Body Lift Methods?
Discussion
I'm slowly talking myself into lifting the body off my Cerb. I've got the car on axle stands with the gearbox, diff, and rear suspension off to sort some rust and replace the 2nd gear synchro in the box. However when I think about the amount of time it's going to take with a wire wheel and sandpaper to clean off all the tubing, as well as doing the front suspension at some point, I do wonder if I'm better off spending my time removing the chassis and sending it to be blasted.
I've seen photos of a few body lifts done with an engine hoist lifting the front via a wooden plank placed through the front wheel arches, and a 2nd hoist lifting a plank placed in the boot. Unfortunately I don't have the space in my garage for such an arrangement. I also don't have the option of using a winch to lift the body towards the garage roof as there aren't any joists suitably located, even assuming they'd bear the weight. Further complicating matters is the fact the engine is still fitted as I'd not planned on a body lift when I started this little refurb. The body will
If I was to remove the front suspension, place a plank through the front wheel arches and use 2x bottle jacks to lift the front end, combined with a plank under the boot floor and 2x bottle jacks, spaced wide enough to allow the chassis to fit between them, to lift the rear of the body would that work without damaging the body? I'd then be able to wheel the chassis (with engine still fitted) out of the garage onto the driveway to get the engine out and begin the refurb from there.
I've seen photos of a few body lifts done with an engine hoist lifting the front via a wooden plank placed through the front wheel arches, and a 2nd hoist lifting a plank placed in the boot. Unfortunately I don't have the space in my garage for such an arrangement. I also don't have the option of using a winch to lift the body towards the garage roof as there aren't any joists suitably located, even assuming they'd bear the weight. Further complicating matters is the fact the engine is still fitted as I'd not planned on a body lift when I started this little refurb. The body will
If I was to remove the front suspension, place a plank through the front wheel arches and use 2x bottle jacks to lift the front end, combined with a plank under the boot floor and 2x bottle jacks, spaced wide enough to allow the chassis to fit between them, to lift the rear of the body would that work without damaging the body? I'd then be able to wheel the chassis (with engine still fitted) out of the garage onto the driveway to get the engine out and begin the refurb from there.
The thing to remember is that the body doesn't lift straight up, it needs to tilt somewhat
If you haven't seen the timelapse videos already they're worth a look
They also show very clearly that working without sufficient space will be problematic at best
Having been involved in these efforts I have vowed never to do a body lift on my own car
https://vimeo.com/48726971
https://vimeo.com/64001222
If you haven't seen the timelapse videos already they're worth a look
They also show very clearly that working without sufficient space will be problematic at best
Having been involved in these efforts I have vowed never to do a body lift on my own car
https://vimeo.com/48726971
https://vimeo.com/64001222
I was thinking more like the method used in this threadto support the body. I assume it's ok left supported under the boot floor and front wheel arches? I have some space either side, but not really front to back. I'm tempted to jack the complete car up to a height where I can drop the chassis and engine out underneath, using 4x bottle jacks, 1 in each corner of the chassis, to enable some tilting. So effectively a chassis drop rather than a body lift. Thoughts anyone?
I'm in the same place as you, Will. What started out as an engine bay 'refresh' turned into a whole spring and summer of wasted weekends getting my chassis back to bare metal, only to have the paint (POR15) pickle up due to the heat/ humidity. So my advice is, don't try it with the body on. Ironically, I too was given this advice by another PHer, but I thought I knew better!
My body is ready to lift and I too am considering various methods.
My immediate response to your suggestion of 'dropping the chassis down on bottle jacks' is, DON'T! Bottle jacks are incredibly unstable at the best of times, but as soon as you introduce any angle (as with the need to lower them at different rates)...they WILL topple. Trolley jacks would be better, certainly more stable, and their ability to move around would be a benefit (especially when refitting), but they would need to be very 'high-lift'.
Probably the ideal method is the TVR one of 8 pissed-up rugby playing mates, as the heights/angles of lift are infinitely adjustable and you could just stand back and bark your orders!
Then there are threads with pics somewhere on PH of lifts using both metal and wooden scaffolding , the latter being 'peggable' at various heights. Possibly no longer viewable thanks to Photo Bucket though...
