Cebera 4.5.....0-60mph times
Discussion
I have a copy of fast lane magazine (anyone else remmember that one) from about 1987/88 (had a lister jag on the cover) with reviews of group B cars - the fastest to sixty was the Escort (yes escort not rs200) X-Trac (rallycross car by X-trac motorsport) it did sixty in 2.3 seconds if I remmember rightly. Something like 500-600bhp. Rally cross - where the group B car lives on.
Tim.
Tim.
The 4.5 should be quicker than a Tuscan S - check out the autocar 0-100-0 at
www.warrender.co.uk/afc_0013.htm
The Tuscan isn't exactly crawling along either.
Tim.
www.warrender.co.uk/afc_0013.htm
The Tuscan isn't exactly crawling along either.
Tim.
quote:
Is that true that some of the English police used RS200s?
Can't remember where I read this...
Actually, I'm sure I've seen pics of an RS200 in police livery with a light bar across the top. Don't know if it was just a publicity thing, but I'm sure it was after the group B had been banned or whatever happened to it, so they may have got them cheaper.
How's this for a quote from one of Guibo's own threads - 'Guibo......what did you say about not calling TVR's? You go-out of your way to try and put TVR's down......face it......only American's like Vipers......they big....thisty....heavy....and expensive.........you have no idea of how much they are laughed at over here and in fact over the world'
AMEN, and how true !!! very few people outside the US like yank tank's but people all over the world love Tiv's !!
AMEN, and how true !!! very few people outside the US like yank tank's but people all over the world love Tiv's !!
quote:
has anyone else got any more MPEGs of TVR's??
Don't want to fuel the TVR vs Dodge 'debate', but if you look at www.roop.ik.com > Index > Green V8S you'll see several of my in-car videos, including one at Loton Park where I took the unlimited roadgoing class record back from (ahem) a Viper.
Cheers,
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)
As the current owner of a TVR and the ex-owner of a Viper the TVR is a far superior car. Yep the Viper is quick, yep its nice looking and yes again it makes a nice noise.
Thing is, the Cerb has a lot of inertia, very quick revving engine. The Viper is quick but its nautical in the corners, seems laboured through its range, unengaging and generally speaking not in the same league.
Matt.
Thing is, the Cerb has a lot of inertia, very quick revving engine. The Viper is quick but its nautical in the corners, seems laboured through its range, unengaging and generally speaking not in the same league.
Matt.
quote:
quote:
has anyone else got any more MPEGs of TVR's??
Don't want to fuel the TVR vs Dodge 'debate', but if you look at www.roop.ik.com > Index > Green V8S you'll see several of my in-car videos, including one at Loton Park where I took the unlimited roadgoing class record back from (ahem) a Viper.
Cheers,
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)
Any chance that Viper had 450 hp?
The Cerbera on the JC video doing the standing mile at Bruntingthorpe against the 911, Viper, Aston Vantage, Caterham JPE, Esprit V8 etc al was a 4.2 running no cats. Don't forget, in real terms, there's b*gger all difference between the 4.2 and 4.5 really, the early 4.2 going harder than the early 4.5's in fact. The car was driven up Brunt's runway by John Ravenscroft (TVR Engine Designer and all round guru). Speaking to him after the event he admitted that he got the start absolutely nailed with minimal wheelspin and no bogging down. Just goes to show what the cars can do.
Reagrding the X-Trac Escort mentioned earlier, it was initially sponsored by Panasonic. I'm sure it was or certainly ended up in Will Gollop's hands at some point. On the subject of 0-60's Mr Gollop's 2.2 Biturbo 6R4 did a 2.2s to 60 (measured by a Datron 5th wheel, so accurate as you like). Not sure what the motor was as the 6R4's originally came with a 3litre V6 (what was later biturbo'd and used in the TWR XJ220 - It's a TWR NOT a Jag...!!!)
