Almost sold my Tuscan due to poor handling! Fixed for £20!

[Frenchda]

Hi All.
My car is on nitrons, has been set up and weighted at each corner but still suffers from bump steer and a little wandering. If I fitted the spacers would I then need another geo setup?

[JR]

Frenchda said:

Hi All.
My car is on nitrons, has been set up and weighted at each corner but still suffers from bump steer and a little wandering. If I fitted the spacers would I then need another geo setup?

You will if you want the car to have the best set up: http://white-smoke.wetpaint.com/page/Steering+Geom...

[MPETT]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you need to adjust anything on the suspension. The relationship between the hubs and the suspension arms are not changed. The mod simply pushes the wheel away from the hub 3mm and restores the correc wheel/kingpin alignment.

Cheers,
Martin

[JR]

MPETT said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you need to adjust anything on the suspension. The relationship between the hubs and the suspension arms are not changed. The mod simply pushes the wheel away from the hub 3mm and restores the correc wheel/kingpin alignment.

Cheers,
Martin

One can't have it both ways. If the suspension was set up for the optimal setting without spacers then it will not be the optimal setting with spacers and v-v. OK, there's not a lot in it but if you took that attitude then you'd not fit the spacers...

[Andy Pandie]

Spoke to Jason at Str8six this morning about this very subject as I haven't got my spacers yet, and the reply was that the standard (factory) setup wouldn't need altering afterwards. I think it's more important to have a good setup either done before or after fitting to get the best from the spacers.

[TVRMARKUB]

TUS 2 CON said:

TVRMARKUB said:

Interesting thread, I've never been a fan of TVR power steering units and all the TVR's i've owned and driven with P/S have been twichy at speed with crap feedback from the front tyres.

My Griff 500 without P/s is just the opposite and gives great feedback and feels very planted at high speed.

I wasn't 100% happy with the feedback from the Sagaris, I changed the dampers and springs (Nitrons/Eibach) and had the car set up properly by TvR and I still wasn't happy, took the car to the Nurburgring for a week and had a nightmare on track with no confidence in the car at all, (my Sag was 40sec BTG slower than times I do in the 500 in damp conditions).

Ended up just pulling the P/s relay in the Sag and it transformed how it felt, no longer twichy at high speed and now it gives great feedback through the front tyres. Car now feels so much better over 100mph and the steering isn't that much heavier than the 500 which runs 225 front tyres.

Does this mean you could rig up a switch to only turn on the power steering when you need it (ie when parking) ?

I'm sure something could be designed/made so you could do that, all I will say it's made my Sagaris experience 100% better driving without the P/s aid interfering with the steering, though i'm use to non p/s with my 500 so i'm not sure it will be for everybody but at high speed it feels so so so much better.

[MPETT]

JR said:

MPETT said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you need to adjust anything on the suspension. The relationship between the hubs and the suspension arms are not changed. The mod simply pushes the wheel away from the hub 3mm and restores the correc wheel/kingpin alignment.

Cheers,
Martin

One can't have it both ways. If the suspension was set up for the optimal setting without spacers then it will not be the optimal setting with spacers and v-v. OK, there's not a lot in it but if you took that attitude then you'd not fit the spacers...

I'm no race engineer, but from what I've read about suspension I doubt you'd get much from redoing the geo again. The wheels were aligned relative to each other/the chassis and that won't change by widening the front track by an equal amount on both sides. The rear wheels are pointing inwards by X degrees relative to the front wheels and the front wheels toe in / camber will not change due to spacers.
Any race engineers wish to set the record straight and quote their personal experience?
Cheers

[JR]

MPETT said:

JR said:

MPETT said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you need to adjust anything on the suspension. The relationship between the hubs and the suspension arms are not changed. The mod simply pushes the wheel away from the hub 3mm and restores the correc wheel/kingpin alignment.

Cheers,
Martin

One can't have it both ways. If the suspension was set up for the optimal setting without spacers then it will not be the optimal setting with spacers and v-v. OK, there's not a lot in it but if you took that attitude then you'd not fit the spacers...

I'm no race engineer, but from what I've read about suspension I doubt you'd get much from redoing the geo again. The wheels were aligned relative to each other/the chassis and that won't change by widening the front track by an equal amount on both sides. The rear wheels are pointing inwards by X degrees relative to the front wheels and the front wheels toe in / camber will not change due to spacers.
Any race engineers wish to set the record straight and quote their personal experience?
Cheers

Did you click on the link above? You're altering the scrub radius.

[MPETT]

Just read it, and it follows what I said, in that the spacers shouldn't affect the rest of the geo, it makes the scrub angle correct/ as TVR intended/designed the suspension originally.

[JR]

MPETT said:

Just read it, and it follows what I said, in that the spacers shouldn't affect the rest of the geo, it makes the scrub angle correct/ as TVR intended/designed the suspension originally.

If you had the original suspension settings for 16" wheels and then changed to spacers + 18" wheels then you'd be OK (minimal tweeks aside due to differing stiffness of the tyre sidewalls) but you'd like to think that most people with 18" wheels will have had their geo set to the optimal setting for 18" wheels which is not the same as for 16" wheels due to the differing ET which affects scrub rad etc.

[Full SP]

I think I can answer the question:
If you fit the spacers without any other changes, the improvement is significant. Fitting the spacers will affect the geo slightly but barely more than the tolerance of the settings so it is not necessary to reset geo after you fit the spacers (assuming the geo was good before). Setting the geo with the spacers fitted is of course the ideal solution if you want perfection.

[Lucozade]

Very interested in the spacers. But unfortunately at my last service I had all tyres changed AND without knowing the outlet fitted 255s all round.

The question is: will the spacers make any difference to the twitchy handling without swapping the fronts for 235?

Must say I'm still not happy with the setup of my Gaz Gold having had them done 3 times now but 2 difference places. Front and rear bottom out too often and it bounces around uncontrollably.

[s6boy]

OK geo checked and found not to need adjustment, this was important as I wanted to do a direct comparison with and without spacers as I can't see the point comparing a car with revised geo AND spacers because you wouldn't know where any improvement had come from.

Spacers fitted by slightly doubting mechanic (thanks Matt ) and he took the first test drive, came back slightly surprised that he could feel an improvement. So off back home over 30 miles and I'm afraid I couldn't feel any improvement on fen roads or dual carriageway at all. I have 235/40 front and 255/35 rear and it has always tracked well and not seemed overly sensitive to bump steer. However when on familiar roads nearer home what I did find was that cornering had completely changed. I've always had just a touch of understeer and also unless completely smooth have needed to make slight corrections mid bend, now however you choose your line and that's the way you go with a lot of confidence and much more speed as a consequence smooth or bumpy.

Over all happy and impressed.

A bit of advice given would be to re-torque the wheels after a while as the spacers are aluminium and may compress a little - I guess not very likely over 3mm but better safe than sorry!


Flintstone if it helps my Gaz Gold Pros' are set at 11 front and rear. If you're hitting the stops could it be you're springs need replacing and it's not the dampers?

ETA: Insurance informed and happy that this is an improvement and not performance enhancing so no hike in premium.

Edited by s6boy on Wednesday 25th August 13:42

[Full SP]

Lucozade said:

The question is: will the spacers make any difference to the twitchy handling without swapping the fronts for 235?

Based on the feedback I have received (and on here) I can summarise by saying that the improvement is most significant with the 235/40 tyres but that it still helps a lot on 255/35 tyres (the 255/35 tyres tend to lead to a tramlining effect because of the tyre width alone).

s6boy said:

A bit of advice given would be to re-torque the wheels after a while as the spacers are aluminium and may compress a little - I guess not very likely over 3mm but better safe than sorry!

It's not a bad move to recheck your wheel nuts whenever they've been removed but the spacers shouldn't make any difference - they are lazer cut from extruded plate so are actually a more resilient material than the wheels themselves, so won't really compress. By fitting the spacers you are however introducing an extra mating face that, unless perfectly clean, could lead to loss of wheel stud tension in initial service. The fitting instructions advise on getting mating faces clean so as long as this advice is followed retorquing is not necessary. Nevertheless, I'm not going to contradict the notion of "better safe than sorry".

