RE: Benn: High Fuel Prices An 'Incentive'
Discussion
I tell you what Mr Benn, instead of driving a polluting car at all, i'll work from home - that's less polluting isn't it?
Er, no, not really, seeing as how the home is one of the biggest sources of C02 and i'm damned if i'm going to be sitting at home with no heating on, or no lights. Apart from the fact that i very nearly can't afford to pay for the heating and lighting costs due to intolerable rises in the cost of utilities.
Dear me, at the rate Nu Labour are going, there's going to be more nails than coffin left.
Er, no, not really, seeing as how the home is one of the biggest sources of C02 and i'm damned if i'm going to be sitting at home with no heating on, or no lights. Apart from the fact that i very nearly can't afford to pay for the heating and lighting costs due to intolerable rises in the cost of utilities.
Dear me, at the rate Nu Labour are going, there's going to be more nails than coffin left.
What a complete an utter imbecile this bloke is. Not everyone lives off the Taxpayer with an expense account. Al these measure do is force people to KEEP their old polluting cars and this genuis hasn't a clue.
If they are serious about taxing the polluters when can we see punitive import duties on Chinese and Indian goods?? Never of course. When will the anti car lobby/Greens/Climate Change groups have their meeting in Hartlepool in January? Never, Bali in the summer and the next one is in Corfu I believe. Jobs for the boys. Champagne socialists.
If they are serious about taxing the polluters when can we see punitive import duties on Chinese and Indian goods?? Never of course. When will the anti car lobby/Greens/Climate Change groups have their meeting in Hartlepool in January? Never, Bali in the summer and the next one is in Corfu I believe. Jobs for the boys. Champagne socialists.
Antj said:
Next they'll say, poor people are incentivised to spend less as they don;t have the money to.
What a cock, still next year when he's out of a job he'll know whats it like to not have an expense account.
Nah, he'll be alright, he'll get a job suitable for him.....a merchant banker.What a cock, still next year when he's out of a job he'll know whats it like to not have an expense account.
grumbledoak said:
burman said:
Cant see its much of a socialist policy to price the poor and the peasantry off the road but traffic will be much lighter for the rich new labour ruling class driving their subsidised Gee Whizzes and Priuses
How do you think it worked under Communism, comrade?Why not just send him an email with the word t w a t put across the whole page? Childish I know but it would annoy him, so its kind of get your own back.
More total b
ks from the worst government we have ever had. It cost me £35 to get my Fiat from empty to just under the full yesterday, then I ran out of money again. I am in a low paid job (supermarket) and rely on the car to get there (I live 5 miles away with no suitable footpaths/cycle routes, and the busy roads are unsuitable for cycling on (too many HGVs and people driving like cocks) Thanks to the high petrol prices, I have to survive another week on just £1.75, and when payday comes around the bds will take most of my hard earned away. This country is heading to economic collapse. I had been saving for an Alfa Romeo 146 but thanks to these cocks I can't afford the petrol for it (but the tax is only £30 dearer than my Fiat...wtf?)
I shall definitely send an email to this total to see how he can explain himself, that is unless he is not out buying himself a new kitchen with all the tax money.
Get these Nazi's out in the next election, we should have the RIGHT to private transport.
More total b
ks from the worst government we have ever had. It cost me £35 to get my Fiat from empty to just under the full yesterday, then I ran out of money again. I am in a low paid job (supermarket) and rely on the car to get there (I live 5 miles away with no suitable footpaths/cycle routes, and the busy roads are unsuitable for cycling on (too many HGVs and people driving like cocks) Thanks to the high petrol prices, I have to survive another week on just £1.75, and when payday comes around the bds will take most of my hard earned away. This country is heading to economic collapse. I had been saving for an Alfa Romeo 146 but thanks to these cocks I can't afford the petrol for it (but the tax is only £30 dearer than my Fiat...wtf?)I shall definitely send an email to this total
to see how he can explain himself, that is unless he is not out buying himself a new kitchen with all the tax money.Get these Nazi's out in the next election, we should have the RIGHT to private transport.
nalutz said:
It's amazing how most people only think of their own situation today. I applaud OPEC for it's it stand on oil production, this is a finite resource and if the Worlds Goverments have not got the balls to intoduce legislation to reduce consumption and develop viable energy alternatives, we (our children) will be the ones that will be affected most.