Roop
>> Edited by Roop on Tuesday 19th March 20:46
Reagrding the X-Trac Escort mentioned earlier, it was initially sponsored by Panasonic. I'm sure it was or certainly ended up in Will Gollop's hands at some point. On the subject of 0-60's Mr Gollop's 2.2 Biturbo 6R4 did a 2.2s to 60 (measured by a Datron 5th wheel, so accurate as you like). Not sure what the motor was as the 6R4's originally came with a 3litre V6 (what was later biturbo'd and used in the TWR XJ220 - It's a TWR NOT a Jag...!!!)
Roop
>> Edited by Roop on Tuesday 19th March 20:46
quote:
OK, my bad. Hp wouldn't have made much difference on such a short, tight hillclimb course. It's amazing any Viper could set any kind of record on that type of course.
You'd be surprised how much difference BHP makes. We're going from about 40 MPH at the bottom of the back straight to 100+ at the top, which is a flat-out drag up quite a long, steep hill. Power really matters here. The other straights are long enough and steep enough to get a real power advantage too. For similar cars in this category, it works out at about 1 second advantage per extra 35 BHP. I figure I get some advantage over the Viper in the twisty bits from having a narrower and lighter car that (presumably) corners better, and is geared lower allowing me to make better use of the little power I have. I imagine the Viper was making up ground on the straights. I have no idea what spec the Viper was, sorry. Incidentally, I didn't beat the Viper by much and as far as I know no other TVRs have beaten it since, there have been attempts in a Cerbera 4.2 and Cerbera Sp6, but not (yet) in a Cerbera 4.5.
The X-Trac Rallycross Escort was driven and developed by Martin Schanke, he also tackled events overseas like Pikes Peak in it, and it was road-legal!! There is a great story of him nailing a modded Corvette at the lights in the States on his way to Pikes Peak.
Will Gollops Peugeot is also an amazing car, having witnessed it at the Autosport Show Arena a few years back, he was hitting, I believe over 85mph on the tight indoor circuit.
Remember too a lot of the acceleration off the line is due to the skill of the driver getting the car cleanly off the line.
Will Gollops Peugeot is also an amazing car, having witnessed it at the Autosport Show Arena a few years back, he was hitting, I believe over 85mph on the tight indoor circuit.
Remember too a lot of the acceleration off the line is due to the skill of the driver getting the car cleanly off the line.
I agree with the "a good 4.2 is as good as a 4.5" theory. Based on Duxford last year my 50,000 mile 4.2 was as fast as anything out there (except Martin's Tuscan when the correct gears were selected!) 
Even at the top end approaching 140 no-one was pulling ahead. If you want to really see what they will do Duxford is a wondeful strip. Lots of grip and lots of grass just in case !
Even at the top end approaching 140 no-one was pulling ahead. If you want to really see what they will do Duxford is a wondeful strip. Lots of grip and lots of grass just in case !quote:Please note that an RT10 Viper is a lot (90%) differnet to a 1996 on- GTS Coupe,dampers/springs race spec/lighter than RT 10/More power than RT 10.And if my gran was driving then i guess it could be beaten by a TVR .Having owned a Cerbera before the Viper (GTS VENOM 550BHP)it would blow my old Cerbera into the weeds!!!and pulls stronger above 100 mph,in fact at 165MPH it still keeps you pushed well back in the seat!.Had my Cerbera on a rolling road before i sold it(speed six...nuff said) and TVR Qouted 360 bhp at the flywheel but it was only giving 337bhp,at lot but not 360 as qouted!Love my Viper,over the TVR any day,and with £260 for a full service/ build quality of a Tank/Better resale value/rare only 50 in the U.K/Thumps up and waves from everyone/lower insurance/7 year warranty/better fuel consumption on a run(100mph=1400rpm)I can,t think of any reason to ever buy another TVR.(Except maybe an old Cobra engined). Tuscan
quote:
OK, my bad. Hp wouldn't have made much difference on such a short, tight hillclimb course. It's amazing any Viper could set any kind of record on that type of course.
You'd be surprised how much difference BHP makes. We're going from about 40 MPH at the bottom of the back straight to 100+ at the top, which is a flat-out drag up quite a long, steep hill. Power really matters here. The other straights are long enough and steep enough to get a real power advantage too. For similar cars in this category, it works out at about 1 second advantage per extra 35 BHP. I figure I get some advantage over the Viper in the twisty bits from having a narrower and lighter car that (presumably) corners better, and is geared lower allowing me to make better use of the little power I have. I imagine the Viper was making up ground on the straights. I have no idea what spec the Viper was, sorry. Incidentally, I didn't beat the Viper by much and as far as I know no other TVRs have beaten it since, there have been attempts in a Cerbera 4.2 and Cerbera Sp6, but not (yet) in a Cerbera 4.5.
quote:Well Yes it is only 3years for European models but in the states...7 years!!True!.
How the hell do you get a 7-year warranty on a Viper? Even in the States, you can get a 7-year warranty on Neons, Voyagers, and Ram trucks, but the only warranty I've seen for the Viper is a 3-year warranty.
Well, I have driven a Viper and all of the current model TVR's. Each to their own Venom500 but the Viper was the biggest dissapointment and the slowest track day car I have ever driven. Dreadfull gearchange, horrendous steering and driving position and all the cornering capabilities of a 1970 Volvo Estate. A Lotus Elise would kick it's sorry ass round any track let alone the latest TVR's. I also had a race on the French motorway with one in my Cerbera and sat on it's arse for two miles backing off so I didn't crash into the back of it.....
To be fair it's a totally different kind of car. Each to their own but don't tell me it's quicker than a Cerbera, it's not even as fast as a Tuscan or Tamora. As Benno said on another thread, we spotted one at Rockingham with a "At 200 mph you have no friends" that's because if you tell outrageous lies about your car, no-one wants to be your friend
To be fair it's a totally different kind of car. Each to their own but don't tell me it's quicker than a Cerbera, it's not even as fast as a Tuscan or Tamora. As Benno said on another thread, we spotted one at Rockingham with a "At 200 mph you have no friends" that's because if you tell outrageous lies about your car, no-one wants to be your friend
Look at the comments posted above. It was TVR's engine guru (and Tuscan Challenge racer) at the wheels of the TVR. Who was driving the other 5-6 cars? What were their skill levels?
And the rumors have been addressed on the EVO forums and on these very forums as well:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=7177&f=6&h=0
There was mention that the 4.2 in that video ran without cats. If that's the case, how do we square it away with the final comment here?:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=5345&f=6&h=0
Below is a chart using information from TopGear and C&D. The 4.2 in this test was a bit slower than the one tested by Autocar. In fact, below about 100 mph, the one in Autocar was quicker than the 4.5, and gave up very little to the 4.5 even at the 150 mph mark. The Viper there is the 450-hp US-spec RT/10 as tested by C&D. Its Cd is something like 0.52 vs. 0.36 for the GTS coupe.
MT has done 3 standing mile tests with the US Viper. All have come in at or under 30.9 seconds, with the best being a 30.1 @ 173 mph, continuing on to a 193 mph top speed.
And the rumors have been addressed on the EVO forums and on these very forums as well:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=7177&f=6&h=0
There was mention that the 4.2 in that video ran without cats. If that's the case, how do we square it away with the final comment here?:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=5345&f=6&h=0
Below is a chart using information from TopGear and C&D. The 4.2 in this test was a bit slower than the one tested by Autocar. In fact, below about 100 mph, the one in Autocar was quicker than the 4.5, and gave up very little to the 4.5 even at the 150 mph mark. The Viper there is the 450-hp US-spec RT/10 as tested by C&D. Its Cd is something like 0.52 vs. 0.36 for the GTS coupe.
MT has done 3 standing mile tests with the US Viper. All have come in at or under 30.9 seconds, with the best being a 30.1 @ 173 mph, continuing on to a 193 mph top speed.
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