursting into flames as I waited for the fire brigade. I still can't really believe it...!
I think it's going to be hard to see what caused it now considering there's nothing left of the battery area. I'm guessing the battery would have been disconnected when they changed the clutch slave cylinder during the service.
TBH, I'm not actually sure if I want it fixed now. I've lost a lot of confidence in the car which is a real shame as I do still love it.
J
BigJL said:
1) The locked down main bonnet is REALLY fricking annoying!
2) Not being able to get in because there's no power is REALLY fricking annoying! It's lucky the drivers window was slightly down otherwise I would have been screwed trying to get it onto the flatbed.
3) Not having door handles, although looking cool, is a REALLY bad design idea!
4) Putting the battery where it is was a REALLY bad design idea!
5) Putting the fuel cut-off switch in the boot which can't be opened when there's no power is a REALLY stupid design idea!
Having had my own Tuscan go up in flames 9 months ago (see pic) you have my commiserations. Mine was not an Anderson connector issue I hasten to add.2) Not being able to get in because there's no power is REALLY fricking annoying! It's lucky the drivers window was slightly down otherwise I would have been screwed trying to get it onto the flatbed.
3) Not having door handles, although looking cool, is a REALLY bad design idea!
4) Putting the battery where it is was a REALLY bad design idea!
5) Putting the fuel cut-off switch in the boot which can't be opened when there's no power is a REALLY stupid design idea!
1. The bolted down bonnet (going on what I was told) is necessary for rigidity.
2. It is pretty easy to get in without power but it takes a couple of mins so I guess not useful in the event of a fire.
3. I love the no handle look personally but take your point.
4. Agreed.
5. See 2. Where do other manufacturers put the fuel cut off switch? I have no idea where it is on any of my cars. Would it make a difference anyway?
Agree with NTEL just had my car serviced at trackvroad and 1 of the advisory's was that the anderson connector needed replacing. Apparantly, it's not the connector contacts corroding that causes the problem it's the cables which go into the top of the connector become corroded and can brake off which leaves a direct live wire without any type of fuse protection swinging around next to all those chassis struts!! A solution of sorts (as suggested by trackvroad) is to fill the top of the anderson connector (where the cables go in) with silicon thus preventing this type of corrosion.
Again as ntel said due too it's location the anderson should be checked regulary.
Again as ntel said due too it's location the anderson should be checked regulary.
Hi,
I would strongly recommend all owners look in their battery area's.. I recently changed my battery and found the cables going into the fuse were frayed (i assume its a fuse, its a black box 12 inches on the positive line)
I`ve wrapped it up and plan to do what Graham Varley done - that is, totally re-cable the battery compartment when she's goes into a warm garage in Janurary.
James
I would strongly recommend all owners look in their battery area's.. I recently changed my battery and found the cables going into the fuse were frayed (i assume its a fuse, its a black box 12 inches on the positive line)
I`ve wrapped it up and plan to do what Graham Varley done - that is, totally re-cable the battery compartment when she's goes into a warm garage in Janurary.
James
KillerJim said:
Hi,
I would strongly recommend all owners look in their battery area's.. I recently changed my battery and found the cables going into the fuse were frayed; plan to do what Graham Varley done - that is, totally re-cable the battery compartment when she's goes into a warm garage in Janurary.
James
Sorry to hear this has happen to another car. I would strongly recommend all owners look in their battery area's.. I recently changed my battery and found the cables going into the fuse were frayed; plan to do what Graham Varley done - that is, totally re-cable the battery compartment when she's goes into a warm garage in Janurary.
James
To stop this happening do this Late Sagaris style mod for Tuscan,Tamora, and most T350's:-
You will need a new 036 Round post battery ( opposite hand from standard battery)
Check the length of the cable that goes around the chassis will be long enough to stretch to the new +ve position
If not it's:- Get a pre-made red cable 40mm2 x 2260mm long with 10mm eyes
The Anderson connector leads maybe be too long so cut these back if you want.
Get any modified or new cables professionaly crimped & soldered to avoid dry joints
Here's mine as fitted to Sagaris, but i have removed surplus cable length since early post photo.
