No-one wants to buy Tuscans any more?!
Discussion
LucyP said:
And that applies to Zeb74's post about continental europe too. The steering wheel is on the wrong side of the car. The export market and red tape are irrelevant. The OP's car won't sell outside of the UK, and it never would have done. Brexit, Covid, climate change, Donald Trump, or whatever possible cause that might be raised are all nonsense. Only the UK market matters for these cars.
Maybe you can't easily to switch from a RHD to a LHD, but some can. I have 2 RHD cars, here on the continent, which for me are even easier to drive on the narrow mountain roads where I live. But you don't have to trust me and your opinion is already set in stone as usual.
In the French TVR Car Club, 80% of the cars are RHD and we are satisfied with that.
Caddyshack said:
Jurgen Schmidt said:
Is it the blue one on PH at £35k with only 3 photos?
If so, that’s the reason why you’re getting no enquiries in my opinion
Surely if you want one you would see the 3 pics and either ask for more or go and see it? If so, that’s the reason why you’re getting no enquiries in my opinion
I bought a Cerbera when they were new but have not really looked at TVRs much since, I was amazed that a Tuscan would be £35k…I guessed around £20k.
As in almost every other area of life, If you want someone to buy your product/you want their money then you have to work for it, it's not the buyer to pursue you for basic info.
Hi,
If indeed it is the £35k car with the FFF head. I did look at the car.
In the end I avoided any straight 6 cars, for me the engine doesn’t give enough immediate kick, but then goes too fast! So a personal thing.
Ref this car. It is a good car, I would say worth £35k. I looked at it when it was £40k.
The advert definitely needs making more professional. This is off putting even though you can ask for more photos. All photos should be landscape, plus in a good backdrop, not the drive way. Drive it to a grassy place or a stately home. Always include interior shots and underneath shots. Why leave questions unanswered?
Then focus on the driving pleasure and the reliability in the text. With some mention of the careful and no expense spared maintenance.
For me personally, the car was a little over modified, no cats is worrying and after market control system. I suspected the driving pleasure had been sacrificed for ultimate power. I want a car that drives nicely at 2000rpm.
Plus, on viewing I would detail the car better. It could be better presented.
A view from a buyer, remember the buyer's view can’t be wrong, it is what is perceived. It might be wrong in fact, but it is the impression that folks make decisions on.
I would take down the ad, redo all the photos, reword and replace in car and classic.
Good luck with it.
If indeed it is the £35k car with the FFF head. I did look at the car.
In the end I avoided any straight 6 cars, for me the engine doesn’t give enough immediate kick, but then goes too fast! So a personal thing.
Ref this car. It is a good car, I would say worth £35k. I looked at it when it was £40k.
The advert definitely needs making more professional. This is off putting even though you can ask for more photos. All photos should be landscape, plus in a good backdrop, not the drive way. Drive it to a grassy place or a stately home. Always include interior shots and underneath shots. Why leave questions unanswered?
Then focus on the driving pleasure and the reliability in the text. With some mention of the careful and no expense spared maintenance.
For me personally, the car was a little over modified, no cats is worrying and after market control system. I suspected the driving pleasure had been sacrificed for ultimate power. I want a car that drives nicely at 2000rpm.
Plus, on viewing I would detail the car better. It could be better presented.
A view from a buyer, remember the buyer's view can’t be wrong, it is what is perceived. It might be wrong in fact, but it is the impression that folks make decisions on.
I would take down the ad, redo all the photos, reword and replace in car and classic.
Good luck with it.
The problem with this thread is that we are guessing which car it is!
I thought it was the car for sale at Selby TVR. I am sure that was for sale last October, because I included it in a discussion on here. I thought it was about £25K then, so has the price been down, then up, then down again?
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/15104632
It isn't a trade sale, in spite of what the listing says. They are selling it as agent for the seller. It isn't their car. Therefore it will be the same as a private sale insofar as any redress is concerned. If the engine goes bang 2 miles down the road after purchase, that is the new owner's problem.
And then there is this one which is a private sale:
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14475264
Then this one:
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14291206
All a similar age, and colour. The 1st two are a similar mileage. The last one is much higher, is the only true trade sale, but I doubt that it has one of the first 3 Red Rose engines. There was no S in 2000, just a standard car but with 18 inch Spiders, not 16, drilled brake discs, and the "uprated" engine. "Red Rose" written in black marker pen on the cam cover to tell you so! They were delivering them to customers via dealers from at least June 2000, so the 1st 3 will have been 2000 cars.
£27K -v- £35K -v- £45K.
Which do you buy?
I thought it was the car for sale at Selby TVR. I am sure that was for sale last October, because I included it in a discussion on here. I thought it was about £25K then, so has the price been down, then up, then down again?
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/15104632
It isn't a trade sale, in spite of what the listing says. They are selling it as agent for the seller. It isn't their car. Therefore it will be the same as a private sale insofar as any redress is concerned. If the engine goes bang 2 miles down the road after purchase, that is the new owner's problem.
And then there is this one which is a private sale:
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14475264
Then this one:
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14291206
All a similar age, and colour. The 1st two are a similar mileage. The last one is much higher, is the only true trade sale, but I doubt that it has one of the first 3 Red Rose engines. There was no S in 2000, just a standard car but with 18 inch Spiders, not 16, drilled brake discs, and the "uprated" engine. "Red Rose" written in black marker pen on the cam cover to tell you so! They were delivering them to customers via dealers from at least June 2000, so the 1st 3 will have been 2000 cars.
£27K -v- £35K -v- £45K.
Which do you buy?
The seller basically said it was this one (in a post now deleted) https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/15151531
Thank you, and yes we do need to know which vehicle isn't selling, to judge whether it's the market or the vehicle or both.
As others have said, the advert is terrible. It also seems to fail the MOT on emissions every year, before it then passes. And the killer blow, it hasn't even done 2000 miles in 10 years. Never mind the Covid year, one year it didn't even do 30 miles between MOT's. Between the last 5 MOT's it has done 160 miles!
As others have said, the advert is terrible. It also seems to fail the MOT on emissions every year, before it then passes. And the killer blow, it hasn't even done 2000 miles in 10 years. Never mind the Covid year, one year it didn't even do 30 miles between MOT's. Between the last 5 MOT's it has done 160 miles!
glow worm said:
The thing that surprises me is that the OPs only 3 posts on PH are when he tries to sell the car on Pistonheads 
PH is a commercial place to be at times, no surprise there! When I sold my 3 MK2s and a Convertible (all non S) to the dealers either as a trade in for another TVR or bought outright for a speedy hassle free sale they paid low to mid £20ks which was fair enough as they needed a small amount of prep work to the leather/paint etc to bring up to a good standard for resale. The price of this one taking into account the recent discount to £35k is still a lot to ask from a private buyer without a warranty especially with a non standard aftermarket head fitted although it does look like a well cared for example.
Out of interest how much was the dealer asking for on a SOR commission basis? 20 to 30% ?
Good luck with the sale
Englishman said:
The seller basically said it was this one (in a post now deleted) https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/15151531
I'm glad you also saw his post ... I thought I was dreaming it 
Englishman said:
The seller basically said it was this one (in a post now deleted) https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/15151531
The car looks great and well priced. However it's a lazy add. Like others said make it personal but professional.The photos need to be more and better. Show the details.
Put the full description in. List all the history.
Date - Mileage - Works
etc etc
Zeb74 said:
I don't know if this may affect prices in the UK, however, after brexit, exporting a car is now more complicated and expensive.
And, in France (at least), registering a TVR (with less than 30 years) is now almost impossible, the administration is totally crazy.
If you, British citizens, travel for weeks around the country with your TVR, everyone is happy. But if you want to register it in France, suddenly the car becomes dangerous and too noisy... (and this is not easier elsewhere)
While moving cars out of Britain may seem like a shame, it could help to avoid prices to drop down.
i can confirm this for Gemany and Italy as well. And, in France (at least), registering a TVR (with less than 30 years) is now almost impossible, the administration is totally crazy.
If you, British citizens, travel for weeks around the country with your TVR, everyone is happy. But if you want to register it in France, suddenly the car becomes dangerous and too noisy... (and this is not easier elsewhere)
While moving cars out of Britain may seem like a shame, it could help to avoid prices to drop down.
and per-Brexit, Germany was one of the countries which imported a lot of cars from UK. (e.g. Lotus,TVR, Kitcars etc)
post-Brexit this import market came to a complete stop. mainly for the additional costs, the increased prices in UK and the stagnating prices for such niche-cars in the EU. En Top the homologation /re-registration rules became stricter and stricter...mainly due to noise and emmissions.
but all those rules didnt came suddenly....the groundwork for the laws, that have now come into force, was laid years ago. however, the population was not informed by the mass media. it was only when it was too late for objections or protests, that things became public. as always, the people are sleeping too much.
after 3y of panedmic-lies we should have learned:
Mass-Media is not telling you the truth or lets say: provide neutral and comprehensive information
Politicians, whatever coleur, are lying. their actions serve only to maintain their power.
question everything you have learned.
information is a debt to be collected, not a debt to be brought.
The world seems to work very differently than we are led to believe.
Mobile Chicane said:
The bottom's fallen out of the classic car market.
Yes, I think this is a wider problem than Tuscan's. Sorry about this story on a TVR page, but I bought a LHD E type Jag 18 months with the explicit aim of touring Europe. I did that this summer (over 5,000 miles completed). I am now looking at selling and I would suggest prices have dropped by over 20% in the intervening period. I suspect the "cost of living crisis" has made everyone (even those relatively well off) a little more cautious.
No it hasn't. It's just that you can't sell everything now, or for a silly price. It's just that the market knows what it wants and what it doesn't, and it's ever evolving. What it wants still commands top money.
And as always it's classic Fords and Porsches.
Look at the Iconic Auctioneers sale at Silverstone (formerly Silverstone Auctions). Some stuff didn't sell, but plenty did.
£132,250 including buyer's premium for a 1989 911 SC Targa with under 9k miles.
£94,443 inc. BP. for a 1983 911 3.3 Turbo barn find.
£547,160 inc. BP for a 1998 ex McRae Impreza 22B
Some Red Bull fan paid more than double the price of a standard used 2013 RenaultSport Megane Cup, for the 300 miles and RB stickers!
But if only the original buyer had bought a 2003 RS Focus instead. 16K miles, not 300, 10 years older and nearly double the price.
£40,752 inc. BP for a 1972 Ford Escort Mexico.
And as I said, the market changes. Remember when you couldn't give an XJS away?
£24,917 inc. BP for a 1993 V12 convertible with 32K on the clock.
Yet only £22,856 inc. BP for a 2000 DB7 V12 with 46K. And basically that is a much better looking XJS, with a much more powerful engine and much more modern engine.
And as always it's classic Fords and Porsches.
Look at the Iconic Auctioneers sale at Silverstone (formerly Silverstone Auctions). Some stuff didn't sell, but plenty did.
£132,250 including buyer's premium for a 1989 911 SC Targa with under 9k miles.
£94,443 inc. BP. for a 1983 911 3.3 Turbo barn find.
£547,160 inc. BP for a 1998 ex McRae Impreza 22B
Some Red Bull fan paid more than double the price of a standard used 2013 RenaultSport Megane Cup, for the 300 miles and RB stickers!
But if only the original buyer had bought a 2003 RS Focus instead. 16K miles, not 300, 10 years older and nearly double the price.
£40,752 inc. BP for a 1972 Ford Escort Mexico.
And as I said, the market changes. Remember when you couldn't give an XJS away?
£24,917 inc. BP for a 1993 V12 convertible with 32K on the clock.
Yet only £22,856 inc. BP for a 2000 DB7 V12 with 46K. And basically that is a much better looking XJS, with a much more powerful engine and much more modern engine.
10 or 12 years ago when I had a Tuscan, it was a reasonably convincing sell. For 15 to 20k you got a car that did 0 - 60 in 4.5 seconds, albeit in a straight line.
Fast forward 10 years, the performance usp has gone and 35k gets you into a lot of decent and much more capable cars, which are far more useable. Things like the M2 competition, and recent incarnations of the boxster simply offer a lot more, and are far more usable, reducing the pool of potential buyers.
On top of all of that cheap finance has disappeared, certainly for now, reducing that pool of potential “buyers” even further.
The reality maybe, that there is simply an over supply at the moment at the prices the cars are being offered at.
Fast forward 10 years, the performance usp has gone and 35k gets you into a lot of decent and much more capable cars, which are far more useable. Things like the M2 competition, and recent incarnations of the boxster simply offer a lot more, and are far more usable, reducing the pool of potential buyers.
On top of all of that cheap finance has disappeared, certainly for now, reducing that pool of potential “buyers” even further.
The reality maybe, that there is simply an over supply at the moment at the prices the cars are being offered at.
