RE: Marcos Engineering Appoints Administrator
Discussion
MitchT said:
After reviewing Marcos's business prospects and potential opportunities, the Company came to the conclusion that Administration of the Company would have the highest probability of returning the greatest value to its shareholders and creditors.
... and f**k the workers. Sums-up business these days.
Workers ARE classed as creditors, and preferential ones at that.... and f**k the workers. Sums-up business these days.
It seems the concept of the independant british sports car really is dead in the water, TVR gone, marcos gone, Even Noble despite having a class leading car, foundered, a real shame
Perhaps even more worrying is the fact that even the larger volume makers, jaguar & lotus both face uncertainty, only bently an rolls (both owned by big stable marque's) seem assured, i'l reserve judgement on Aston as it's too early to tell, but i cant see how they can go against the grain and make small volume production profitable without the support of a large parent, even ferrari would have gone to the wall had it not been for fiat
Perhaps even more worrying is the fact that even the larger volume makers, jaguar & lotus both face uncertainty, only bently an rolls (both owned by big stable marque's) seem assured, i'l reserve judgement on Aston as it's too early to tell, but i cant see how they can go against the grain and make small volume production profitable without the support of a large parent, even ferrari would have gone to the wall had it not been for fiat
thirsty said:
little-red-canam said:
. As for Marcos, they really tried, but no one was buying. I would have to think that their inability to get a dealership network may have been a contributing factor?
But .... I went into a dealer in Bicester to look at a glorious looking orange TSO
and the salesman didn't even bother to take down my details in order to let me know when I could see one that had an engine
RedTuscan said:
There are plenty of buyers for high performance cars. The simple fact is that the mainstream manufacturers have taken the market over with cars that are nearly as fast as the TVR/Marcos offerings, if not faster, cost the same or less to buy, are reliable, come with a 3 year guarantee from a manufacturer that is likely to be around for 3 years and one that has plenty of dealers. For sure they cost less to run too.
There are simply not enough people who are prepared to overlook a Cayman S or an SLK AMG 55 and buy something like a TVR/Marcos type car.
The trouble is, in Marcos' case there seem only to have been 3 such people and in TVR's much the same.
Dead right, most buyers of performace cars are not enthusiasts that are prepared to live with compromised build quality, bizarre maintenance requirements and limited comfort. If i was spending £60k on a car i would expect it to be watertight in the rain, warm in the winter, and supported by a dealer networks with parts availability etc.There are simply not enough people who are prepared to overlook a Cayman S or an SLK AMG 55 and buy something like a TVR/Marcos type car.
The trouble is, in Marcos' case there seem only to have been 3 such people and in TVR's much the same.
Interesting that both TVR and Marcos have died when they have started to price their cars at a similar level to offereings from porsche etc.
Surely, the best chance for the British Sportscar industry is to produce something like a MK1 Lotus Elise, quick and relatively cheap.
TVR_nut said:
First TVR, now Marcos.
All victims of the UK government's fixation with the "Speed Kills" (therefore those who drive performance cars are evil & reckless) message.
There must be some truth in that. An you can count in the media as well. Where do massively fast cars come from nowadays? Germany and Italy. Full stop. And the main reason is not the legal policy (or lack of execution of it in Italy's case) but the social response.All victims of the UK government's fixation with the "Speed Kills" (therefore those who drive performance cars are evil & reckless) message.
I actually had people flashing their lights at me today simply because I overtook them (I tried to be zen about their snail pace, but there's a limit to everything). I was driving a diesel for chrissakes. What would they have done had I thundered past in a Marcos or TVR? Lynch mobs with torches?
If a car brand hasn't got a home market to fall back on, it's over and done with.
Christ ! you lot just don't get the point £59,995 for a Marcos ? if Stelliga was a true enthusiast he would have kept the price to which the genuine enthusiasts could afford, around the £40k mark and would have set up a proper dealership network, I don't know which market he was aiming for, but at £60k you are in the big league with plenty of choice, I mean Porsche, Noble, ???? Marcos doesn't come close, I have had Marcos from the age of 17 when the insurance cost more than my 3ltr v6 did to buy, and I have had a total of 5 Marcos ranging from the 3ltr right through to the Mantis, so don't even go there, yes it is a tragic day for a wonderful car, and like I said another foreigner has fcuked it up. Rant over !!
little-red-canam said:
Christ ! you lot just don't get the point £59,995 for a Marcos ? if Stelliga was a true enthusiast he would have kept the price to which the genuine enthusiasts could afford, around the £40k mark and would have set up a proper dealership network, I don't know which market he was aiming for, but at £60k you are in the big league with plenty of choice, I mean Porsche, Noble, ???? Marcos doesn't come close, I have had Marcos from the age of 17 when the insurance cost more than my 3ltr v6 did to buy, and I have had a total of 5 Marcos ranging from the 3ltr right through to the Mantis, so don't even go there, yes it is a tragic day for a wonderful car, and like I said another foreigner has fcuked it up. Rant over !!
Because he could not sell it for £40,000 as it was built in the uk and the cost was high. I suspect he would have made a huge loss at £40,000 and only way to make a small profit is to go higherI was quite shocked to read this 
What with all the TVR debacle over the last couple of years I wishing well companies like Marcos. I thought they were doing well these days !?!
Indeed, a sad loss.
On a positive note though.... I hope, one day, these companies come back.... we can only hope..
G
What with all the TVR debacle over the last couple of years I wishing well companies like Marcos. I thought they were doing well these days !?!
Indeed, a sad loss.
On a positive note though.... I hope, one day, these companies come back.... we can only hope..
G
Ok i dont have the facts but here is how i see it.
1. It was about 10k too expensive, 10k more than a TVR Tuscan, the whole point of using a chevy V8 was to be reliable but most importantly cheap. The options were pricey too and before you know it the car is 60k. What i want to know is if they werent shifting the cars then why were the few avaibalble languishing in showrooms with a premium attached?
2. Production numbers. They had paid for R&D for the entire car from the ground up. They have the staff trained to build them. If they have got cracking and knocked out a few more cars and got them at every single media opportunity/shows/road test and got more people into the drivers seat. Lets face it the TSO is bloody fast. Yes ok they would need more ordered to make more cars but see point (1.).
3. Too small a range. Its well known that whatever a car company have to offer its the the bottom range of cars which make the most profit and sell the most - look at the TVR Chimeara and below that the S series, i dont know how much profit but they shifted plenty. Correct me if im wrong but the TS250 and TS500 havent been available for some time. That car was the natural replacement for a modern TVR long before they went out of business last year. TVR was going up in price and speed and there wasnt a cheapish V6/V8 alternative to replace the S/Chim - this is something that i thought the 250/500 offered. It wouldnt need to have anything cutting edge in it - a mustang V6 would do - will pass on emissions, sound good, go quick (210bhp) and have tuning options, then use a Cobra V8 for the top model which is still a cheap engine. Hell why not even have a 4 cyliner option and undercut the MX5. I quite fancy a TS250 but i think there are only about 2 in existance and i cant get my damn hands on one - hence my point.
My points mainly are just to keep the workers busy, keep the prices as low as possible, offer lots of (particularly model/engine) options as they can and ultimatley get as many cars in customer hands as possible. The TSO is a great Halo car but they spend a lot of money on making it appeal to mainstream (porsche etc) buyers who still wouldnt have one over a 911 and in the process push it (pricewise) out of the hands of the enthusiasts who buy them. Theres a pre-reg TSO in the calssifides for 60k - its one of my favourte cars but even if i had the money i wouldnt even consider it at that price.
1. It was about 10k too expensive, 10k more than a TVR Tuscan, the whole point of using a chevy V8 was to be reliable but most importantly cheap. The options were pricey too and before you know it the car is 60k. What i want to know is if they werent shifting the cars then why were the few avaibalble languishing in showrooms with a premium attached?
2. Production numbers. They had paid for R&D for the entire car from the ground up. They have the staff trained to build them. If they have got cracking and knocked out a few more cars and got them at every single media opportunity/shows/road test and got more people into the drivers seat. Lets face it the TSO is bloody fast. Yes ok they would need more ordered to make more cars but see point (1.).
3. Too small a range. Its well known that whatever a car company have to offer its the the bottom range of cars which make the most profit and sell the most - look at the TVR Chimeara and below that the S series, i dont know how much profit but they shifted plenty. Correct me if im wrong but the TS250 and TS500 havent been available for some time. That car was the natural replacement for a modern TVR long before they went out of business last year. TVR was going up in price and speed and there wasnt a cheapish V6/V8 alternative to replace the S/Chim - this is something that i thought the 250/500 offered. It wouldnt need to have anything cutting edge in it - a mustang V6 would do - will pass on emissions, sound good, go quick (210bhp) and have tuning options, then use a Cobra V8 for the top model which is still a cheap engine. Hell why not even have a 4 cyliner option and undercut the MX5. I quite fancy a TS250 but i think there are only about 2 in existance and i cant get my damn hands on one - hence my point.
My points mainly are just to keep the workers busy, keep the prices as low as possible, offer lots of (particularly model/engine) options as they can and ultimatley get as many cars in customer hands as possible. The TSO is a great Halo car but they spend a lot of money on making it appeal to mainstream (porsche etc) buyers who still wouldnt have one over a 911 and in the process push it (pricewise) out of the hands of the enthusiasts who buy them. Theres a pre-reg TSO in the calssifides for 60k - its one of my favourte cars but even if i had the money i wouldnt even consider it at that price.
little-red-canam said:
robbyt, maybe he should have got a load of Polish immigrants over to build the cars for him then, like I said, the car was too expensive and that's why it has ended up like this. Just out of interest does anybody know how many new Marcoses were sold ?
Polish maths don't work any more:When they first came over: £38/day labour, now £80/day 'cause eveyone luvs their work and they can get it!
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