Fit the edges of the battery cover with sponge neoprene seal to reduce water in the compartment
Fit an anderson water tight cover Durite part number 0-431-97 and will with grease to the charge socket to stop rusting up/ shorting etc.
Hope this helps
Check my profile web page for more info
G
Hi Graham,
Can you clarify a few points (might be in your manual but I`ll ask as I`m planning on recabling in about a month)...
J
Can you clarify a few points (might be in your manual but I`ll ask as I`m planning on recabling in about a month)...
VARLEYHYD said:
Check the length of the cable that goes around the chassis will be long enough to stretch to the new +ve position
What do you mean by this? - "goes around the chassis will be long enough to stretch" VARLEYHYD said:
The Anderson connector leads maybe be too long so cut these back if
you want.
Did u remove your Anderson connector or just replace it with a better one?you want.
J
I've seen cars without the rubber protective cover, guess the holding strap has broke at some stage. The cover should be packed with grease to stop corrosion, I know it's very messy especially if you use the connector for charging.
Other point about the insulation is important... TVR main dealers know about it, but some no quite so clued up garages may not be aware when they fit a new battery.
Other known fire issue at the rear can be exhaust to close the bodywork.
Plus of course the airbox backfire issue...I priced up a "Lifeline" system Dupont gas rather than foam or powder( 'cos they can knacker you engine)..about £1k...Mine goes in for a hinged bonnett on the 10th Jan. I've questioned the rigidity (Paul) and its not an issue...but mine will remain bolted in the middle and the catches at the top. Speaking to one of Tuscan designers...and guess what...he wanted the bonnett hinged...but PW insisted on it being bolted. I also carry a socket spanner on the dash shelf, ready just in case.
Other point about the insulation is important... TVR main dealers know about it, but some no quite so clued up garages may not be aware when they fit a new battery.
Other known fire issue at the rear can be exhaust to close the bodywork.
Plus of course the airbox backfire issue...I priced up a "Lifeline" system Dupont gas rather than foam or powder( 'cos they can knacker you engine)..about £1k...Mine goes in for a hinged bonnett on the 10th Jan. I've questioned the rigidity (Paul) and its not an issue...but mine will remain bolted in the middle and the catches at the top. Speaking to one of Tuscan designers...and guess what...he wanted the bonnett hinged...but PW insisted on it being bolted. I also carry a socket spanner on the dash shelf, ready just in case.
Edited by glow worm on Sunday 14th December 17:58
glow worm said:
I've seen cars without the rubber protective cover, guess the holding strap has broke at some stage. The cover should be packed with grease to stop corrosion, I know it's very messy especially if you use the connector for charging.
Other point about the insulation is important... TVR main dealers know about it, but some no quite so clued up garages may not be aware when they fit a new battery.
Other known fire issue at the rear can be exhaust to close the bodywork.
Plus of course the airbox backfire issue...I priced up a "Lifeline" system Dupont gas rather than foam or powder( 'cos they can knacker you engine)..about £1k...Mine goes in for a hinged bonnett on the 10th Jan. I've questioned the rigidity (Paul) and its not an issue...but mine will remain bolted in the middle and the catches at the top. Speaking to one of Tuscan designers...and guess what...he wanted the bonnett hinged...but PW insisted on it being bolted. I also carry a socket spanner on the dash shelf, ready just in case.
who is doing your hinged bonnet ?Other point about the insulation is important... TVR main dealers know about it, but some no quite so clued up garages may not be aware when they fit a new battery.
Other known fire issue at the rear can be exhaust to close the bodywork.
Plus of course the airbox backfire issue...I priced up a "Lifeline" system Dupont gas rather than foam or powder( 'cos they can knacker you engine)..about £1k...Mine goes in for a hinged bonnett on the 10th Jan. I've questioned the rigidity (Paul) and its not an issue...but mine will remain bolted in the middle and the catches at the top. Speaking to one of Tuscan designers...and guess what...he wanted the bonnett hinged...but PW insisted on it being bolted. I also carry a socket spanner on the dash shelf, ready just in case.
Edited by glow worm on Sunday 14th December 17:58
Gassing Station | Tuscan | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff