Gallardo cat sucking
Discussion
Hoofy said:
Thanks both for thinking about this. Not sure what the option is then.
Steps:1. Choose car, take for inspection
2. Have bores examined for any damage
3. Buy car if you like it
4. Change cats immediately to remove the risk of any failure if it worries you.
Sports cats will be cheaper.
Hammersia said:
I shall add this to the list of threads that make owning a Lambo sound very stressful.
I heard similar concerns about the gransport grounding and shattering their ceramic pre cats, and if the internet is to be believed we had the only 100,000 mile MR2 roadster in the country that hadn't eaten itself.And apart from SG54 and 4321GO there are very few people put the miles on these things to reveal all the faults.
ex-devonpaul said:
Hammersia said:
I shall add this to the list of threads that make owning a Lambo sound very stressful.
I heard similar concerns about the gransport grounding and shattering their ceramic pre cats, and if the internet is to be believed we had the only 100,000 mile MR2 roadster in the country that hadn't eaten itself.And apart from SG54 and 4321GO there are very few people put the miles on these things to reveal all the faults.
andrew said:
ex-devonpaul said:
Hammersia said:
I shall add this to the list of threads that make owning a Lambo sound very stressful.
I heard similar concerns about the gransport grounding and shattering their ceramic pre cats, and if the internet is to be believed we had the only 100,000 mile MR2 roadster in the country that hadn't eaten itself.And apart from SG54 and 4321GO there are very few people put the miles on these things to reveal all the faults.
Trev450 said:
If the market demand is similar to the R8, and I would imagine it is, then spyders sell for less than coupes.
Oh right. I just saw spyders as more exotic/fancy/flash/expensive for some reason. In fact, any soft top version of a sports coupé. Mind you, I just prefer coupés for the style... with a sunroof!
That said, spyder Gallardos do look good with the roof down!
Hoofy said:
Trev450 said:
If the market demand is similar to the R8, and I would imagine it is, then spyders sell for less than coupes.
Oh right. I just saw spyders as more exotic/fancy/flash/expensive for some reason. In fact, any soft top version of a sports coupé. Mind you, I just prefer coupés for the style... with a sunroof!
That said, spyder Gallardos do look good with the roof down!
Trev450 said:
Hoofy said:
Trev450 said:
If the market demand is similar to the R8, and I would imagine it is, then spyders sell for less than coupes.
Oh right. I just saw spyders as more exotic/fancy/flash/expensive for some reason. In fact, any soft top version of a sports coupé. Mind you, I just prefer coupés for the style... with a sunroof!
That said, spyder Gallardos do look good with the roof down!
But certainly, cruising around Monaco in a Gallardo Spyder has to be a pleasant experience!
Hoofy said:
jeremyc said:
Full gory details of a rebuild following cat ingestion are here courtesy of 4321go.
Thanks. Sounds like the car owned by JayEmm (YouTube)?I’ve owned mine for almost 10 years now. And whilst it’s covered 117,000 miles, I’d argue that it’s one of the best in the country. It’s driven almost as a daily and maintained regardless of cost. Post engine and gearbox rebuild (done as a precaution, as although I’d decatted it previously, I wasn’t happy with the level of oil consumption caused by the bore scoring) Craig, the well-known dealer principal at Lamborghini Pangbourne declared that it pulled as hard as a Huracan in third, with the best manual ‘box he’d ever experienced in a Lambo. David, the chief technician at Pangbourne, with nearly 20 years experience with the marque, told me just last month that if he had the money, mine’s one of just two customer’s cars that he’d like to own. The other being a Diablo SE Jota that he also maintains!
4321go said:
Hoofy said:
jeremyc said:
Full gory details of a rebuild following cat ingestion are here courtesy of 4321go.
Thanks. Sounds like the car owned by JayEmm (YouTube)?I’ve owned mine for almost 10 years now. And whilst it’s covered 117,000 miles, I’d argue that it’s one of the best in the country. It’s driven almost as a daily and maintained regardless of cost. Post engine and gearbox rebuild (done as a precaution, as although I’d decatted it previously, I wasn’t happy with the level of oil consumption caused by the bore scoring) Craig, the well-known dealer principal at Lamborghini Pangbourne declared that it pulled as hard as a Huracan in third, with the best manual ‘box he’d ever experienced in a Lambo. David, the chief technician at Pangbourne, with nearly 20 years experience with the marque, told me just last month that if he had the money, mine’s one of just two customer’s cars that he’d like to own. The other being a Diablo SE Jota that he also maintains!
