Ban of sale of new petrol & diesel cars now back to 2035

[CrgT16]

EVs in their current state are not a solution for all motoring but can play a role for some uses. There will be no magic bullet and in the decades to come what will diminish is personal transport because it will become unaffordable to a lot of people. That’s were we are heading… less personal transport

[tamore]

CrgT16 said:

EVs in their current state are not a solution for all motoring but can play a role for some uses. There will be no magic bullet and in the decades to come what will diminish is personal transport because it will become unaffordable to a lot of people. That’s were we are heading… less personal transport

key bit being EVs in their current state. big advances will come before 2030 even, to cover all bet the fringiest of fringe cases.

to reduce personal transport, which i happen to think is a decent goal, we need enormous investment in public transport. sadly that won't happen.

[Oliver Hardy]

Just posted on another thread but just discovered that although the ICE ban has been pushed back to 2035 manufactures still have a target of having to sell 80% of EV cars by 2030 and 70% of van sales must be EVs

car sales van sales
2024 22% 10%
2025 28% 16%
2026 33% 24%
2027 38% 34%
2028 52% 46%
2029 66% 58%
2030 80% 70%

Edited by Oliver Hardy on Tuesday 28th May 03:51

[Oilchange]

tamore said:

key bit being EVs in their current state. big advances will come before 2030 even, to cover all bet the fringiest of fringe cases.

Your crystal ball seems to be on top form, guess we’ll see

[charltjr]

Oliver Hardy said:

Just posted on another thread but just discovered that although the ICE ban has been pushed back to 2035 manufactures still have a target of having to sell 80% of EV cars by 2030 and 70% of van sales must be EVs

car sales van sales
2024 22% 10%
2025 28% 16%
2026 33% 24%
2027 38% 34%
2028 52% 46%
2029 66% 58%
2030 80% 70%

Edited by Oliver Hardy on Tuesday 28th May 03:51

Yes, which is why Boris’ stupid manoeuvre to bring the date forward to 2030 and then the move back to 2035 was just window dressing. It’s those targets, which have teeth becuase they have financial penalties attached, which are driving the change for the manufacturers.

[HTP99]

charltjr said:

Oliver Hardy said:

Just posted on another thread but just discovered that although the ICE ban has been pushed back to 2035 manufactures still have a target of having to sell 80% of EV cars by 2030 and 70% of van sales must be EVs

car sales van sales
2024 22% 10%
2025 28% 16%
2026 33% 24%
2027 38% 34%
2028 52% 46%
2029 66% 58%
2030 80% 70%

Edited by Oliver Hardy on Tuesday 28th May 03:51

Yes, which is why Boris’ stupid manoeuvre to bring the date forward to 2030 and then the move back to 2035 was just window dressing. It’s those targets, which have teeth becuase they have financial penalties attached, which are driving the change for the manufacturers.

Going to be interesting times ahead towards the end of this year and future years when manufacturers start to restrict sales and supply of ICE vehicles so they can hit their EV penetration.

Going to be harder for dealers too, less new sales in general due to manufacturers holding back ICE, fewer deals on ICE for the consumer too.

I'm in new car sales and the private buyer is just is not interested in EV, It'll be interesting to see how this all pans out.

[greend]

Going to be interesting times ahead towards the end of this year and future years when manufacturers start to restrict sales and supply of ICE vehicles so they can hit their EV penetration.

Going to be harder for dealers too, less new sales in general due to manufacturers holding back ICE, fewer deals on ICE for the consumer too.

I'm in new car sales and using discounts here and the private buyer is just is not interested in EV, It'll be interesting to see how this all pans out.

I wonder how this will affect the prices of used ICE cars?
I think the charging infrastructure needs to be more developed before EVs become truly popular. I don’t think that by ’35 they will have made all the conditions

Edited by greend on Monday 3rd June 07:32

[tberg]

Well, here in California, we're probably going to be headed to all electric even sooner as the stupid state government doesn't really care about long term planning but is more concerned with environmental "optics."
This past week I had to travel to Chicago for my son's graduation and when I got to the car rental agency at the airport, I was told that instead of the gas powered Toyota Camry that I reserved, I was to receive the "manager's special." a new Mercedes EV SUV. I don't remember the exact model number but it was something like EQB 300. I figured that I'd try it out having never driven an EV before. Big, big mistake. What a horrible lump of c**p. The car was fully charged at the pickup point. But by the time we drove the 11 1/2 miles to our hotel in downtown Chicago, the range on the dash said we had 108 miles left, which would mean that the range was about 120 miles. That would mean that if you were on a highway on the way to a vacation, you'd be stopping in less than two hours if you can find a charger. After puttering around the city for about another 30-40 miles over the next couple of days, I got the warning signal on the dash saying that we were in the "reserve." The dash showed I had about 8 miles left on the charge, and I was worried I wouldn't make it back to the hotel. We googled quick charge stations in Chicago and after visiting 6 that didn't work, we finally found one in a hospital parking garage that was not a fast charging station, but at least we could leave it charging for 45 minutes or so and get a few miles so that we could get back to the hotel. After 45 minutes we got about 12 extra miles and decided to keep on looking since we were required to return the car fully charged on the next day as we travelled back to Los Angeles. Each of the first 6 stations were inside of pay to park parking garages, so I had already paid 6 times for nothing. Our 7th attempt was in a shopping center parking lot, and an hour stop there gave us a 100% charge. What an absolute pain in the arse. And the Mercedes, itself, even aside from the charging difficulties was just a horrible car. Terrible ergonomics, impossible to read or see HVAC controls, impossibly confusing radio controls, unnerving braking and decelerating sequence. When you remove your foot from the throttle pedal, the car essentially stops, no gentle crawl up to the stoplight, it just stops after a second or so. Throttle takes an inordinate amount of travel to engage, every bit of this EV experience guarantees that I will never buy, own, rent, sit in another EV as long as I am still using automobiles as transportation. I can't even imagine that all EVs feel this bad, I'll have to try my son-in-law's Tesla as a comparison, but I'll not be using an EV anytime soon. My guess is that by 2035, all electric vehicles will be a thing of the past anyway, as I don't see electrics as the future of the automobile's power source. It will undoubtedly shift to hydrogen powered sources.

I didn't believe Mercedes could build a car this poorly.

[tamore]

tberg said:

It will undoubtedly shift to hydrogen powered sources..

almost certainly. you getting a pet unicorn for Christmas too?

[Sheepshanks]

tberg said:

When you remove your foot from the throttle pedal, the car essentially stops, no gentle crawl up to the stoplight, it just stops after a second or so.

People play hell about EVs that don't have one-pedal driving!

[sixor8]

Getting one short notice as a hire car will jaundice a view. There were undoubtedly settings to reduce the regen if wanted. If you drive a poor petrol car, you don't damn the whole ICE philosophy!

[tberg]

The braking was the least of this car's problems. Impossible to see control buttons, terrible range, poor ergonomics, poor throttle response, joyless driving. I'm not condemning the entire genre of EVs, but I can certainly condemn Mercedes' offering here. It was awful.

[Fusion777]

tberg said:

