New Samuri Owner
Discussion
Hi folks, I'm the new and proud owner of Jago Samuri. I drove it home after purchase, but it needs some work for the MOT and for my peace of mind. So I was hoping for a little help, info and advice if possible. Firstly its Tax free - which is great - but also means its built from very old components.
Priority 1, brake upgrade. It has the massive wide tyres and a Ford 1600GT engine, but DRUM brakes all around and took some serious pedal stomping to stop the thing! Not sure if its got a servo, will check tomorrow. So, how easy is it to fit Disc brake Mcpherson struts? - anybody got any?
Priority 2, dynamo (22 amp). Would like to upgrade to and alternator. How easy is this to do? - I have one of those.
Priority 3, steering. Its fitted with a minute mini steering wheel and needs some serious muscle to turn those big tyres. Ok, bigger steering wheel, but has anyone fitted power steering? If so from where and how difficult?
Priority 4, its a lead petrol engine. Other than having a new cylinder head, can anyone recommend an additive to stop the valve seat recession that is really known to work?
Finally, who is best for historic/kitcar insurance?
That's it for now, appreciate any forthcoming help and hope to see some of you around at shows in the near future. Gary (sg.hands1@btinternet.com)
Priority 1, brake upgrade. It has the massive wide tyres and a Ford 1600GT engine, but DRUM brakes all around and took some serious pedal stomping to stop the thing! Not sure if its got a servo, will check tomorrow. So, how easy is it to fit Disc brake Mcpherson struts? - anybody got any?
Priority 2, dynamo (22 amp). Would like to upgrade to and alternator. How easy is this to do? - I have one of those.
Priority 3, steering. Its fitted with a minute mini steering wheel and needs some serious muscle to turn those big tyres. Ok, bigger steering wheel, but has anyone fitted power steering? If so from where and how difficult?
Priority 4, its a lead petrol engine. Other than having a new cylinder head, can anyone recommend an additive to stop the valve seat recession that is really known to work?
Finally, who is best for historic/kitcar insurance?
That's it for now, appreciate any forthcoming help and hope to see some of you around at shows in the near future. Gary (sg.hands1@btinternet.com)
Hi Ballbearing and let me be the first to welcome you to the joys of Jago ownership.
Tech sec will probably give better advice than I can on the tech queries, but I will put in my two pence worth.
The upgrade to disc brakes is relatively easy - probably you would be best off fitting Capri struts and discs. However you do not want to fit a servo - they are really a no no in lightweight kitcars and are not recomended by the manufacturers (don't forget even F1 cars do not have servo systems). So you will just have to get used to pushing the pedal harder.
Personally I would not consider power steering - I prefer to feel the steering.
Get hold of an Escort Mk1 / Mk2 Haynes manual this will answer most of your questions. If you can read a wiring diagram you should be able to work out how to convert from dynamo to altenator. - Don't forget you will probably be changing polarity from positive earth to Negative earth - so watch out if you have a radio fitted. - all modern radios are negative earth.
Visit the tech site - www.httpjoctecwebfutureeasyspace.com/home.htm
You will find loads more info.
I don't know what to recomend for leaded fuel addative I suspect they are all much of a muchness.
Insurance phone around and see who quotes what. - I saw the other day Tescos are doing kitcar insurance.
Have fun enjoy yourself and the joys of a jago. Hope all this helps - don't forget to join the owners club.
Tech sec will probably give better advice than I can on the tech queries, but I will put in my two pence worth.
The upgrade to disc brakes is relatively easy - probably you would be best off fitting Capri struts and discs. However you do not want to fit a servo - they are really a no no in lightweight kitcars and are not recomended by the manufacturers (don't forget even F1 cars do not have servo systems). So you will just have to get used to pushing the pedal harder.
Personally I would not consider power steering - I prefer to feel the steering.
Get hold of an Escort Mk1 / Mk2 Haynes manual this will answer most of your questions. If you can read a wiring diagram you should be able to work out how to convert from dynamo to altenator. - Don't forget you will probably be changing polarity from positive earth to Negative earth - so watch out if you have a radio fitted. - all modern radios are negative earth.