Here in Australia the experts are predicting petrol prices of more than $A 8.00 per litre by 2020 if the world does not reduce its reliance on Oil.
Now don't get me wrong, I am a petrol head from way back, raced Jaguars for more than 40 years and still support Motor Sport, but lets get real. We don't need to drive SUV's for every day transport, or send our privte jet (Oprah) fron New York to Los Angeles to pick up our favorite cream cakes.
My personal Fleet includes a Jaguar XJS, E Type, 320 BMW, Buick Centurion, and a Ford F Truck, to name just a few. But I don't drive these every day.
My daily transport is a 1996 3.8 V6 Commodore with Dual Fuel (LPG/petrol) that gets 24mpg on LPG and 30mpg on petrol.
With LPG at $0.64/L and Petrol at $1.65/L, I obviously do most of my driving on LPG.
And last but not least, the economics of buying a new car to save a couple of Pounds a week on your Fuel bill are not justifiable.
My daughter, who I love dearly, disposed of her $16,000 Honda Jazz for a $40,000 Golf Diesel to save $5.00 a week. She could not be convinced that it was not an economically justifiable exercise.
So let' all think about the Planet for a change.
Is this a joke?Here in Australia the experts are predicting petrol prices of more than $A 8.00 per litre by 2020 if the world does not reduce its reliance on Oil.
Now don't get me wrong, I am a petrol head from way back, raced Jaguars for more than 40 years and still support Motor Sport, but lets get real. We don't need to drive SUV's for every day transport, or send our privte jet (Oprah) fron New York to Los Angeles to pick up our favorite cream cakes.
My personal Fleet includes a Jaguar XJS, E Type, 320 BMW, Buick Centurion, and a Ford F Truck, to name just a few. But I don't drive these every day.
My daily transport is a 1996 3.8 V6 Commodore with Dual Fuel (LPG/petrol) that gets 24mpg on LPG and 30mpg on petrol.
With LPG at $0.64/L and Petrol at $1.65/L, I obviously do most of my driving on LPG.
And last but not least, the economics of buying a new car to save a couple of Pounds a week on your Fuel bill are not justifiable.
My daughter, who I love dearly, disposed of her $16,000 Honda Jazz for a $40,000 Golf Diesel to save $5.00 a week. She could not be convinced that it was not an economically justifiable exercise.
So let' all think about the Planet for a change.
Your daily driver, the 3.8 V6 Commodore kicks out more co2 than most of the cars we have over here and if it was a 2001 car the government would be asking you for AUD 950 a year to drive it, maybe a bit less because of the LPG.
The LPG will still kicking out a load of c02.
That car would be in the top band of our taxes!
The UK government is retrospectively applying an extra tax on family cars (most of which would normally have about a 2 litre 4cyl normally aspirated engine) as well as bigger cars like yours and suv's.
You'd be considered the son of Satin if you lived over here and you'd be paying AUD 2.50 a litre for petrol.
I love you Aussies, thinking your doing your bit running a 3.8 litre v6, no worries mate :-)
Vipers said:
Peter255 said:
How anyone falls for the environmental line bks is beyond me.
Old cars use more petrol and emit more CO2 BUT (and this is important), producing a new car uses LOTS of Energy. I can't remember where I saw it but to make a new car (produce and shape the steel, plastic etc) used HUGE amounts of energy. Think of vats of molten metal and huge presses etc? Well what does that little lot run on? Fairy dust? Added up thats more than running a car for YEARS! So running cars for longer is actually all in all a good idea! Ideally just keep them maintained and run them for as long as possible.
Oh and what about waste? So we scrap all these perfectly good but now uneconomic cars. Where do they go? Do they really expect them all to be painstakingly dismantled and re-cycled? If so who pays for that to occur? In reality they get crushed and dumped somewhere. All in the name of the environment!
And the killer!
And what about the more efficient diesel engines. Higher MPG, lower emissions, but the fuel is MORE expensive due to tax. That blows the whole environmental crap out of the water. How on earth can they incentivise the MORE polluting petrol? WHAT?
Answer me that one face!
