RE: DVLA Logbook Disaster Rolls On

[va1o]

Twoshoe said:

Surely all they have to do is redesign it slightly and then gradually as new documents get issued when people sell their cars, the current style will become obsolete.

You would think so, but in this country something so simple would no doubt cost millions, need hundreds of additional staff to manage, and then not work properly.

[360pete]

SimonSaid said:

snorky said:

no it was a theft - do you want to be liable when someone steals your breadknife then stabs someone with it?

Exactly. Although the DVLA have made a MASSIVE cockup here, ultimately it wasn't a criminal act. The criminal act was the theft of the blank V5s from DVLA HQ, plus the subsequent car theft and cloning etc.

The DVLA could be slapped on the wrist for negligence, but you'd never convince a judge that they were therefore responsible for all of the consequences arising. Snorky's example works well. Similarly, if I drop my car keys in the street then I'm a clumsy plonker, but I'm not repsonsible if a theif subsequently picks the keys up and uses my car in a bank job. I wouldn't then have to refund the bank

It is exactly your type of thinkng that gives us sloppy public officials and politicians who will never take responsibility for anything.
According to your convoluted thinking: as a surgeon, if I cock up an operation on you and you never walk again because I was not paying proper attention to what I was doing then I would not expect you to come after me for compensation! Is that how you think it works?
We should all stop making excuses for the way things are in this country and start demanding better.

[Windymiller]

dandarez said:

...LOST!!! ...between the printers and the shredders...

Really?

Being in the publishing and printing industries, I reckon 130,000 V5 documents would weigh around
1,300 KILOS.

Couldn't exactly fall of the lorry and not be noticed, or piled on the back seat of your car, eh?

INSIDE JOB?
or does it need rocket science?

Just what I was thinking mate. As a designer, I'd be SERIOUSLY copy-checking a run of 120,000 items! What retard missed a mistake major enough to bin the job-lot? The usual public-sector attention to detail eh...

[mybrainhurts]

youbeenspied said:

Nobody actually owns their car in the UK as it states your just the "Registered Keeper"

Sorry to disappoint you, old chap, but I own my car...So there

[Lil' Joe]

This is the second bit of dodgyness I have come across re the DVLA.

A couple of years ago I had an acquaintance who was in to all sorts of illegal activities. He offered me a driving licence for a couple of thousand. Now I obviously didn't take it as I have one, however when I questioned him on it further he told me that he had two contacts at the DVLA, who were able to issue a real driving licence, and enter it onto the DVLA's database so if you were ever stopped by the BiB it would show as a real licence.

I don't know if this is possible (maybe someone else knows?) but I do know that whatever else he was into, he was getting away with it and had been for along time (several house, 2 clubs etc etc) so it seemed likely to me at the time that this was possible. He assured me that he only offered them to people who would not abuse them, i.e not a load of chavs down McDonalds but blokes who required licences for whatever, no doubt dodgy, reason.

This recent revelation about the V5's only serves to back up this story IMO...

[valley boy]

I cannot understand what all the fuss is about. These blank V5C's were stolen back in 2006 when they were destined to be destroyed. Its only now that the press has got hold of it that its come to light.
The V5C is not worth the paper it is printed on.It does not prove ownership, and DVLA only record vehicle keepers, who are considered as the main user of the vehicle and generally is the person whom they or the police would contact in any event.Also most modern cars have the chassis number on a little plastic badge in the corner of the window anyway.DVLA always advises to do a HPI check before you buy and they will also check the validity of the V5C over the phone if you call them. you do not have to be a genius to spot a "ringer",you just apply common sense when buying a car and you get what you pay for.
V5C or not, if criminals want your car they will take it. Either way it will be sold as a "ringer" or dismantled and sold for parts.
Its always easier to blame someone or something for your own incompetence? we all end up suffering with increased insurance premiums. BUYER BEWARE, SOLD AS SEEN...

Edited by valley boy on Friday 5th February 19:30

[Claypole]

A decent printers would have a shredder onsite... can't see them getting much work otherwise, oh it's the government though.

[va1o]

valley boy said:

I cannot understand what all the fuss is about. These blank V5C's were stolen back in 2006 when they were destined to be destroyed. Its only now that the press has got hold of it that its come to light.
The V5C is not worth the paper it is printed on.It does not prove ownership, and DVLA only record vehicle keepers, who are considered as the main user of the vehicle and generally is the person whom they or the police would contact in any event.Also most modern cars have the chassis number on a little plastic badge in the corner of the window anyway.DVLA always advises to do a HPI check before you buy and they will also check the validity of the V5C over the phone if you call them. you do not have to be a genius to spot a "ringer",you just apply common sense when buying a car and you get what you pay for.
V5C or not, if criminals want your car they will take it. Either way it will be sold as a "ringer" or dismantled and sold for parts.
Its always easier to blame someone or something for your own incompetence? we all end up suffering with increased insurance premiums. BUYER BEWARE, SOLD AS SEEN...

Edited by valley boy on Friday 5th February 19:30

You work for the DVLA, don't you?

[eldar]

valley boy said:

I am a civil servant based in South Wales, and am by no means a company man. I am not looking to defend DVLA, its just that you have got to look at the bigger picture when buying a vehicle privately and you have got take all reasonable steps to cover yourself.

You also expect the DVLA to take reasonable care to prevent fraud. Shrugging and saying 'its your problem' isn't good enough.

[crazypb]

Ah,.. DVLA,.. run on an outsourcing contract by that amazing bunch of plonkers called Capita PLC! If they have any input into anything, it invariably ends up as a FUBAR and yes, they are the ones who sell the DVLA datbase details to insurance companies to send you all that junk-mail too!
Lucrative contracts if you have a buddy (shareholder) in Westminster!

[bakerjuk]

Twoshoe said:

I read recently that they expect these stolen documents to be causing problems for many years to come. Surely all they have to do is redesign it slightly and then gradually as new documents get issued when people sell their cars, the current style will become obsolete. Additionally, they could offer to reissue people's valid docs in the new style if they request it (perhaps for a nominal charge) and then their subsequent purchasers will know immediately that it cannot be one of the stolen ones.

Or am I missing somthing here...?

++1 great idea.. Surely this is a worthwhile expense for the public coffers? Better than a f*cking duck pond and £27k of taxi fares for one person. If we save a poor soul the heartache and financial burden of losing a LOT of money then its surely worthwhile.

Start a No10 Petition and I guess many others would sign it.

[bakerjuk]

I am confused as when I get a new car I have to send off portion 10 of the V5 doc to have it registered in my name.. Soooooo if you dont you are not the registered keeper which is an offense in itself.

Also, if you send it off. SURELY it is within the realms of possibility that these incompetent bafoons can check the Cert number and will know who has bought a duffer....

I really think a re-issue of ALL certs is in order. Make the old ones COMPLETELY irrelevent within 1 month and just print totally new coloured ones that stand out.. a few adverts for a month too and everyone will know.. Jobs done.. ?

[14-7]

youbeenspied said:

Nobody actually owns their car in the UK as it states your just the "Registered Keeper"

I think you are reading too much in to the wording.

[zac510]

valley boy said:

I cannot understand what all the fuss is about. These blank V5C's were stolen back in 2006 when they were destined to be destroyed. Its only now that the press has got hold of it that its come to light.
The V5C is not worth the paper it is printed on.It does not prove ownership, and DVLA only record vehicle keepers, who are considered as the main user of the vehicle and generally is the person whom they or the police would contact in any event.Also most modern cars have the chassis number on a little plastic badge in the corner of the window anyway.DVLA always advises to do a HPI check before you buy and they will also check the validity of the V5C over the phone if you call them. you do not have to be a genius to spot a "ringer",you just apply common sense when buying a car and you get what you pay for.
V5C or not, if criminals want your car they will take it. Either way it will be sold as a "ringer" or dismantled and sold for parts.
Its always easier to blame someone or something for your own incompetence? we all end up suffering with increased insurance premiums. BUYER BEWARE, SOLD AS SEEN...

Edited by valley boy on Friday 5th February 19:30

If they were stolen in 2006, 4 years ago, why are we only hearing about it now?

[GC8]

SimonSaid said:

Exactly. Although the DVLA have made a MASSIVE cockup here, ultimately it wasn't a criminal act. The criminal act was the theft of the blank V5s from DVLA HQ, plus the subsequent car theft and cloning etc.

They werent stolen from 'DVLA HQ'! They were stolen after they were thrown into the back of a van at/by the printers; and before they were shredded at the 'secure shredders'. Had anyone given a monkeys then this wouldnt have happened.

[Gallen]

snorky said:

no it was a theft - do you want to be liable when someone steals your breadknife then stabs someone with it?

I'd question their "duty of care".

Has to be some recompense to this - for instance;

If it was a Weapons company who had explosives "stolen" which blew up about 10 things each week, surely something would happen to them.....!

[Nurburgsingh]

crazypb said:

Ah,.. DVLA,.. run on an outsourcing contract by that amazing bunch of plonkers called Crapita PLC! If they have any input into anything, it invariably ends up as a FUBAR and yes, they are the ones who sell the DVLA datbase details to insurance companies to send you all that junk-mail too!
Lucrative contracts if you have a buddy (shareholder) in Westminster!

EFA...

[FishFace]

360pete said:

SimonSaid said:

snorky said:

no it was a theft - do you want to be liable when someone steals your breadknife then stabs someone with it?

Exactly. Although the DVLA have made a MASSIVE cockup here, ultimately it wasn't a criminal act. The criminal act was the theft of the blank V5s from DVLA HQ, plus the subsequent car theft and cloning etc.

The DVLA could be slapped on the wrist for negligence, but you'd never convince a judge that they were therefore responsible for all of the consequences arising. Snorky's example works well. Similarly, if I drop my car keys in the street then I'm a clumsy plonker, but I'm not repsonsible if a theif subsequently picks the keys up and uses my car in a bank job. I wouldn't then have to refund the bank

It is exactly your type of thinkng that gives us sloppy public officials and politicians who will never take responsibility for anything.
According to your convoluted thinking: as a surgeon, if I cock up an operation on you and you never walk again because I was not paying proper attention to what I was doing then I would not expect you to come after me for compensation! Is that how you think it works?
We should all stop making excuses for the way things are in this country and start demanding better.

That's not a valid comparison at all. He's saying the DVLA were subject to a criminal act, the complexity of which we do not know. If you want the medical analogy, it's like holding the surgeon to account if someone comes into the theater grabs his arm, and then stabs you with the scalpel.

[dandarez]

hora said:

Claypole said:

A decent printers would have a shredder onsite... can't see them getting much work otherwise, oh it's the government though.

Now now. Common sense just wont do

Even a 'small' printers has tons of offcuts from simply guillotining trimming paper stock and every printed job it does. This piles into bins for collection by waste paper companies. They could have used this method and it would all have got pulped and no one the wiser.

But the simple point of it being transferred to a shredding company immediately shows the 'product' is 'sensitive' material.

I still say it was 'inside' job. How else would anyone know what was being transported or did the lorry carry a large sign '1300 kilos of Sensitive blank V5C documents on board - Keep Away!'

Actually, knowing these knumbskulls it probably did!

As for it being a criminal act, no, just the usual one of TOTAL INCOMPETENCE!
Don't forget this when voting on MAY 6th

Edited by dandarez on Saturday 6th February 13:55

[bakerjuk]

FishFace said:

360pete said:

SimonSaid said:

snorky said:

no it was a theft - do you want to be liable when someone steals your breadknife then stabs someone with it?

Exactly. Although the DVLA have made a MASSIVE cockup here, ultimately it wasn't a criminal act. The criminal act was the theft of the blank V5s from DVLA HQ, plus the subsequent car theft and cloning etc.

The DVLA could be slapped on the wrist for negligence, but you'd never convince a judge that they were therefore responsible for all of the consequences arising. Snorky's example works well. Similarly, if I drop my car keys in the street then I'm a clumsy plonker, but I'm not repsonsible if a theif subsequently picks the keys up and uses my car in a bank job. I wouldn't then have to refund the bank

It is exactly your type of thinkng that gives us sloppy public officials and politicians who will never take responsibility for anything.
According to your convoluted thinking: as a surgeon, if I cock up an operation on you and you never walk again because I was not paying proper attention to what I was doing then I would not expect you to come after me for compensation! Is that how you think it works?
We should all stop making excuses for the way things are in this country and start demanding better.

That's not a valid comparison at all. He's saying the DVLA were subject to a criminal act, the complexity of which we do not know. If you want the medical analogy, it's like holding the surgeon to account if someone comes into the theater grabs his arm, and then stabs you with the scalpel.

Your analogy is totally on the wrong track too.

Its more along the lines of you giving a bank your money, them sending it via 1st class post and it being lost. Would you be happy with this service, wouldnt you demand that your money be sent by a "secure" courier who made sure the money was placed in the big vault?

I think we just accept crap in the country because if we want it fixed, these prats turn round and take MORE money from us to fix the mess THEY made using OUR money in the first place. Basically they have us over a barrel.

Why dont we have a say over who is employed in these public offices as clearly we are funding them? Do shareholders not have an AGM, so why dont we?