Edited by m4tti on Wednesday 6th September 13:50
You have to think why is it that classic Fords are the ticket at the moment given that they weren’t absolutely fantastic at any stage and are ridiculous compared to anything modern.
The answer is in the demographics of the buyers imho.
They may be early retirees with a few bob to spend on the stuff they lusted after as youngsters.
And of course most examples have rusted away tae f
k.
I think TVRs will have one more time in the sun, but it will be when most have disappeared and the kids who had posters of them on bedroom walls hit their 50s.
The answer is in the demographics of the buyers imho.
They may be early retirees with a few bob to spend on the stuff they lusted after as youngsters.
And of course most examples have rusted away tae f
k.I think TVRs will have one more time in the sun, but it will be when most have disappeared and the kids who had posters of them on bedroom walls hit their 50s.
swisstoni has a point.
Fast Fords have always had a following, even from new. Remember the Escort RS1600i. 99% the same as an XR3, but dare you say that to an RS1600i owner, or even suggest that the XR3i was actually faster. 115 bhp. 0-60 in 8.7 and 118 mph it wasn't even very fast in period, and one from 1983 sold this year at auction with 54K on the clock in the predictable mint condition for £53,750. Cost new in '83? £6,700.
And classic Fords just keep rising. This article is from 2018. It quotes a 2.8i Capri at £9-11K. A "mothballed" unrestored but recommissioned example with 14k on the clock went through Iconic Auctions at Silverstone last month at £45,281 inc. buyers premium.
The Sierra Cosworths went through at about double what the article quotes. That's quite a rise in value in 5 years.
https://www.retromotor.co.uk/features/expensive-fa...
TVR just doesn't seem to have that following any more. You go to retro events and there will be a field full of MG's, another full of Triumphs and another of Lotus'. And there will be one Grantura.
And at the moment, a Griffith is more of a classic TVR than a Tuscan. More classic, sound and looks wise. It's much simpler. The parts are easier to source and it's cheaper to run.
Fast Fords have always had a following, even from new. Remember the Escort RS1600i. 99% the same as an XR3, but dare you say that to an RS1600i owner, or even suggest that the XR3i was actually faster. 115 bhp. 0-60 in 8.7 and 118 mph it wasn't even very fast in period, and one from 1983 sold this year at auction with 54K on the clock in the predictable mint condition for £53,750. Cost new in '83? £6,700.
And classic Fords just keep rising. This article is from 2018. It quotes a 2.8i Capri at £9-11K. A "mothballed" unrestored but recommissioned example with 14k on the clock went through Iconic Auctions at Silverstone last month at £45,281 inc. buyers premium.
The Sierra Cosworths went through at about double what the article quotes. That's quite a rise in value in 5 years.
https://www.retromotor.co.uk/features/expensive-fa...
TVR just doesn't seem to have that following any more. You go to retro events and there will be a field full of MG's, another full of Triumphs and another of Lotus'. And there will be one Grantura.
And at the moment, a Griffith is more of a classic TVR than a Tuscan. More classic, sound and looks wise. It's much simpler. The parts are easier to source and it's cheaper to run.
Lots of interesting comments guys and I don't usually comment but here's my experience. I need Tuscans, especially Mk1s with rebuilds. I have clients still searching for cars. It can take a long time to sell or sometimes just day. Values are still going up as the availability and condition with many being restored improve. Buyers have been scared to death by the negativity on these forums so want a car that's fully warrantied and not just an insurance company style policy.
There are 38% less TVRs for sale now than 6 years ago but the medias like FB in which they appear has rocketed creating a false illusion more are available.
Tuscans should be commanding prices way above the current £30-35k for a rebuiit good MK1. Modifications will make a car Marmite. That doesn't always mean it's worth less just it may take longer to find the right buyer.
The market is bouyant for both private and trade sellers, we just don't always hear from them on the forums. ??
There are 38% less TVRs for sale now than 6 years ago but the medias like FB in which they appear has rocketed creating a false illusion more are available.
Tuscans should be commanding prices way above the current £30-35k for a rebuiit good MK1. Modifications will make a car Marmite. That doesn't always mean it's worth less just it may take longer to find the right buyer.
The market is bouyant for both private and trade sellers, we just don't always hear from them on the forums. ??
Edited by mcosh on Thursday 7th September 07:47
Edited by mcosh on Thursday 7th September 07:49
Gassing Station | Tuscan | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff