RE: The Saab Saga: It's over

[MX7]

motormaniac said:

i always wonder why the public try to 'downtread' certain car manufacturers

Because they churn out st?

If a manufacturer can produce at the right price, I think the public are more than willing to buy. It wasn't the fault of the public that Saab made expensive cars that no one wanted to buy.

[mrobin33]

MX7 said:

Is that all fact? Buick are the top selling cars in China?

I'm not doubting you, I just didn't realise that.

Edit: I think you got it wrong.

Edited by MX7 on Tuesday 20th December 01:17

Actually your link shows GM as one and two - in its Chinese ventures. Sales in November alone were up 20% and in 2010 they sold more in China that in the US for the first time. That's why they are recovering so fast, why they are impervious to a downturn in Europe so long as they can reasonably stem losses from Vauxhall and Opel and why they really don't need another GM clone in China (Saab).

[mikEsprit]

Is Spyker sufficiently protected from this?

[samsoon19]

A very, very sad day!

I've only experienced a few months of Saab ownership but I love mine. I always liked them before, especially the old 900's, but when I got one I got the bug. Mine is a 97 900 s Taladega 2.3 and its awesome, been spot on. Drove it from Toronto to Whistler in 10 days and didn't miss a beat and was used as a work car in Toronto before that. My housemate also had a 900 convertable Turbo that I got to use a lot and, although I'm sure it would be different on a British B road, I loved driving it!
A lot of people give the NG 900's stick, being based on a Cavalier etc... But they don't drive anything like an old Cav. I like them because they are different. They're much rarer over here, a few in Toronto and Vancouver but I think we only saw one in between. I get a lot of people asking about mine and other Saab owners always wave.

I hope something will happen with what is left of Saab and really feel for their workforce, especially at this time of year!

Not really going in to the details of why they have gone under here. Just trying to generate some Saab love. They don't deserve the slating they're getting! They might not be everyones cup of tea but credit where credits due, they made some brilliant cars! Classic 900 T16 in a few years when I move back home I think

[ess]

Always admired the care which went into Saab styling; totally unique.

Finally gave in to a 2002 9-3 2.0T in 2009.
Sold shortly after in 2010.
Unfortunately it really was style over substance.

Have not driven the latest 9-5.
But christ is that one of the most beautiful saloons available.

[itiejim]

Real shame for those employed by the company, but I just can't find it in me to feel any real sadness that I won't be able to buy a new SAAB any more. All of their innovations are in their distant past and they really haven't offered anything new, innovative or particularly desirable for years - decades?

[jith]

BBS-LM said:

Could we not get rid of GM and keep Saab.

Best suggestion of the day that man!

J

[Twincam16]

MX7 said:

motormaniac said:

Vauxhall have always been a good manufacturer

Errrr....

I'm with motormaniac on this I'm afraid. Their cars may not have always been exciting, but they've always sold well, been fairly reliable and provided a lot of jobs in Britain. By that measure, they have always been a good manufacturer.

Also, many of them have been a lot of fun to drive. They've always had a commitment to hot hatches, quick versions of their saloons, and entrants in British motorsport - they stayed in the BTCC as a manufacturer long after many of the others had pulled out, and even today there are a fair few Vauxhalls on the grid.

And they import the VXR8 and Monaro. Can Ford be bothered bringing over the flame-belching Aussie Falcon? Can Ford even be bothered fitting the Mustang with right-hand drive?

Despite a history of things like Capris, GT40s and various rally beasts, Ford seems rather dull these days, with only hot versions of the rally Fiesta and BTCC Focus to raise pulses. Also, despite the public getting behind Ford as a 'British' manufacturer, the only thing they build here is the Transit. By contrast, Vauxhall makes the Astra here - there's a volume-produced British-built family car with a British badge, a lot of British engineering under the skin, and it's not half bad to drive. It also sells rather well.

Frankly I feel we should stick up for Vauxhall, they've achieved a hell of a lot both in their own field and for the economy, and all we seem to do is slag them off.

[Alfa159Ti]

I always liked Saab as a bit of a leftfield maker of performance focussed cars.

Then I drove one.

It was a low mileage Saab 9-3 Aero on a 56 plate.

The interior looked dated, the plastics were squeeky and incredibly low quality. The seat creaked, and rocked in its position. The indicator stalks flexed when used and felt brittle and like they might break. The symbols on the buttons on the dash had worn off in many places.

The torque steer was pretty bad, yet it never felt fast. Terrible fuel consumption and only five gears!

I was left thinking 'what a piece of crap'. A car a million miles behind its competitors of the time. No wonder Saab are where they are.

What is it that people like about them exactly? I approached with an open mind but can't see how anyone could love the 9-3.

As others have said, it is hard on the workers but its just business. Saab made a substandard product and tried to charge a premium for it. Hardly the foundations of a sustainable business model.

[ads1377]

Having owned 5 Saabs in 10 years of motoring, 1 of them being whilst under GM. I personally think Saab would never be as good as it once was. Saab has effectively been dead to me for years now. Destroyed by GM, as Im sure alot of enthusiasts will agree. The only shame is the workers that will be out of a job.

[Bacchus]

Pcavos said:

Hope this helps a bit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXVRdSbKDT8&fea...

and this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JhdHxrKg9g

[Pommygranite]

There's only 3 memorable SAAB related features:

1.comfy seats
2.ignition key location
3.torque steer

[williamp]

I am struggling to think of any "saab innovations" which have been really useful. That button to kill the interior lights? The handbrake key thing??

Sticking to a 2 stroke engine when everyone else had gone to 4 stroke.

Seriosuly, what innovations?

[Twincam16]

williamp said:

I am struggling to think of any "saab innovations" which have been really useful. That button to kill the interior lights? The handbrake key thing??

Sticking to a 2 stroke engine when everyone else had gone to 4 stroke.

Seriosuly, what innovations?

Proper aerodynamic refinement derived from aircraft? Galvanisation that actually worked, and inadvertantly cured the biggest problem in the Italian motor industry in the wake of the Type 4 project? Very low-emission relatively high diesel performance?

[cookie1600]

Alfa159Ti said:

It was a low mileage Saab 9-3 Aero on a 56 plate.

The interior looked dated, the plastics were squeeky and incredibly low quality. The seat creaked, and rocked in its position. The indicator stalks flexed when used and felt brittle and like they might break. The symbols on the buttons on the dash had worn off in many places.

The torque steer was pretty bad, yet it never felt fast. Terrible fuel consumption and only five gears!

I just don't recognise that from my driving a similar car for 90,000 miles and the Mrs having the diesel version at 124,000 miles. For starters I am getting between 40 and 43 mpg on journeys, dropping to 35 mpg when my foot gets excited, I rarely get torque steer unless I really provoke it from a junction - like most mid-power FWD cars. I'm still able to keep pace with 2.5 litre or 3.0 litre cars of comparable spec and the 6 speed petrol (diesel was first) came out just after the one you drove. I suspect that many cars of the new purchase price of the 9-3 would show similar traits at that stage of their run, this isn't just about SAAB and quality - its most manufacturers if we are honest.

I'm just waiting for the whole sorry mess to get sorted out so we can get back to a more constant supply of service items!!!

[Alfa159Ti]

cookie1600 said:

I just don't recognise that from my driving a similar car for 90,000 miles and the Mrs having the diesel version at 124,000 miles. For starters I am getting between 40 and 43 mpg on journeys, dropping to 35 mpg when my foot gets excited, I rarely get torque steer unless I really provoke it from a junction - like most mid-power FWD cars. I'm still able to keep pace with 2.5 litre or 3.0 litre cars of comparable spec and the 6 speed petrol (diesel was first) came out just after the one you drove. I suspect that many cars of the new purchase price of the 9-3 would show similar traits at that stage of their run, this isn't just about SAAB and quality - its most manufacturers if we are honest.

I'm just waiting for the whole sorry mess to get sorted out so we can get back to a more constant supply of service items!!!

Points taken - you obviously have far more experience with the cars than I do running two as daily drivers. Just pointing out what I personally took away from the test drive, having approached it with optimism and an open mind. I found the car generally pretty poor in all respects.

I guess it depends on your comparators. Of similar age brackets I owned an E46 3 series, a MK4 plate Golf V5 and an 06 Alfa GT in times past and they all felt a lot better quality, though the Alfa did have a few nasty plasticy bits too. Whilst the BMW is obviously in the prestige bracket so perhaps an unfair comparison, Alfa and VW are right there in the 'semi prestige' arena with Saab so are fair game.

Congrats on the impressive MPGs by the way.

[cookie1600]

williamp said:

Seriosuly, what innovations?

One of the first (if not arguably the first)to use turbocharging in mid-range production cars?

Of course, turbocharging has largely died out for the internal combustion engine in the intervening 25 years.......

But here's a list that I cannot even begin to start posting here:

http://www.saabmuseum.com/innovations/index.html

[gym]

HI DOES VOLVO CARS NOT BELONG TO THE CHINESE AFTER FORD SOLD IT OFF? SO WHY IS GM SO AFRAID.

[williamp]

cookie1600 said:

williamp said:

Seriosuly, what innovations?

One of the first (if not arguably the first)to use turbocharging in mid-range production cars?

Of course, turbocharging has largely died out for the internal combustion engine in the intervening 25 years.......

But here's a list that I cannot even begin to start posting here:

http://www.saabmuseum.com/innovations/index.html

As Peter Griffon would say, "I did not know that". A very interesting list

[Munich]

Sad news.

My dad had a 9000 Turbo when I was a child (picked it up on, 1st Aug 1986, the 1st day of D-registration) so I have had soft spot for Saab for most of my life (although it hasn't made me go out put my money where my mouth is....). Even though my dad had some very nice company cars after the 9000, including a Jag XJ40, E32, LS400, the Saab was the one he enjoyed the most (it had the best seats).