Visit the tech site - www.httpjoctecwebfutureeasyspace.com/home.htm
You will find loads more info.
I don't know what to recomend for leaded fuel addative I suspect they are all much of a muchness.
Insurance phone around and see who quotes what. - I saw the other day Tescos are doing kitcar insurance.
Have fun enjoy yourself and the joys of a jago. Hope all this helps - don't forget to join the owners club.
Another thought on steering etc.
Basically you have a 35 year old vehicle. The wide wheels on the front not only make the steering very heavy, but also put incredible stresses on the steering / suspension components. Especiall the Track Control Arm bushes.
A solution would be to fit narrower tyres say 185 or 190 on the front, this would reduce the stress on the steering components and also make the steering a lot lighter.
Incidentally if the front bushes are shot I would strongly consider replacing them with Polyurethane bushes. This will make the front end stiffer - improving roadholding - and they are more durable.
Basically you have a 35 year old vehicle. The wide wheels on the front not only make the steering very heavy, but also put incredible stresses on the steering / suspension components. Especiall the Track Control Arm bushes.
A solution would be to fit narrower tyres say 185 or 190 on the front, this would reduce the stress on the steering components and also make the steering a lot lighter.
Incidentally if the front bushes are shot I would strongly consider replacing them with Polyurethane bushes. This will make the front end stiffer - improving roadholding - and they are more durable.
Hi Ballbearing,
firstly re: the brakes. Your drum braked system is likely to be a single circuit set up which is to say the least a bit dodgy. Start from scratch with the capri struts as suggested, new brake lines, dual circuit master cylinder and a servo. The Sammie can use a servo as it is roughly the same weight as the donor escort.
Dynamo to Alternator conversions are as Jon says another swapover of parts and ensuring that polarity sensitive equipment is correctly connected.
With regards to the tyres many Geep and Samuri owners fit HUGE tyres to 15" wheels. But yes, they will increase stress on the suspension and steering. My Geep runs 14r 185 tyres and copes well with a small steering wheel. Jons suggestion of 185 tyres is a good one & if 15" wheels, maybe a lower profile would suit.
Leaded petrol - Tonka recommends 4-star which is still occasionally available, as is LRP from Sainsburys. At the end of the day though its an old engine which has run for some time on unleaded so if using LRP or additives, be aware that the damage may already have been done.
Insurance??? Most of us use Adrian Flux who gives JOC Members a discount - the forms are in your Inbox!
Enjoy your new buy & hope to see it at the shows when its up and running.
Yours,
Swizz...Club Sec'
firstly re: the brakes. Your drum braked system is likely to be a single circuit set up which is to say the least a bit dodgy. Start from scratch with the capri struts as suggested, new brake lines, dual circuit master cylinder and a servo. The Sammie can use a servo as it is roughly the same weight as the donor escort.
Dynamo to Alternator conversions are as Jon says another swapover of parts and ensuring that polarity sensitive equipment is correctly connected.
With regards to the tyres many Geep and Samuri owners fit HUGE tyres to 15" wheels. But yes, they will increase stress on the suspension and steering. My Geep runs 14r 185 tyres and copes well with a small steering wheel. Jons suggestion of 185 tyres is a good one & if 15" wheels, maybe a lower profile would suit.
Leaded petrol - Tonka recommends 4-star which is still occasionally available, as is LRP from Sainsburys. At the end of the day though its an old engine which has run for some time on unleaded so if using LRP or additives, be aware that the damage may already have been done.
Insurance??? Most of us use Adrian Flux who gives JOC Members a discount - the forms are in your Inbox!
Enjoy your new buy & hope to see it at the shows when its up and running.
Yours,
Swizz...Club Sec'
Many thanks for the superfast reply Jon. I'll be getting my first chance to have a good look over the vehicle today.
I will phone around for insurance quotes then - I just thought there might be some preference to a certain company by Jago owners.
The big tyres have loads of tread on them, so I won't be changing them until there worn. Then I'm going down a few widths. They do make the car look good, but as you say I expect they do put unnecessary strain on the steering, make it over-heavy... and cost a fortune.