[shortlad]

Just thought I would add my experiences here.

I've owned my TVR Tuscan Mk I 2000 W reg for 3½ years and I'm on the verge of selling it not becasue I don't like it or the 'interesting' handling (now sorted) but just feel it's time to move on.

God I wish I had found these spacers when I got my car not 3½ years later (not sure how I missed this thread!!).

When I got my car it was very very twitchy. I found a number of things that have got it to the point it's at today and I'll list these as they're worth looking into on your own car.

First off. I had odd tyres on the front of my car so matched them with the same make and new so wear was even (all 4 tyres are matched). Felt an improvement.

The breaks were next. The front disks and pads were replaced as the off side was dragging and had worn unevenly. Felt yet another improvement.

Next Tyre Pressures. I read a lot on here about this subject and played around until I found something that worked for me and my car (which changed a little when the next stage was done).

Next suspension. The car went to Derek for some Gaz Gold fully adjustables. And wow what a differentce this made and I guess it should as was the most expensive bit to do. Derek set my car up by 'feeling' the set up by test driving and fine tuning it. Felt a big improvement.

This brings me to today and about 2 years after all of the above. My car was much much better than the day I got it but the spacers were the cherry on the cake for my car.

The car now handles the way I wanted it to 3½ years ago. It's not modern stable like my new shape Audi TT but then I would never expect it to be. But there's much more stability which is noticeable when at speed and under breaking, it just holds its line better.

I wish I had the money and the knowledge to have done all of this when I got the car 3½ years ago but I guess half the fun I've had with the car is the journey I've been on with it.

I guess I'm not too un-happy as I know when I sell it the new owner will have a car with all the oily bits sorted and a car that handles the way it should.

If you have a Tuscan my opinion is you should at least try these as for the cost it could make you feel more comfy behind the wheel. If they don't work for you/your car I'm sure you'd sell them on eBay no problems.

I hope this helps.

[Hotwheels.]

I'd still not got round to fitting the spacers to my truly terrifyingly bad handling Tuscan, then an engineer at Automedon identified a siezed top ball joint and a burst front and rear shocker. All were replaced and i can now drive at any speed over any surface or bumps with just two fingers holding the wheel, instead of the two white knuckle fists from before...it's truly transformed the car. And i agree about the power steering, it completely ruins the 'drive' of the car, so, so much better without it, i can really feel the road, although slow manouvres are a pain in the arse, but thats a small price to pay.

[dvs_dave]

Hotwheels. said:

.......a siezed top ball joint and a burst front and rear shocker.

Any car in that condition would handle in a terrifying fashion! How did it get into such a state and for how long was it in such a dangerous condition?

[Avalanche]

+1 please YHM

[Hotwheels.]

dvs_dave said:

Hotwheels. said:

.......a siezed top ball joint and a burst front and rear shocker.

Any car in that condition would handle in a terrifying fashion! How did it get into such a state and for how long was it in such a dangerous condition?

It had been off the road for 20 months or so until i sent it in for some work. When i got it back to run it in it was all over the place. Took it back to have some minor jobs sorted, replaced the shocks an hey presto, a normal handling car!

[iain25tuscan]

Just to add my ten pence worth,

Fitted the spacers yesterday to my 2001 4.0 non S but red rose and they are simply amazing!!! Had nitrons fitted last year and have the "S" front spoiler but the car still felt very twitchy over anything but glass smooth tarmac. The spacers have literally transformed the car to being hugely stable at any speed and provides so much more confidence when pressing on that I have fallen in love with it all over again

I carried out a days testing over different private roads at up to 145 leptons and it is just rock stable to the point you can loosely grip the wheel instead of hanging on for dear life. Brake feel is also much improved as the car is now not squirming all over the road under heavy braking.

Top marks to Silverstone Performance.

Would there be any benefit to fitting a set to the rear wheels as well? any thoughts guys?

A very happy tuscan owner