Peter
I do recall something similar that to produce a 1 ltr plastic bottle to hold 1 ltr of water takes 3 ltrs?ks is beyond me.Old cars use more petrol and emit more CO2 BUT (and this is important), producing a new car uses LOTS of Energy. I can't remember where I saw it but to make a new car (produce and shape the steel, plastic etc) used HUGE amounts of energy. Think of vats of molten metal and huge presses etc? Well what does that little lot run on? Fairy dust? Added up thats more than running a car for YEARS! So running cars for longer is actually all in all a good idea! Ideally just keep them maintained and run them for as long as possible.
Oh and what about waste? So we scrap all these perfectly good but now uneconomic cars. Where do they go? Do they really expect them all to be painstakingly dismantled and re-cycled? If so who pays for that to occur? In reality they get crushed and dumped somewhere. All in the name of the environment!
And the killer!
And what about the more efficient diesel engines. Higher MPG, lower emissions, but the fuel is MORE expensive due to tax. That blows the whole environmental crap out of the water. How on earth can they incentivise the MORE polluting petrol? WHAT?
Answer me that one
face!Peter
Edited by Peter255 on Monday 14th July 20:09
Back in the 80s there was a channel 4 program called ‘Car for Africa’. I have it on VHS tape somewhere (remember tape ?!).
Its premise was that approximately 10 to 12 times more energy is used making a modern car than the car will ever use in its entire lifetime of burning petrol.
(The study encompassed everything from the vast energy that’s needed for smelting of aluminium, to making all the parts, building car manufacturing plants, and all the side line costs of transporting materials eventually used in the processes needed to make all the 10,000 components in a car, and so on.)
Daily I drive a 6 yr old Audi A6 1.9 TDi. Brilliant car, with 140,000 on the clock, regularly returning 50 MPG, and feels like it’s got another 100,000 miles in it yet. Its barely depreciating, costs very little to run, generates average pollution, etc etc. I live in the countryside (that place the government would like to obliterate) and there’s no buses, trains or any useable public transport. And I have to commute 40 miles a day round trip. I don’t want to move closer to work due to sudden increase in house prices in the next county, and the 4% stamp duty I would have to pay etc.
So, the govt wants me to sell my old car, and buy a new one - Why ? Surely this is a really BAD idea for the environment because off the VAST amount of planetary resources a new car consumes in manufacture, and this makes the fuel / effiicnecy arguments almost irrelevant, even if the 10 to 12 times factor mentioned above is wrong by 50%.
If the government are really looking at the overall incremental effect of us all buying new cars and incrementally helping to reduce the long term environmental impact, then why the f
k cant they look at the much bigger picture and encourage us to sustain older cars for longer, and reduce the drain on the environment. What exactly is this big environmental saving they allude to ???? And guess who the main beneficiary of new cars sales is … the f
king government ! Just think of all that CAR TAX and VAT tax. And most people would have to finance it, and watch it depreciate like a stone for the first 2 yrs. Personally, I really am very happy running the extremely cost effective and efficient older car just the way I am at the moment. In fact its not even that ‘old’ – 6 yrs is nothing for a modern car.
All these idiots are after is your money, make no excuses for them!
Under the guise of Green Taxes: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/greenstealth/
Most of these idiots in Government live within a few miles of Westminster and have access to the Tube and London's pretty good transport network - I never owned a car there as it wasn't as necessary working in the city centre. Now that I don't live in such a big city where the weather isn't so great I have a car and a couple of bikes. I've been told by the Council here that the bikes are just as polluting as cars (total crap) and when we voted against the CC here that we wouldn't get away that easy. Now they are spending 600 million on 16 trams when most of the buses are empty and when they are closing 3 primapry schools due to a shortage in funding.
VOTE THEM OUT, THEY HAVE GONE POWER & MONEY MAD & WE NEED TO GET RID OF THEM!!
Under the guise of Green Taxes: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/greenstealth/
Most of these idiots in Government live within a few miles of Westminster and have access to the Tube and London's pretty good transport network - I never owned a car there as it wasn't as necessary working in the city centre. Now that I don't live in such a big city where the weather isn't so great I have a car and a couple of bikes. I've been told by the Council here that the bikes are just as polluting as cars (total crap) and when we voted against the CC here that we wouldn't get away that easy. Now they are spending 600 million on 16 trams when most of the buses are empty and when they are closing 3 primapry schools due to a shortage in funding.
VOTE THEM OUT, THEY HAVE GONE POWER & MONEY MAD & WE NEED TO GET RID OF THEM!!
Edited by scotia_steve74 on Tuesday 15th July 11:06
Just submitted this to Benns website:
I read your comments on high fuel prices being "an incentive" with interest. As a working class citizen in a low paid job, I find these comments totally out of order. Fuel prices are ridiculously high, and for the vast majority of us who do not receive fuel mileage allowance from our employer, unlike yourself, simply getting to work is too expensive. Public transport is virtually non existent where I live, and even the occasional bus that we do get is more often than not late, overcrowded and very expensive. It is also not possible to walk the 5 miles to work due to lack of footpaths, and the main road is too busy and unsuitable for cycling.
It is annoying enough that when I receive a pay packet, the government takes a percentage of it as tax, and then we have to pay road fund licence tax, then pay value added tax on fuel and then pay fuel duty tax on that again. I would feel that your comments and these taxes were justified if public transport was any good, but as I have already mentioned it is far from it. if you and the government want us to use cars less and be more "eco-friendly" then give us a REAL incentive, like making public transport be on time, more affordable and of better general quality. I, along with most of the British population, feel that simply pricing us off the road is a totally unfair decision; this is meant to be a free country where we can choose to do what we please, and this includes choosing our own modes of transport, but we cannot do that because the government taxes us so much that we simply cannot afford to do so.
I hope that you will take my comments seriously, and if something is not done about it soon then I sincerely hope that this term in office will be your (and Labour's) last.
What do you all think?
I read your comments on high fuel prices being "an incentive" with interest. As a working class citizen in a low paid job, I find these comments totally out of order. Fuel prices are ridiculously high, and for the vast majority of us who do not receive fuel mileage allowance from our employer, unlike yourself, simply getting to work is too expensive. Public transport is virtually non existent where I live, and even the occasional bus that we do get is more often than not late, overcrowded and very expensive. It is also not possible to walk the 5 miles to work due to lack of footpaths, and the main road is too busy and unsuitable for cycling.
It is annoying enough that when I receive a pay packet, the government takes a percentage of it as tax, and then we have to pay road fund licence tax, then pay value added tax on fuel and then pay fuel duty tax on that again. I would feel that your comments and these taxes were justified if public transport was any good, but as I have already mentioned it is far from it. if you and the government want us to use cars less and be more "eco-friendly" then give us a REAL incentive, like making public transport be on time, more affordable and of better general quality. I, along with most of the British population, feel that simply pricing us off the road is a totally unfair decision; this is meant to be a free country where we can choose to do what we please, and this includes choosing our own modes of transport, but we cannot do that because the government taxes us so much that we simply cannot afford to do so.
I hope that you will take my comments seriously, and if something is not done about it soon then I sincerely hope that this term in office will be your (and Labour's) last.
What do you all think?
For the majority of people using a car to get about, this is the only option. Public transport is rarely now mentioned by the government, as this alternative is so unworkable. Train users suffer increasing ticket costs combined with dreadful unsafe carriage overcrowding. Bus users wait for a bus that eventually turns up in a bus-lane-only that has caused long traffic jams for ordinary road users.
The green issues of motoring do not stand up, they are just plain politics to extract further tax from the easy pickings of motoring. The green footprint for life cycle of so called hybrid cars is far more costly than a normal car.
Politicians will continue to lie until the black hole of government debt is filled and probably beyond. The stealing of further monies from the general public from Road Fund Licence, Fuel Tax and vehicle cost will I'm afraid go on under the green flag of nonsense.
The green issues of motoring do not stand up, they are just plain politics to extract further tax from the easy pickings of motoring. The green footprint for life cycle of so called hybrid cars is far more costly than a normal car.
Politicians will continue to lie until the black hole of government debt is filled and probably beyond. The stealing of further monies from the general public from Road Fund Licence, Fuel Tax and vehicle cost will I'm afraid go on under the green flag of nonsense.
Edited by La bks on Tuesday 15th July 16:03
ks on Tuesday 15th July 16:03I would love to see any memeber of the goverment to come and live and work in cornwall, manage on £20,000 a year or less with 2 kids and then try to run 2 cars to get to work as there are no buses to our work places and a taxi is too expensive and also pay rent or a mortgage on a house and also the upkeep of a house and family. Would they be happy with the rising fuel costs then? I dont think so.
You are spot on mate I also work in the motortrade and it's killing us, I also live in cornwall so no public transport. The goverment need to get with the real world and start to support the normal people.