But as I don't have eight mates, I think I will be lifting mine on slings from a crane fore and aft, using large timber to spread the loads under the inner wings etc.
Good luck.
My body is ready to lift and I too am considering various methods.
My immediate response to your suggestion of 'dropping the chassis down on bottle jacks' is, DON'T! Bottle jacks are incredibly unstable at the best of times, but as soon as you introduce any angle (as with the need to lower them at different rates)...they WILL topple. Trolley jacks would be better, certainly more stable, and their ability to move around would be a benefit (especially when refitting), but they would need to be very 'high-lift'.
Probably the ideal method is the TVR one of 8 pissed-up rugby playing mates, as the heights/angles of lift are infinitely adjustable and you could just stand back and bark your orders!
Then there are threads with pics somewhere on PH of lifts using both metal and wooden scaffolding , the latter being 'peggable' at various heights. Possibly no longer viewable thanks to Photo Bucket though...
But as I don't have eight mates, I think I will be lifting mine on slings from a crane fore and aft, using large timber to spread the loads under the inner wings etc.
Good luck.
TwinKam said:
I'm in the same place as you, Will. What started out as an engine bay 'refresh' turned into a whole spring and summer of wasted weekends getting my chassis back to bare metal, only to have the paint (POR15) pickle up due to the heat/ humidity. So my advice is, don't try it with the body on. Ironically, I too was given this advice by another PHer, but I thought I knew better!
My body is ready to lift and I too am considering various methods.
My immediate response to your suggestion of 'dropping the chassis down on bottle jacks' is, DON'T! Bottle jacks are incredibly unstable at the best of times, but as soon as you introduce any angle (as with the need to lower them at different rates)...they WILL topple. Trolley jacks would be better, certainly more stable, and their ability to move around would be a benefit (especially when refitting), but they would need to be very 'high-lift'.
Probably the ideal method is the TVR one of 8 pissed-up rugby playing mates, as the heights/angles of lift are infinitely adjustable and you could just stand back and bark your orders!
Then there are threads with pics somewhere on PH of lifts using both metal and wooden scaffolding , the latter being 'peggable' at various heights. Possibly no longer viewable thanks to Photo Bucket though...
But as I don't have eight mates, I think I will be lifting mine on slings from a crane fore and aft, using large timber to spread the loads under the inner wings etc.
Good luck.
Thanks, thats bottle jacks out then. Maybe a couple of trolley jacks with a lifting beam such as the below to control the chassis descent? What sort of angle is required for the chassis to clear the engine bay? Looks like I could set the 2x pads at different heights to create the angle.My body is ready to lift and I too am considering various methods.
My immediate response to your suggestion of 'dropping the chassis down on bottle jacks' is, DON'T! Bottle jacks are incredibly unstable at the best of times, but as soon as you introduce any angle (as with the need to lower them at different rates)...they WILL topple. Trolley jacks would be better, certainly more stable, and their ability to move around would be a benefit (especially when refitting), but they would need to be very 'high-lift'.
Probably the ideal method is the TVR one of 8 pissed-up rugby playing mates, as the heights/angles of lift are infinitely adjustable and you could just stand back and bark your orders!
Then there are threads with pics somewhere on PH of lifts using both metal and wooden scaffolding , the latter being 'peggable' at various heights. Possibly no longer viewable thanks to Photo Bucket though...
But as I don't have eight mates, I think I will be lifting mine on slings from a crane fore and aft, using large timber to spread the loads under the inner wings etc.
Good luck.
https://www.sgs-engineering.com/garage-equipment/t...
4x farm jacks would be a lot cheaper and would enable a body lift type separation of body/chassis, but I guess they're just as unstable as bottle jacks?
https://www.sgs-engineering.com/garage-equipment/f...
Edited by CerbWill on Wednesday 13th December 12:15
Re the bottle jacks/ farm jacks: Consider a four legged table where the legs weren't screwed to the table-top. That's effectively what you'd have! = disaster.
But if each 'leg' (jack) had a massive base (trolley jack)... the legs would then be more stable, however the table top (body) could still slide about/off...
I'm not sure how the jacking beam would help, they are great for lifting one end of a car where there is no central lifting point, but the chassis will get in the way if you are trying to lift the body off. Plus I don't think you're going to get the height, not with standard (C£100) trolley jacks anyway, and high lift trolley jacks are dear.
