Would I be mad to buy a 360CS at current prices?

[rubystone]

456mgt said:

I owned both

And drove them like he stole them...Auto Italia convoy back in 2005...how I laughed as Kevin hammered by my 308 in his CS. I think he knows what's he's talking about, my friend...

[subirg]

456mgt said:

I owned both

That's wonderful. And, to my mind at least, makes your comments even more difficult to understand!

Clearly we aren't going to agree on this. That's fine. As for the collector world - only time will tell who is right or wrong on that one!

[100 IAN]

LA458SP said:

The CS was made in less numbers than Scud and Speciale so I believe will be the most collectable of those cars in years to come, however they wont be worth 2-3 times that of a Scud or Speciale as is now the case with the 288GTO vs F40. Whilst the CS is the rarest the production numbers aren't drastically different i.e. 119RHD CS vs 140(ish)RHD Scud vs 280(ish)RHD Speciale.

Mike Wheeler at Rardley quoted me 119 UK CS's, 164 UK Scud's and 333 UK Speciale's

There are of course other RHD markets so the number of RHD cars is higher than the above numbers, by how many 'who knows' but i'm guessing it would be in proportion to the above numbers.

[AmoCS]

http://www.challengestradale.co.uk/cs12.htm

[LA458SP]

100 IAN said:

Mike Wheeler at Rardley quoted me 119 UK CS's, 164 UK Scud's and 333 UK Speciale's

There are of course other RHD markets so the number of RHD cars is higher than the above numbers, by how many 'who knows' but i'm guessing it would be in proportion to the above numbers.

Pity Ferrari stopped publishing production numbers for these cars after CS. My own research led me to the numbers I quoted, but I could also accept they could be as high as you've quoted for scud and speciale. Nobody truly knows (outside Ferrari), for example DK Engineering have previously stated 136 uk Scuds...

[madd0g]

there are private buyers out there who are looking for the right car, me being one of them for a uk RHD car, flexible on colour and spec, please PM me if your thinking of having a change,

Edited by madd0g on Thursday 4th May 14:48

[Shazbat]

subirg said:

456mgt said:

Don't agree with any of that mate. It's a better set up 360 Modena and pretend hardcore, unlike an F40 or any RS for instance. Fine if you absolutely must have a Ferrari with a stripe.

Have to disagree and your examples are contradictory to your point as well. The F40 is a completely different car to anything else. The RS is actually very similar in philosophy to the 360CS in that they are both based off more humble base cars. You wouldn't go far wrong by comparing the 360 CS and the 996GT3 RS. Both similar in philosophy. Both nothing like their base model equivalents and valued by the collector world for this reason.

To call a CS a 'better set up 360 Modena' just shows a basic lack of understanding of the differences between the models. Perhaps a quick google search would help you understand this from a tech spec point of view. Or better still have a back to back ride in them. The differences are much more significant than you might think.

The 996 RS is twice the car. The real deal. MGT is spot on.

[roygarth]

subirg said:

Have to disagree and your examples are contradictory to your point as well. The F40 is a completely different car to anything else. The RS is actually very similar in philosophy to the 360CS in that they are both based off more humble base cars. You wouldn't go far wrong by comparing the 360 CS and the 996GT3 RS. Both similar in philosophy. Both nothing like their base model equivalents and valued by the collector world for this reason.

To call a CS a 'better set up 360 Modena' just shows a basic lack of understanding of the differences between the models. Perhaps a quick google search would help you understand this from a tech spec point of view. Or better still have a back to back ride in them. The differences are much more significant than you might think.

Absolutely. As far as Ferrari are concerned the Challenge Stradale is not even a 360. Unlike the 430 Scuderia and 458 Speciale, its simply a Challenge Stradale.

[EpsomJames]

Some of the comments on this thread remind me of a thread on Fchat a while ago where one guy was trying to argue the Challenge Stradale was a completely different car to the 360. Make your own mind up.

http://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/modern-v8s-360-f...

[MDL111]

roygarth said:

subirg said:

Have to disagree and your examples are contradictory to your point as well. The F40 is a completely different car to anything else. The RS is actually very similar in philosophy to the 360CS in that they are both based off more humble base cars. You wouldn't go far wrong by comparing the 360 CS and the 996GT3 RS. Both similar in philosophy. Both nothing like their base model equivalents and valued by the collector world for this reason.