The fact is that public transport is just to unflexible for me to use. My car was manufactured in 1996 and is currently has 126k on the clock, it is immaculate and has a FSH. So it runs very effficently thank you.
As it was made a few years ago and is nowhere near ready for scrapping it is thus more environmently friendly than a factory fresh Prius (which i can neither afford or want - hateful things).
I suggest you either wake up or shut up! Live in the real world - i'll swap my job and salary with yours anytime - see how quickly you fail to survive.
Submitted.Heres mine:
I could not sit by and read about yet another incompetant out of touch minister preach total rubbish to those of us who need a car, and who find your comments rude, patrronising and plain offensive.
I have no bus service, no shops and no ameneites within a mile of my house, as I live in the country.
We also dont have a footpath so walking isnt a smart option on coutry roads either.
I hope you make the most of your time in office, as with such a demonstration of crass insensitivity concerning the massive and unnaceptable burden placed on the motorist by your tax mad party , I suspect (and sincerely hope) it may be your last.Nice one mate.
killingjoker said:
Wilder said:
killingjoker said:
mybrainhurts said:
I have to question as to whether you have any concievable indea as to how much the normal working man & woman has to pay to run a car in the real world. I HAVE to travel to work by car, i need it also to visit my family. My job is also in the motor trade. The fact is that public transport is just to unflexible for me to use. My car was manufactured in 1996 and is currently has 126k on the clock, it is immaculate and has a FSH. So it runs very effficently thank you.
As it was made a few years ago and is nowhere near ready for scrapping it is thus more environmently friendly than a factory fresh Prius (which i can neither afford or want - hateful things).
I suggest you either wake up or shut up! Live in the real world - i'll swap my job and salary with yours anytime - see how quickly you fail to survive.
Submitted.
I could not sit by and read about yet another incompetant out of touch minister preach total rubbish to those of us who need a car, and who find your comments rude, patrronising and plain offensive.
I have no bus service, no shops and no ameneites within a mile of my house, as I live in the country.
We also dont have a footpath so walking isnt a smart option on coutry roads either.
I hope you make the most of your time in office, as with such a demonstration of crass insensitivity concerning the massive and unnaceptable burden placed on the motorist by your tax mad party , I suspect (and sincerely hope) it may be your last.
Monki said:
I sometimes think an Al Qaeda attack on parliament would be a good thing 
If it was Al-Qaeda they could use it as an excuse to further restrict rights in the name of protecting us from terrorists. But then we've had terrorism since I was a kid in one form or another. It seems now they think we should be scared of them so we'll accept knee-jerk laws to protect us (that just so happen to restrict our rights to protest amongst other things). Not that the people have any say in the matter anyway. No, it would be far more effective if it were citizens who'd just had enough and decided to take action. You know, we fought for our freedom in world wars, only to have it taken away from us years later by our own government. Sad really.Ok, even I'll admit, that was a bit extreme... But still, the sentiment is there.
MitchT said:
Personally I hate it when articles like this use the word 'families'. It implies that single people and childless couples all enjoy massive wages and tiny living costs.
Good point.I'm sure things are tough for families, but that's not to say they're not the only hard up ones.
And i'm sure even people with disposable income aren't enjoying wasting it on fuel tax when it could be better wasted on booze and drugs.
So sudenly I can stop using my car to go to work at various sites carry the equipment I need for my job. Companies have been protected from the impact of escalating motoring cost as the Government have fixed the IR mileage rate since 2002! I am now subsidising my job/employer who of course use the IR mileage rate as an excuse not to pay more. Real motivation to the workers who pay taxes.
The Tories, who are so critical, will come in make no improvements, just hide behind the fact it was introduced by a previous Goverment.
The Tories, who are so critical, will come in make no improvements, just hide behind the fact it was introduced by a previous Goverment.
We should all stay at home and not travel anywhere ,that way they can finally control us and where we go and then they can complete their agenda . All in the name of saving the planet.
I should start breeding horses or making carts as this may be the only alternative soon . They would probaly then tax us on the number of hands/size the horse is. Only low polluting ones of course so only low fa*ting ponies please!!
This is all for or own good of course as they know best
I should start breeding horses or making carts as this may be the only alternative soon . They would probaly then tax us on the number of hands/size the horse is. Only low polluting ones of course so only low fa*ting ponies please!!
This is all for or own good of course as they know best
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