The cat problem is entirely limited to the 5.0 litre (“pre-LP”) cars. The later 5.2 litre, Audi-built engine (the 5.0 was built for Lamborghini by Cosworth) has a completely different exhaust header/cat arrangement.
If you’re in the market for one, then any bore scoring “might” be evident as blue smoke on cold start-up. Or a cloud of smoke in the rear-view mirror when you really floor it! But really, the only way to know is to borescope the engine, one cylinder at a time, through the spark plugs holes.
The first pic shows the scoring of one of my bores, as photographed by Rick (REPerformance) using a borescope, during his “due diligence” whilst we debated whether to rebuild or not. The second shows the scoring more clearly, once the block was stripped. Meanwhile, my lengthy thread linked to elsewhere in this thread, goes into all the detail you’ll ever need as to what this is all about, why it happens, which cars it affects, etc…..
If you’re in the market for one, then any bore scoring “might” be evident as blue smoke on cold start-up. Or a cloud of smoke in the rear-view mirror when you really floor it! But really, the only way to know is to borescope the engine, one cylinder at a time, through the spark plugs holes.
The first pic shows the scoring of one of my bores, as photographed by Rick (REPerformance) using a borescope, during his “due diligence” whilst we debated whether to rebuild or not. The second shows the scoring more clearly, once the block was stripped. Meanwhile, my lengthy thread linked to elsewhere in this thread, goes into all the detail you’ll ever need as to what this is all about, why it happens, which cars it affects, etc…..
Edited by 4321go on Wednesday 8th February 18:40
Ps:
Every time this comes up, I get at least one indignant owner tell me that I’ve just devalued their car. And that theirs isn’t, and won’t be, affected
.
Let’s be clear: if you’ve got a 5.0 litre, pre-LP Gallardo with the original cats fitted, then the cats WILL disintegrate. And the exhaust gas flow is such that this material WILL then be sucked back into the cylinders. At best, this will cause bore scoring. At worst, the engine will be destroyed! Talk to any of the knowledgeable independents and they’ll tell you the same. They’re not trying to “up sell”; it just is. FWIW, the pre-LP cars have very old-tech cats. Each is about the volume of a small watermelon, whereas the later car’s are around the volume of a tennis ball.
But they’re GREAT cars!! The engine is way more charismatic than the later 5.2 (which, for the avoidance of doubt, is a COMPLETELY different engine). And the whole car is much more raw and visceral than the later Huracan (IMHO ).
If you have one, de-cat it immediately, or fit Larini Sport Cats. If you’re thinking of buying one, have a good look at the exhaust at start-up. They all emit a puff of smoke immediately after start from cold. But how long does it last for? Is it excessive? When the engine is warm, blip the throttle. Is there a subsequent cloud of smoke? If so, the bores may well be scored. If not, and if the rest of the car checks out, buy it. And then de-cat it as above.
And a little scoring isn’t going to be much of a problem! Although I didn’t know it at the time, my bores were almost certainly very badly scored when I bought the car with 42,000 miles on the odometer. That’s why I was pouring over 2 litres of oil into it, per 1000 miles driven. And the consumption increased to over 4 litres per thousand miles by the time I realised the cause, at 96,000 miles. That’s when I de-catted the car. It was only at 106,000 miles that I decided to have the engine rebuilt, because I just wasn’t happy pouring all that oil in any more. Bore scoring didn’t really affect the power output, although the smoking had become rather embarrassing by that point. But leaving the old-tech cats in place just could lead to catastrophic failure (as has been the case for a good few owners; ask Rick at REP, Sunny at BHP or the chaps at BDM).
Every time this comes up, I get at least one indignant owner tell me that I’ve just devalued their car. And that theirs isn’t, and won’t be, affected
.Let’s be clear: if you’ve got a 5.0 litre, pre-LP Gallardo with the original cats fitted, then the cats WILL disintegrate. And the exhaust gas flow is such that this material WILL then be sucked back into the cylinders. At best, this will cause bore scoring. At worst, the engine will be destroyed! Talk to any of the knowledgeable independents and they’ll tell you the same. They’re not trying to “up sell”; it just is. FWIW, the pre-LP cars have very old-tech cats. Each is about the volume of a small watermelon, whereas the later car’s are around the volume of a tennis ball.
But they’re GREAT cars!! The engine is way more charismatic than the later 5.2 (which, for the avoidance of doubt, is a COMPLETELY different engine). And the whole car is much more raw and visceral than the later Huracan (IMHO
).If you have one, de-cat it immediately, or fit Larini Sport Cats. If you’re thinking of buying one, have a good look at the exhaust at start-up. They all emit a puff of smoke immediately after start from cold. But how long does it last for? Is it excessive? When the engine is warm, blip the throttle. Is there a subsequent cloud of smoke? If so, the bores may well be scored. If not, and if the rest of the car checks out, buy it. And then de-cat it as above.
And a little scoring isn’t going to be much of a problem! Although I didn’t know it at the time, my bores were almost certainly very badly scored when I bought the car with 42,000 miles on the odometer. That’s why I was pouring over 2 litres of oil into it, per 1000 miles driven. And the consumption increased to over 4 litres per thousand miles by the time I realised the cause, at 96,000 miles. That’s when I de-catted the car. It was only at 106,000 miles that I decided to have the engine rebuilt, because I just wasn’t happy pouring all that oil in any more. Bore scoring didn’t really affect the power output, although the smoking had become rather embarrassing by that point. But leaving the old-tech cats in place just could lead to catastrophic failure (as has been the case for a good few owners; ask Rick at REP, Sunny at BHP or the chaps at BDM).
4321go said:
The cat problem is entirely limited to the 5.0 litre (“pre-LP”) cars. The later 5.2 litre, Audi-built engine (the 5.0 was built for Lamborghini by Cosworth) has a completely different exhaust header/cat arrangement.
If you’re in the market for one, then any bore scoring “might” be evident as blue smoke on cold start-up. Or a cloud of smoke in the rear-view mirror when you really floor it! But really, the only way to know is to borescope the engine, one cylinder at a time, through the spark plugs holes.
The first pic shows the scoring of one of my bores, as photographed by Rick (REPerformance) using a borescope, during his “due diligence” whilst we debated whether to rebuild or not. The second shows the scoring more clearly, once the block was stripped. Meanwhile, my lengthy thread linked to elsewhere in this thread, goes into all the detail you’ll ever need as to what this is all about, why it happens, which cars it affects, etc…..
Thanks. Yikes. Have bookmarked that thread to read in one sitting when I get the chance!If you’re in the market for one, then any bore scoring “might” be evident as blue smoke on cold start-up. Or a cloud of smoke in the rear-view mirror when you really floor it! But really, the only way to know is to borescope the engine, one cylinder at a time, through the spark plugs holes.
The first pic shows the scoring of one of my bores, as photographed by Rick (REPerformance) using a borescope, during his “due diligence” whilst we debated whether to rebuild or not. The second shows the scoring more clearly, once the block was stripped. Meanwhile, my lengthy thread linked to elsewhere in this thread, goes into all the detail you’ll ever need as to what this is all about, why it happens, which cars it affects, etc…..
Edited by 4321go on Wednesday 8th February 18:40
4321go said:
Ps:
Every time this comes up, I get at least one indignant owner tell me that I’ve just devalued their car. And that theirs isn’t, and won’t be, affected ..
When I sold my fantastic pre-LP two years ago it was displaying no symptoms of cat failure. It I had kept it I was poised to stick the Larinis in there. As you say these are brilliant cars and that engine is orchestral. I do miss it and I hope it’s had the cat swap. Every time this comes up, I get at least one indignant owner tell me that I’ve just devalued their car. And that theirs isn’t, and won’t be, affected
..4321go said:
Ps:
Every time this comes up, I get at least one indignant owner tell me that I’ve just devalued their car. And that theirs isn’t, and won’t be, affected .
Let’s be clear: if you’ve got a 5.0 litre, pre-LP Gallardo with the original cats fitted, then the cats WILL disintegrate. And the exhaust gas flow is such that this material WILL then be sucked back into the cylinders. At best, this will cause bore scoring. At worst, the engine will be destroyed! Talk to any of the knowledgeable independents and they’ll tell you the same. They’re not trying to “up sell”; it just is. FWIW, the pre-LP cars have very old-tech cats. Each is about the volume of a small watermelon, whereas the later car’s are around the volume of a tennis ball.
But they’re GREAT cars!! The engine is way more charismatic than the later 5.2 (which, for the avoidance of doubt, is a COMPLETELY different engine). And the whole car is much more raw and visceral than the later Huracan (IMHO ).
If you have one, de-cat it immediately, or fit Larini Sport Cats. If you’re thinking of buying one, have a good look at the exhaust at start-up. They all emit a puff of smoke immediately after start from cold. But how long does it last for? Is it excessive? When the engine is warm, blip the throttle. Is there a subsequent cloud of smoke? If so, the bores may well be scored. If not, and if the rest of the car checks out, buy it. And then de-cat it as above.
And a little scoring isn’t going to be much of a problem! Although I didn’t know it at the time, my bores were almost certainly very badly scored when I bought the car with 42,000 miles on the odometer. That’s why I was pouring over 2 litres of oil into it, per 1000 miles driven. And the consumption increased to over 4 litres per thousand miles by the time I realised the cause, at 96,000 miles. That’s when I de-catted the car. It was only at 106,000 miles that I decided to have the engine rebuilt, because I just wasn’t happy pouring all that oil in any more. Bore scoring didn’t really affect the power output, although the smoking had become rather embarrassing by that point. But leaving the old-tech cats in place just could lead to catastrophic failure (as has been the case for a good few owners; ask Rick at REP, Sunny at BHP or the chaps at BDM).
Thanks for the tips.Every time this comes up, I get at least one indignant owner tell me that I’ve just devalued their car. And that theirs isn’t, and won’t be, affected
.Let’s be clear: if you’ve got a 5.0 litre, pre-LP Gallardo with the original cats fitted, then the cats WILL disintegrate. And the exhaust gas flow is such that this material WILL then be sucked back into the cylinders. At best, this will cause bore scoring. At worst, the engine will be destroyed! Talk to any of the knowledgeable independents and they’ll tell you the same. They’re not trying to “up sell”; it just is. FWIW, the pre-LP cars have very old-tech cats. Each is about the volume of a small watermelon, whereas the later car’s are around the volume of a tennis ball.
But they’re GREAT cars!! The engine is way more charismatic than the later 5.2 (which, for the avoidance of doubt, is a COMPLETELY different engine). And the whole car is much more raw and visceral than the later Huracan (IMHO
).If you have one, de-cat it immediately, or fit Larini Sport Cats. If you’re thinking of buying one, have a good look at the exhaust at start-up. They all emit a puff of smoke immediately after start from cold. But how long does it last for? Is it excessive? When the engine is warm, blip the throttle. Is there a subsequent cloud of smoke? If so, the bores may well be scored. If not, and if the rest of the car checks out, buy it. And then de-cat it as above.
And a little scoring isn’t going to be much of a problem! Although I didn’t know it at the time, my bores were almost certainly very badly scored when I bought the car with 42,000 miles on the odometer. That’s why I was pouring over 2 litres of oil into it, per 1000 miles driven. And the consumption increased to over 4 litres per thousand miles by the time I realised the cause, at 96,000 miles. That’s when I de-catted the car. It was only at 106,000 miles that I decided to have the engine rebuilt, because I just wasn’t happy pouring all that oil in any more. Bore scoring didn’t really affect the power output, although the smoking had become rather embarrassing by that point. But leaving the old-tech cats in place just could lead to catastrophic failure (as has been the case for a good few owners; ask Rick at REP, Sunny at BHP or the chaps at BDM).
Just to add my ha'penny worth I've had my 2004 manual coupe for five years. It was given 'cat replacement pipes' at 25K miles and now stands at 46K miles with oil use about 0.25L/1000 miles. As has been said above these are fantastic cars with a great sound from any one of many aftermarket exhausts and a lovely slick manual with the latest clutches. I'm sure that you can buy a troublesome car and have a nightmare but they do seem to me to be a fairly straightforward Italian. One has to spend to keep them in the right condition but it's not a chore because problems are few and fairly simple to fix in my experience. 4321go has much more extensive experience given his mileage. I would always advise buying one of the many cars which have had early cat replacements.
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