To call a CS a 'better set up 360 Modena' just shows a basic lack of understanding of the differences between the models. Perhaps a quick google search would help you understand this from a tech spec point of view. Or better still have a back to back ride in them. The differences are much more significant than you might think.

Absolutely. As far as Ferrari are concerned the Challenge Stradale is not even a 360. Unlike the 430 Scuderia and 458 Speciale, its simply a Challenge Stradale.

That is very much Ferrari marketing imo
You can get a 360 very close to a CS, but you will have a tough time turning a 996 into an RS thanks to truly different engines as opposed to swapping out a few parts

[roygarth]

Perhaps, bearing in mind the run of the mill nature of a plain vanilla 996 compared with a 360, the comparison should more realistically be between 996GT3 Mk2 V RS? Coincidentally the original retail and market price deltas are more in line with those for 360 V CS.

You could argue it's daft to pay double and more for an RS as there really is little difference between the 2 Porsche's - drop links, plastic rear screen....sound familiar?

[MDL111]

roygarth said:

Perhaps, bearing in mind the run of the mill nature of a plain vanilla 996 compared with a 360, the comparison should more realistically be between 996GT3 Mk2 V RS? Coincidentally the original retail and market price deltas are more in line with those for 360 V CS.

You could argue it's daft to pay double and more for an RS as there really is little difference between the 2 Porsche's - drop links, plastic rear screen....sound familiar?

That I think makes it a lot more comparable - just a further development of the car and price differential likely not entirely warranted (purely driving perspective wise)

[15HN]

There's almost a £100k delta between the RS and CS and that's what makes the current prices of the stradale silly, so much so I would change my focus to the Porsche. Reading the comments in the link below brings back some memories.

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/general-pistonhea...

[baypond]

interesting comparison, but does it say actually that the CS is correct price and the 996 GT3RS is too cheap? What about my 930 Turbo vs 996 GT3 RS, is the 930 Turbo totally overpriced or the 996 GT3 RS again too cheap?

[355fiorano]

Assuming efficient markets the price is what it is and it reflects all the factors that influence price (how good it is to drive, rarity, mileage-sensitivity etc). There are enough cars and enough money/credit out there so at the right price deals will be done.

There are always punters that are on either side of the overpriced/underpriced debate. Their knowledge, experience, speculation, own inclinations etc is what effects their opinion.

I do not think that I can convince anyone of the opposite mindset. I can only re-enforce someones own convictions that may be similar to mine.

I bought the CS a I thought is was worth the current premium, and a totally different car to the 360 (as per subirg's comments). I had no inclination to get a 360 and change it.

I didn't consider the 996 GT3 RS as I am biased against them and in general the whole 996 range. I would consider a 997 GT3 RS as an addition or a Scud if I could ever find the money.

But that's just me.

In terms of investment, based on my experience I think the CS will rocket in value at some point because it is awesome and "they don't make them like that anymore" and all that.... but I hope the values just stay put or reduce in the mid term, so I an continue to enjoy the car without worrying about mileage, spares costs etc. If it goes to a value above my pay grade, I would need to sell and I REALLY don't want to do that.

Edited by 355fiorano on Monday 8th May 21:29

[baypond]

I took the CS to Brands Hatch yesterday, and thought about how soon the car would pass the 20k miles mark. I wondered how much it might knock of the value of the car. Then I thought back to the numerous conversations where I have told anyone that will listen, that this is a car I will never sell.
So, if logic prevails, and I really am not going to sell it, then why would I would be worried about it's value at all? I should just drive it, and it's mileage will be what it is, and it's value too. So that it was i'm going to do. Drive it when I want to drive it, and never sell it.

[baypond]

15HN said:

There's almost a £100k delta between the RS and CS and that's what makes the current prices of the stradale silly, so much so I would change my focus to the Porsche. Reading the comments in the link below brings back some memories.

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/general-pistonhea...

or .... http://www.challengestradale.co.uk/cs23.htm

[baypond]

or http://www.challengestradale.co.uk/cs9.htm
which really is worth a look

[baypond]

thanks AMOCS

[roygarth]

15HN said:

There's almost a £100k delta between the RS and CS and that's what makes the current prices of the stradale silly, so much so I would change my focus to the Porsche. Reading the comments in the link below brings back some memories.

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/general-pistonhea...

Interestingly on Mobile.de LHD prices of 996 GT3RS and Challenge Stradale are very similar. Not quite sure what this tell us?