4 Valves per cylinder ?
Discussion
a1rak said:
Boosted Cerb said:
But... I'm disappointed there aren't more engine boffs on this forum 
Come on boys I expected better.... Ford 32v V8 heads as found in new Mustang or GT Ford, double water outlets give it away
Rich.
Come on boys I expected better.... Ford 32v V8 heads as found in new Mustang or GT Ford, double water outlets give it away
Rich.
I did mention this engine well back in this thread. By the way has Peter Wheeler from up above had any influence on the marketing and power claims for this engine? seems like it came Straight out of a TVR sales brochure. 700bhp really? Ferarri need 12 cylinders and god knows how much development time and money to achieve this. I wish all involved the best of luck and watch with interestI guess these heads run Duratec cam phasing so in standard form will generate wider and longer power output. Running with knock sensors and smart ECU etc would allow for cam timing to be optimised both on and off the cam and run right at the edge.
Volume flow hasn't been a big issue with the AJP head as it has been with the S6 so these heads must bring more than just a flow increase in order to deliver such a growth in performance.
That's kinda what I expressed earlier as my own quiet caution. As everyone knows the AJP has a very high specific output compared to many other engines around. It's specific output has been bettered recently, but not by a huge amount and pretty much always by a much larger organisation with a core team of professionals and a budget to match.
The projected NA power output claims would indeed be better than Ferrari's current specific outputs. That's not to say it can't be done, and perhaps with emissions not being a particular interest in this case there's a challenge for the big manufacturers that these guys don't have to worry about. Even still, the proof will be on the dynomometer.
I'll be impressed if significant all-round improvements can be made on the original AJP specs, and these guys will deserve a LOT of praise from the AJP community.
The projected NA power output claims would indeed be better than Ferrari's current specific outputs. That's not to say it can't be done, and perhaps with emissions not being a particular interest in this case there's a challenge for the big manufacturers that these guys don't have to worry about. Even still, the proof will be on the dynomometer.
I'll be impressed if significant all-round improvements can be made on the original AJP specs, and these guys will deserve a LOT of praise from the AJP community.
Walford said:
Looks like you found the secret heads 
As usual the issue when doing this will be space. The suspension was always in the way and exhaust will be a packaging problem once it can be done.
It's always going to be easier and cheaper to just slot in an LS9 though.
Again, watching with interest but struggling to see how the claimed NA BHP figures would be reached.
There is talk of 8000RPM? with an AJP block I would have said that was not highly recommended, and the extra 16 valve won't actually do much for the power output as the standard heads have plenty of flow to allow BHP figures of 500+ any way, the extra valves may make the engine more refined but huge amounts of extra power I can not see whare that would come from other than forced induction and if you go forced induction it is normally more reliable to increase boost pressure rather than RPM.
I will be interested to see how this goes, if all is well and a couple of engines have made decent power and reliability then I am up for it.
There is talk of 8000RPM? with an AJP block I would have said that was not highly recommended, and the extra 16 valve won't actually do much for the power output as the standard heads have plenty of flow to allow BHP figures of 500+ any way, the extra valves may make the engine more refined but huge amounts of extra power I can not see whare that would come from other than forced induction and if you go forced induction it is normally more reliable to increase boost pressure rather than RPM.
I will be interested to see how this goes, if all is well and a couple of engines have made decent power and reliability then I am up for it.
m4tti said:
Is that the engine they brand as the "coyote" 4v 5.0L
I believe so, yes. The Coyote 'crate' engine is very competitively priced over here since there are a number of drag series that use this as a control engine. Clearly that engine has a fairly good specific output in NA form and it certainly produced the beans in FI form in the Ford GT.I am surprised that the bore spacing and everything lines up, exactly. I had always assumed the Ford engine would be 'larger' than the AJP.
Walford said:
Interesting that he bought aftermarket heads...mikesr said:
Maybe he fitted AJP heads
LOL... How much NA power can be produced with the AJPV8 heads on a 4.7 bottom end? 500bhp with a little work? Are there cams etc available?I assume there are a ton of aftermarket options (cams etc) for the Coyote heads with them being so popular in the US.
I might pick up a Hot Rodder magazine this week and take a look...
m4tti said:
Those ford cams though wont have the necessary profile for a flat plane crank will they?
I mentioned that, earlier in this thread... I presume not. However, blanks here will be pretty cheap and there will be a good knowledge of what profiles etc work, I suspect. You can often find a flat-plane crank 'kit' for some of these yank V8s as a lot of guys race with them and want to eek every last horsepower from them. There's certainly one available for the LSx series.I'm still surprised how compact the Coyote must be, for these heads to fit. Pity it is so (relatively) wide. Would be a good engine for an Ultima or alike. Rousch do a 600bhp supercharged engine off the shelf for $18k or so (and I suspect they are the more expensive end of the market).
Looking forward to seeing more developments on this thread.
itsallyellow said:
You can't go much further than the race cam on an AJP anyway. Can't see that being a source of power.
Mike
But the cam phasing will allow a very toppy cam so as to eek wider torque and higher bhp and retaining usability at low rpm. Mike
If tuned 4.7 AJPs are able to get 450 then reaching 500 with such a modern head shouldn't be impossible.
The 700 bhp part, I've assumed is using FI, maybe incorrectly. But with FI you don't typically retain the VVT as it serves little purpose. In addition, if you are forcing air in then a head that can flow more doesn't really bring any more to the party.
Unless this head is a serious step change up from the AJP I can't see why under FI the two would differ much in delivery?
Differences between AJP and Ford heads aside for a moment, the specific power outputs being spoken about here are very high - significantly higher than pretty much everyone else who build high performance flat plane crank V8s can achieve. What technology can Ford heads offer that Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes Benz, BMW and Audi/Lamborghini don't know about? Or is it purely a case of the power projections for this new engine assuming that it'll run without any of the emissions control features that the above manufacturers have to cope with for type approvals?
Apart from being able to play with valve overlap and reduce the need to compromise on cam phasing, I can't really see anything else which represents a significant improvement on the existing AJP heads, since it's well established that the AJP heads are not the bottleneck.
Apart from being able to play with valve overlap and reduce the need to compromise on cam phasing, I can't really see anything else which represents a significant improvement on the existing AJP heads, since it's well established that the AJP heads are not the bottleneck.
As i understand it the power figures are always a little hard to predict.
They`ve run a dyno program on the 4.7 AJP engine with race cams ported heads ect it made maximum power of
of 426 bhp @ 7000 rpm and 372 ft lbs of torque @ 5000 rpm this is with tube headers and full exhaust system, this is the same program as used with the 4 valve heads .Just as a comparison they ran the same program as a 4.5 with just high lift cams 4 v heads and tube headers and full exaust system the power figures were 480 @ 7500 rpm and 391 ft lbs torque @ 5000 rpm .
They`ve run a dyno program on the 4.7 AJP engine with race cams ported heads ect it made maximum power of
of 426 bhp @ 7000 rpm and 372 ft lbs of torque @ 5000 rpm this is with tube headers and full exhaust system, this is the same program as used with the 4 valve heads .Just as a comparison they ran the same program as a 4.5 with just high lift cams 4 v heads and tube headers and full exaust system the power figures were 480 @ 7500 rpm and 391 ft lbs torque @ 5000 rpm .
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