Well, here in California, we're probably going to be headed to all electric even sooner as the stupid state government doesn't really care about long term planning but is more concerned with environmental "optics."
This past week I had to travel to Chicago for my son's graduation and when I got to the car rental agency at the airport, I was told that instead of the gas powered Toyota Camry that I reserved, I was to receive the "manager's special." a new Mercedes EV SUV. I don't remember the exact model number but it was something like EQB 300. I figured that I'd try it out having never driven an EV before. Big, big mistake. What a horrible lump of c**p. The car was fully charged at the pickup point. But by the time we drove the 11 1/2 miles to our hotel in downtown Chicago, the range on the dash said we had 108 miles left, which would mean that the range was about 120 miles. That would mean that if you were on a highway on the way to a vacation, you'd be stopping in less than two hours if you can find a charger. After puttering around the city for about another 30-40 miles over the next couple of days, I got the warning signal on the dash saying that we were in the "reserve." The dash showed I had about 8 miles left on the charge, and I was worried I wouldn't make it back to the hotel. We googled quick charge stations in Chicago and after visiting 6 that didn't work, we finally found one in a hospital parking garage that was not a fast charging station, but at least we could leave it charging for 45 minutes or so and get a few miles so that we could get back to the hotel. After 45 minutes we got about 12 extra miles and decided to keep on looking since we were required to return the car fully charged on the next day as we travelled back to Los Angeles. Each of the first 6 stations were inside of pay to park parking garages, so I had already paid 6 times for nothing. Our 7th attempt was in a shopping center parking lot, and an hour stop there gave us a 100% charge. What an absolute pain in the arse. And the Mercedes, itself, even aside from the charging difficulties was just a horrible car. Terrible ergonomics, impossible to read or see HVAC controls, impossibly confusing radio controls, unnerving braking and decelerating sequence. When you remove your foot from the throttle pedal, the car essentially stops, no gentle crawl up to the stoplight, it just stops after a second or so. Throttle takes an inordinate amount of travel to engage, every bit of this EV experience guarantees that I will never buy, own, rent, sit in another EV as long as I am still using automobiles as transportation. I can't even imagine that all EVs feel this bad, I'll have to try my son-in-law's Tesla as a comparison, but I'll not be using an EV anytime soon. My guess is that by 2035, all electric vehicles will be a thing of the past anyway, as I don't see electrics as the future of the automobile's power source. It will undoubtedly shift to hydrogen powered sources.

I didn't believe Mercedes could build a car this poorly.

108 miles is fine- it’s only 106 miles to Chicago.

[Cerb420James]

I do wish the government would stick to maintaining the high streets and preventing crime rather than barking data they clearly do not understand.

By no means am I stirring the anti-ev pot, just thought process; (shortened for ease of reading).

I work in the automotive and aerospace industries, very closely with legislation that controls the use of hazardous substances.

My first point is a lingering ban on the mining of lithium salts due to its huge impact on human and environment health, interestingly not in the media… I can leave that for one to ponder upon.

Regarding the motor industry, I believe I can firmly say that it’s where the finger is pointing. It’s helpless. move pollution of earth and seas via all other means and sit the problem right on the public. Co2, It’s the people’s fault, they bought into an industry and they can correct it, simply with an alternative, that we BUY. It’s a win win. How good that alternative is, doesn’t matter. It keeps the public spending whilst actively “changing”. Years to come, will there be that familiar phrase “you may be entitled to compensation”. I can’t say.

‘Co2’, for the end user, the problem is not with the Co2, it’s a sheer lack of understanding. Take note of the colour of the verges next to the highways. The motor industry understands its Nox, the intricate systems on your engine are to reduce Nox, they do a good job too. Adblue on Eu6 engines reduces NOX by upto 80% reliably reducing this further becomes difficult, short of synthetic fuels ( of which HGV’s are already dosed with ). Co2 released during manufacture however….. and EV’s do not paint a pretty picture here. They do have their place though, clean air zones in population dense zones are somewhere to start, I don’t believe the passenger vehicle is the solution but the platform fits.

Manufacturing in the Eu believes this too, gov backed initiatives across the pond are sold in high efficiency ICe engines running zero net carbon fuels. We can farm fuel! Granted we are a way off this being 100% sustainable, but diverting gov funding down this route would as a whole be a much more sensible route. Making the cars already manufactured zero net carbon without the need to adapt them…. Yes please!

This comes around in a full circle… the drive to create an Ev market runs in tandem with ‘autonomous vehicles’ the SMMT made a statement recently - “70% of young people believe they will benefit from autonomous cars” other than this highlighting a possibility of young people getting boring, given that 75% of 17-25 year olds don’t hold a driving license I struggle to understand the statement. Is the plan to revoke the current statutory driving test, or perhaps another green washing ‘think tank’. Food for thought.

I once had a meeting with a representative from a battery manufacturing company and he proceeded to tell me how he can’t wait for the day he can walk out of his house and sit in his car, catching up on emails as it drives him to work… my immediate response was that is exactly what I rely on the rail network for, and it’s good at it (room for another rant there but I’ll hold off) We both laughed and continued the business meeting on the sole premises of why we were both there.

To conclude, there appears to be a multi-agenda at the cost of the end user. Until we have investigated all options, with a firm and honest end goal, no one should be stating anything. Certainly not the British government in its current state. It’ll be a bad to worse scenario.

Thanks for reading

[driveaway]

Cerb420James said:

I do wish the government would stick to maintaining the high streets and preventing crime rather than barking data they clearly do not understand.

By no means am I stirring the anti-ev pot, just thought process; (shortened for ease of reading).

I work in the automotive and aerospace industries, very closely with legislation that controls the use of hazardous substances.

My first point is a lingering ban on the mining of lithium salts due to its huge impact on human and environment health, interestingly not in the media… I can leave that for one to ponder upon.

Regarding the motor industry, I believe I can firmly say that it’s where the finger is pointing. It’s helpless. move pollution of earth and seas via all other means and sit the problem right on the public. Co2, It’s the people’s fault, they bought into an industry and they can correct it, simply with an alternative, that we BUY. It’s a win win. How good that alternative is, doesn’t matter. It keeps the public spending whilst actively “changing”. Years to come, will there be that familiar phrase “you may be entitled to compensation”. I can’t say.

‘Co2’, for the end user, the problem is not with the Co2, it’s a sheer lack of understanding. Take note of the colour of the verges next to the highways. The motor industry understands its Nox, the intricate systems on your engine are to reduce Nox, they do a good job too. Adblue on Eu6 engines reduces NOX by upto 80% reliably reducing this further becomes difficult, short of synthetic fuels ( of which HGV’s are already dosed with ). Co2 released during manufacture however….. and EV’s do not paint a pretty picture here. They do have their place though, clean air zones in population dense zones are somewhere to start, I don’t believe the passenger vehicle is the solution but the platform fits.

Manufacturing in the Eu believes this too, gov backed initiatives across the pond are sold in high efficiency ICe engines running zero net carbon fuels. We can farm fuel! Granted we are a way off this being 100% sustainable, but diverting gov funding down this route would as a whole be a much more sensible route. Making the cars already manufactured zero net carbon without the need to adapt them…. Yes please!

This comes around in a full circle… the drive to create an Ev market runs in tandem with ‘autonomous vehicles’ the SMMT made a statement recently - “70% of young people believe they will benefit from autonomous cars” other than this highlighting a possibility of young people getting boring, given that 75% of 17-25 year olds don’t hold a driving license I struggle to understand the statement. Is the plan to revoke the current statutory driving test, or perhaps another green washing ‘think tank’. Food for thought.

I once had a meeting with a representative from a battery manufacturing company and he proceeded to tell me how he can’t wait for the day he can walk out of his house and sit in his car, catching up on emails as it drives him to work… my immediate response was that is exactly what I rely on the rail network for, and it’s good at it (room for another rant there but I’ll hold off) We both laughed and continued the business meeting on the sole premises of why we were both there.

To conclude, there appears to be a multi-agenda at the cost of the end user. Until we have investigated all options, with a firm and honest end goal, no one should be stating anything. Certainly not the British government in its current state. It’ll be a bad to worse scenario.

Thanks for reading

Your welcome!
Nice informative read...!

[Cerb420James]

Thank you, you never know with these forums which way it’ll go. I never mean to upset anyone but do understand I can have a way with words 😂