Why are servos a no no Jon? I thought a Samuri weighed about the same as the original escort!
It had been standing for some time but a new battery had it quickly started. A real pig to drive home tho' as there was loads of muck in the petrol, the carb was continually being blocked, and it was idling at around 2000rpm! It did clear somewhat over the later part of the journey home, revs came down a bit and I had the car up to 40mph (at least that's what the speedo said - my sister following said I was actually doing 55mph!) So carb off today and cleaned.
The car was supplied with a haynes manual for a Ford Cortina MK2E, which I thought was a little strange as I thought all Sam's were Escort based - maybe it's just the engine that's from the old Cortina. Is it possible to tell from the engine number... if I can find it?
I don't know if anyone knows the history of my Samuri, I bought it from an RAF serviceman (actually had to pick it up from RAF Cottesmore).
The hard top Samuri has been resprayed all black with gold flecks - and really does look the part - but was originally burgundy. Also, as far as I know it's the only TAX-FREE Samuri... unless anyone knows better!
It would be nice if I could determine it's full history, particularly the first owner.
Anyway, will leave it there for now until I've had a proper look over the vehicle later today.
Thanks again. Gary
I will phone around for insurance quotes then - I just thought there might be some preference to a certain company by Jago owners.
The big tyres have loads of tread on them, so I won't be changing them until there worn. Then I'm going down a few widths. They do make the car look good, but as you say I expect they do put unnecessary strain on the steering, make it over-heavy... and cost a fortune.
Why are servos a no no Jon? I thought a Samuri weighed about the same as the original escort!
It had been standing for some time but a new battery had it quickly started. A real pig to drive home tho' as there was loads of muck in the petrol, the carb was continually being blocked, and it was idling at around 2000rpm! It did clear somewhat over the later part of the journey home, revs came down a bit and I had the car up to 40mph (at least that's what the speedo said - my sister following said I was actually doing 55mph!) So carb off today and cleaned.
The car was supplied with a haynes manual for a Ford Cortina MK2E, which I thought was a little strange as I thought all Sam's were Escort based - maybe it's just the engine that's from the old Cortina. Is it possible to tell from the engine number... if I can find it?
I don't know if anyone knows the history of my Samuri, I bought it from an RAF serviceman (actually had to pick it up from RAF Cottesmore).
The hard top Samuri has been resprayed all black with gold flecks - and really does look the part - but was originally burgundy. Also, as far as I know it's the only TAX-FREE Samuri... unless anyone knows better!
It would be nice if I could determine it's full history, particularly the first owner.
Anyway, will leave it there for now until I've had a proper look over the vehicle later today.
Thanks again. Gary
An additive that you can use (we are sometimes asked to fit the kit on some of the motors with convert to lpg) is flashlube. It is a thin oil based product from Australia which is introduced into the intake manifold via a small brass tube that is screwed into a small hole drilled in the manifold and tapped with the right thread.
The lube is stored in a plastic bottle that you mount on the vehicle and the drip rate is adjustable via a knob on the clear drip sight tube on the side of the bottle.
The manufacturers say it is for any sort of fuel where lead is not present such as unleaded, lpg, cng etc.
Just an idea that may mean you can run without head mods.
The lube is stored in a plastic bottle that you mount on the vehicle and the drip rate is adjustable via a knob on the clear drip sight tube on the side of the bottle.
The manufacturers say it is for any sort of fuel where lead is not present such as unleaded, lpg, cng etc.
Just an idea that may mean you can run without head mods.
Yes, Ian, was Marks Samuri. Needs a bit of tidying inside, but he made a great job respraying it. All black with gold flecks - quite stunning.
I've had the carb off and cleaned it out today - she's ticking over nicely now - found a shred of plastic in the main jet and a small 'feather' in the carb filter.
Can't really do much to tune the engine up until I know exactly what engine the Sam has. Previous owner, Mark, believed it to be a 1600GT, but was not 100% sure. Does this engine number mean anything to anyone? S81 F6015D-A Does anyone know of any website that provides kent crossflow engine numbers so I can check it?
I will definitely be fitting a servo to the braking system as its hard enough to stop the Sam when I plan it 1/2 mile in advance - it would be brown trouser time trying to stop it quickly. I'm going to check that all the brakes are actually working tomorrow, just incase theres a reason other than the little inefficient drums.
Thanks for the info folks. Regards, Gary.
I've had the carb off and cleaned it out today - she's ticking over nicely now - found a shred of plastic in the main jet and a small 'feather' in the carb filter.
Can't really do much to tune the engine up until I know exactly what engine the Sam has. Previous owner, Mark, believed it to be a 1600GT, but was not 100% sure. Does this engine number mean anything to anyone? S81 F6015D-A Does anyone know of any website that provides kent crossflow engine numbers so I can check it?
I will definitely be fitting a servo to the braking system as its hard enough to stop the Sam when I plan it 1/2 mile in advance - it would be brown trouser time trying to stop it quickly. I'm going to check that all the brakes are actually working tomorrow, just incase theres a reason other than the little inefficient drums.
Thanks for the info folks. Regards, Gary.
Re checking brakes. 3 little points.
1. If the back axle has self adjusting brakes - it is odds on that they will not have adjusted themselves. Strip and clean them lag the ratchet with Copperslip and manually tighten them so the shoes are kissing the drums.
2. As it has stood for a long time I would bleed the brake system until the fluid has been completely replaced.
3. If you have to manually adjust the front brakes follow the sequence carefully - TLRs are amazingly efficient when working well - the usual fault is sloppy adjustment. You should leave lots of skid marks until you get used to them.
1. If the back axle has self adjusting brakes - it is odds on that they will not have adjusted themselves. Strip and clean them lag the ratchet with Copperslip and manually tighten them so the shoes are kissing the drums.
2. As it has stood for a long time I would bleed the brake system until the fluid has been completely replaced.
3. If you have to manually adjust the front brakes follow the sequence carefully - TLRs are amazingly efficient when working well - the usual fault is sloppy adjustment. You should leave lots of skid marks until you get used to them.
just a few points....
i have a sammi mk 1 escort based with discs and a servo with 235 60 15 front tyres steers fine with a medium sized wheel on brakes dont lock up too easily either mk 1 or 2 escort servo should be a bolt in fitment
all escorts were negative earth so no radio probs
sammis a bit lighter but mine drives ok
well did till i took box out and started fitting auto....
x flows out of mk2 cortinas have dipstick on timing chain cover as sump lump is at frint however ive changed ssumps and covers on them so others may have too there is a pretty comprehensive list of engine id nos on a site i found once think it was cortina mk 1 sort of site??
will look
i have a sammi mk 1 escort based with discs and a servo with 235 60 15 front tyres steers fine with a medium sized wheel on brakes dont lock up too easily either mk 1 or 2 escort servo should be a bolt in fitment
all escorts were negative earth so no radio probs
sammis a bit lighter but mine drives ok
well did till i took box out and started fitting auto....
x flows out of mk2 cortinas have dipstick on timing chain cover as sump lump is at frint however ive changed ssumps and covers on them so others may have too there is a pretty comprehensive list of engine id nos on a site i found once think it was cortina mk 1 sort of site??
will look
Yes as already said its OK to fit a servo to a Samuri.
Its around the same weight as the donor Escort and also has close to the same wheel base so just gets away with it.
The usual servo fitted is the MK2 Escort unit as it has the require "extension" mounting bracket (see your Escort Haynes manual)
Its around the same weight as the donor Escort and also has close to the same wheel base so just gets away with it.
The usual servo fitted is the MK2 Escort unit as it has the require "extension" mounting bracket (see your Escort Haynes manual)
Gary......not being padantic mate, but the engine number I would have thought should begin 681? not S81?
681F6015 numbers were found in the 1600E's and GT'swww.lotuscortina.com/library/block/blocks.ht
.....have a hunt around on that link...may find something useful.....I'm trying to dig out the site that gives the month and year of engine manufactor
681F6015 numbers were found in the 1600E's and GT'swww.lotuscortina.com/library/block/blocks.ht
.....have a hunt around on that link...may find something useful.....I'm trying to dig out the site that gives the month and year of engine manufactor
thats the link i was trying to find a bit rambly but its all there most of the later blocks start 711 so its earlier mk 1 escort maybe mk2 tina drum braked escorts all had 12" wheels {i think maybe mk 2 escort pop had 13"s????] so if its now running 15" wheels theres extra leverage from wheel tyre to brakes because of the size of wheels 'n tyres on geeps its recomended to stay to 13" with drums on the front so get discs or get a very strong right leg!!!!! lol pretty sure you need struts too as disc/drum front struts are different - scan ebay unless of course a club member has some???
dont worry if you find some with rubbish discs new ones are available for about 15 quid each and calipers exchange recon for around 45 quid
as techsec said theres a really big kinda extention bracket that moves master cyl about 18 inches forward of the bulkhead so yours may require a bit of hole drilling
where are you located???
dont worry if you find some with rubbish discs new ones are available for about 15 quid each and calipers exchange recon for around 45 quid
as techsec said theres a really big kinda extention bracket that moves master cyl about 18 inches forward of the bulkhead so yours may require a bit of hole drilling
where are you located???
Thanks for all the info guys. Now, fairly sure I have a 1600gt engine fitted. Manual says 8 degrees btc for timing, but assumably that was for 4 star fuel. Anyone know what it is with unleaded - or should I stick to 8 degrees if I'm adding a lead replacement? Gets confusing doesn't it? I've been looking at lead replacement 'Castrol Valvemaster'. For £60 I get enough to treat 660 gallons - should be good for around 20,000 miles, eh!
Is there a way of setting up timing so the engine tells you when its set up right rather than relying on textbook figures - i.e, some kind of engine analyser that tells me when everything is at optimum? I have a gunson colourtune so I can hopefully get the mixture spot on.
With reference to fitting a servo, it's going to get awfully cramped down the carb side of the engine with that massive servo extension fitted - is there any known alernative to that servo?
Regards, Gary.
Is there a way of setting up timing so the engine tells you when its set up right rather than relying on textbook figures - i.e, some kind of engine analyser that tells me when everything is at optimum? I have a gunson colourtune so I can hopefully get the mixture spot on.
With reference to fitting a servo, it's going to get awfully cramped down the carb side of the engine with that massive servo extension fitted - is there any known alernative to that servo?
Regards, Gary.
the best way is to set it at 8 degrees find a hill and drive it up giving it maximum load listening for pinking retard 2 degrees try again etc
if using normal unleaded i'd guess at 3 maybe 4 degrees will be around the right area
optimax/lrp although similar to leaded 4 star still dont have the amount of pinking reduction as proper "old" leaded had [even the current leaded you can get isnt as leaded as it was in the old days] so i'd still say you'll need to retard it some
i think you'll still need a different master cyl
volume of fluid moved is greater with discs than drums
so may be worth trying with what you have but be very careful at first test!!!
another possible is fitting a remote servo as fitted to some 60s cars [sunbeam alpine rover 2000 i think but thats from a severely jaded memory lol] which only has hydraulic connection no rods go into servo - so you could mount servo anywhere may be a little hard to come by but worth a scan of ebay/classic car books
if it does turn out too heavy to press
good luck
if using normal unleaded i'd guess at 3 maybe 4 degrees will be around the right area
optimax/lrp although similar to leaded 4 star still dont have the amount of pinking reduction as proper "old" leaded had [even the current leaded you can get isnt as leaded as it was in the old days] so i'd still say you'll need to retard it some
i think you'll still need a different master cyl
volume of fluid moved is greater with discs than drums
so may be worth trying with what you have but be very careful at first test!!!
another possible is fitting a remote servo as fitted to some 60s cars [sunbeam alpine rover 2000 i think but thats from a severely jaded memory lol] which only has hydraulic connection no rods go into servo - so you could mount servo anywhere may be a little hard to come by but worth a scan of ebay/classic car books
if it does turn out too heavy to press
good luck
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