I favour the four post 'frame' with all 4 posts tied together at their bases (like an upturned table) with the ability to peg the two horizontal beams at any point then, when jacking up to the next point, it won't fall very far if a jack does slip. Then perhaps a farm jack or two would work. Or indeed ratchet straps, which I have also seen used for this.
But if each 'leg' (jack) had a massive base (trolley jack)... the legs would then be more stable, however the table top (body) could still slide about/off...
I'm not sure how the jacking beam would help, they are great for lifting one end of a car where there is no central lifting point, but the chassis will get in the way if you are trying to lift the body off. Plus I don't think you're going to get the height, not with standard (C£100) trolley jacks anyway, and high lift trolley jacks are dear.
I favour the four post 'frame' with all 4 posts tied together at their bases (like an upturned table) with the ability to peg the two horizontal beams at any point then, when jacking up to the next point, it won't fall very far if a jack does slip. Then perhaps a farm jack or two would work. Or indeed ratchet straps, which I have also seen used for this.
Yup. I like the post idea I've linked to above for holding the body at a decent height and level, 1 bar/plank under the boot floor, another under the front wheel arches and 4x posts. I can achieve that with my current trolley jack and blocks of wood to raise the jacking height before building the 4x post supports. Question is how to get the chassis down safely from there. I'd wondered about 2x trolley jacks with jacking beams,1x front and 1x rear, to control the chassis descent after you pointed out the instability of bottle jacks. I wonder whether simply bolting bottle jacks to a large wooden base would provide the required stability to lower the chassis at at the angle needed to clear the engine bay?
I could also attempt a body lift using the 4x post frame method as you describe, however that'd mean having to tilt the body to clear the chassis and then you run into the same danger of the body slipping sideways as with the chassis and TBH damaging the body is a prospect that scares me far more.
I could also attempt a body lift using the 4x post frame method as you describe, however that'd mean having to tilt the body to clear the chassis and then you run into the same danger of the body slipping sideways as with the chassis and TBH damaging the body is a prospect that scares me far more.
I misunderstood your use of the jacking beams... thank you for clarifying... you intend to lower the chassis from the already raised body (not lift the body off and up). But trolley jacks aren't so stable sideways (along their length)... especially as you will tip the chassis in this direction. Also the beam (on ones that I've seen) only drops into a hole on the jack, it's not bolted on as it's not intended to be rocked.
Don't underestimate the masses (and therefore forces) involved... like you I am trying to work out the least risky method; the only thing I'm dreading more than the separation, is the reunion ...where everything is freshly painted!
Don't underestimate the masses (and therefore forces) involved... like you I am trying to work out the least risky method; the only thing I'm dreading more than the separation, is the reunion ...where everything is freshly painted!
CerbWill said:
Yup it's difficult. For anyone else reading, what size wood did you use to make the frame to hold the body?
Yes, but don't forget that you will be supporting the weight of the entire car on yours prior to It would be interesting to know the weights of the body and chassis separately, anyone?...
Is it not an option to do it on your drive using engine cranes, then put it onto a wooden base with wheels on, or make something out of scaffolding, then wheel back in garage. You can get all the bolts etc undone in the garage, so you probably only want 2 - 24 hours outside lifting the body off.
CerbWill said:
Annoyingly I have a gravel drive so manoeuvrability would be tricky. It'd also have to be quite sturdy so it didn't collapse when pushed as gravel means quite a lot of friction.
Scafold boards as tracks and round fence posts as rollers got my ton and half lift up a gravel drive into the garage. I did drop my chassis out of the car but had sturdy joists in the garage to do it.Good luck!
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I think 2 engine hoists is easiest, can do it alone if needed but I would recommend a helper if available. I need to find the time to update and finish the thread as the cars now back on the road
I think 2 engine hoists is easiest, can do it alone if needed but I would recommend a helper if available. I need to find the time to update and finish the thread as the cars now back on the road
CerbWill said:
Yup it's difficult. For anyone else reading, what size wood did you use to make the frame to hold the body?
The frame that I made, which was the one used for my own body lift and the one in the video, was 100mm square fence posts (with carpet to protect the bodywork) I can post pics later today showing the construction if that helps.Having done two body lifts (3 if you count doing one of them twice!) I wouldn't even contemplate doing it any other way than engine hoists and trolley jacks. It is big, heavy, unstable and needs to be tilted at alarming angles to come off and back on. I took the body off with my car sat on a gravel drive then rolled the chassis into the garage to work on it. I bought a cheap cover and strapped it well round the body on the stand while I did the chassis work. The body came to no harm over the entire winter before reassembly in the spring.
If you lift your body in your garage, will you have space to do the necessary work on the chassis?
Edited by Tanguero on Thursday 14th December 09:45
Tanguero, yes please for some photos! As for working on the chassis I'm planning to have it (& wishbones, brackets etc) blasted and painted elsewhere before bringing it back home. I was planning to do the bare minimum assembly (diff, brake lines, fuel lines, vacuum lines, steering rack) before refitting the chassis. I'm planning on replacing the tunnel heatshield with self adhesive acoustic heatshield from Woolie's trim as used by LincsCerb some years ago and there should be plenty of room to get under the body when it's on it's support frame. When the body and chassis are once again together I'll drop it back down to axle stands, refit the suspension then push it out the garage for the engine/gearbox re-fit. Yes this is the harder way of doing it but TBH the rear suspension came off mine pretty easily and I've removed/refitted the engine before so with clean shiny components & new bolts I don't see too many issues? Am I being a bit thick there?
Thanks everyone for contributing ideas although I've thought of an even better reason to not get the car out of the garage, it has no rear suspension; wishbones, hubs, etc are off and I've removed the bushes. I suppose I could make some sort of trolley to support the back of the car but this is more expense making kit I'm only going to use once. I've obviously hamstrung myself by walking into a body off rather than planning to do it from the start and I'm sure some of these ideas will help out other owners in slightly different situations but for me, now, its making the best of what I've got.
I've given it a bit more thought and realised I'd missed the possible simple solution to the instability of bottle jacks. I could bolt them to the concrete floor of my garage as I already have some anchors and bolts left over from constructing a car port. With the jacks secured to the floor I'd then lower the chassis stably with the body supported on a wooden frame. I've got 2-3 feet each side of the car but little room front to back, so there's room for a 4 post wooden frame.
Thanks everyone for contributing ideas although I've thought of an even better reason to not get the car out of the garage, it has no rear suspension; wishbones, hubs, etc are off and I've removed the bushes. I suppose I could make some sort of trolley to support the back of the car but this is more expense making kit I'm only going to use once. I've obviously hamstrung myself by walking into a body off rather than planning to do it from the start and I'm sure some of these ideas will help out other owners in slightly different situations but for me, now, its making the best of what I've got.
I've given it a bit more thought and realised I'd missed the possible simple solution to the instability of bottle jacks. I could bolt them to the concrete floor of my garage as I already have some anchors and bolts left over from constructing a car port. With the jacks secured to the floor I'd then lower the chassis stably with the body supported on a wooden frame. I've got 2-3 feet each side of the car but little room front to back, so there's room for a 4 post wooden frame.
Edited by CerbWill on Thursday 14th December 11:09
The thought of trying to lift it on bottle jacks terrifies me regardless of what they are bolted to. A lot of the advantage of lifting with a hoist is that you can swing, tilt and manoeuvre the body on the straps. Fixed jacks would make that impossible, with the potential result of the body or lifting beam slipping off the jacks or not being able to separate the body at all! How high will bottle jacks go? You need to be able to clear the top rail of the chassis with room to manoeuvre. My experience is that it is anything but a straight lift, you have to be able to "wriggle" the body free of the chassis.
Hi Will
How strong is your garage roof and how much height do you have?
I used a couple of 1 tonne chain hoists and put a plank of wood in the boot and another under the inner wings (engine was out) it was easy to lift and could be maneuvered side to side to help it come off and go back on.
Chain hoists were only cheap £25ish. If your ever up in the Louth area your welcome to borrow them.
How strong is your garage roof and how much height do you have?
I used a couple of 1 tonne chain hoists and put a plank of wood in the boot and another under the inner wings (engine was out) it was easy to lift and could be maneuvered side to side to help it come off and go back on.
Chain hoists were only cheap £25ish. If your ever up in the Louth area your welcome to borrow them.
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