Supercar Sales Drop By Two Thirds

[murphyaj]

Bispal said:

... Lamborghini will become badge engineering for VAG...

You could made a credible argument this has already happened. Last year 58% of all lamborghinis sold, an overall majority, were built on the VW group MLB Evo platform, the same one they use to make the VW Tuareg and Audi Q7. Plus they were fitted with the same V8 turbo engine they put in tens of thousands of Audis a year.

[Cheib]

MDL111 said:

Not really interested in any of the new cars - sure with unlimited money, I would buy some, but as that is not the case there are too many older cats I’d rather have

This, It is hard to argue that new cars are better than their immediate predecessors….on a basic level they don’t sound as good…then they are generally heavier than what preceded them. There’s also the issue of our roads especially in cities like London….plenty of people in London own very expensive metal but the widespread 20 mph zones etc really are making life pretty dull for car owners. I moved out of London about eight years ago….best thing I ever did as someone that loves cars.

[fridaypassion]

A whole swathe of potential buyers are out of the game now I will be one of them in the coming 18 months. I think I'm a fairly typical modern supercar buyer always financed. I always put big deposits in and go for low monthlies so my current 600LT is £500 PCM. That same car on the same type of deal today is £1000 give or take and for me that's more than I want to spend so when my current deal is up it will be bye bye McLaren I have zero interest in taking out car financing at 12%. I will probably go old school and either swap out a couple of cars or just save pennies for a 458 and that will be it then that's the one I would keep long term.

[supersport]

Bispal said:

fridaypassion said:

ChocolateFrog said:

Got nothing to do with the super rich and everything to do with the availability and cost of credit to the moderately rich.

Nail/head

<snip/>

Goodness knows what we will drive, probably all be happy if we are allowed to drive an MX5!

My son has a mk1 MX5 I love it, so it won't all be bad

[WCZ]

MDL111 said:

Not really interested in any of the new cars - sure with unlimited money, I would buy some, but as that is not the case there are too many older cats I’d rather have

this, there's nothing appealing at all that's new in the supercar world aside from possibly the aston valhalla
but there's probably about 100+ cars I'd like to own from the past, i'd rather spend £70k on a 575 ferrari and just see how it is, sell it and move on than spend £500k on the new lambo inc options

[TP321]

WCZ said:

this, there's nothing appealing at all that's new in the supercar world aside from possibly the aston valhalla
but there's probably about 100+ cars I'd like to own from the past, i'd rather spend £70k on a 575 ferrari and just see how it is, sell it and move on than spend £500k on the new lambo inc options

Agree - i think there is only so much a weekend toy can cost. I feel they have moved up another bracket or so (Revuelto, SF90..), meaning that even with a bit of man math financing they are out of reach.

I wonder if this is why GT3s and Turbos have become more popular (sub £200k)

[murphyaj]

TP321 said:

Agree - i think there is only so much a weekend toy can cost. I feel they have moved up another bracket or so (Revuelto, SF90..), meaning that even with a bit of man math financing they are out of reach.

Back in 2005 I was a newly graduated engineer, on a fairly typical starter salary of £25000. Ferrari had just released the a new mid-engined V8 model, the F430, which started at £117000. I couldn't afford one at the time, but i could definitely see myself affording one at some point. If I planned my finances properly, and saved up, it felt like it was absolutely in reach.

Fast forward to 2023, and a newly graduated engineer can expect to earn about £30000. The current mid-engined V8 Ferrari, the SF90, costs £375000. To someone in the same position I was in that may as well be a million, it's not a dream car it's a fantasy car. The 296 is meant to be the entry level car, a new model line below the V8 flagships, but even that is a quarter of a million.

[mat205125]

bryn_p said:

Gnevans said:

Article in today’s Times.

Supercar registrations fell by two thirds March 22-23 660 odd registered whilst in the previous year it was circa1900.

Does the article define what they are counting as a supercar?

Genuine question, not meaning to open a massive can of worms... again

It's a valid point, as I wonder whether products like the Porsche Taycan or it's Audi cousin are included into the stats.

Whilst I'd not include them into my definition of a supercar, I do see people peacocking that kind of car, who might have previously had something "whoopier" sounding with two seats

[Nuttbelle]

mat205125 said:

It's a valid point, as I wonder whether products like the Porsche Taycan or it's Audi cousin are included into the stats.

Whilst I'd not include them into my definition of a supercar, I do see people peacocking that kind of car, who might have previously had something "whoopier" sounding with two seats

Porsche and audi's are not SUPERCARS unless its a 918/CGT

[mat205125]

Nuttbelle said:

mat205125 said:

It's a valid point, as I wonder whether products like the Porsche Taycan or it's Audi cousin are included into the stats.

Whilst I'd not include them into my definition of a supercar, I do see people peacocking that kind of car, who might have previously had something "whoopier" sounding with two seats

Porsche and audi's are not SUPERCARS unless its a 918/CGT

...... hence the question about what the authors of the article were categorising

[TP321]

murphyaj said:

Back in 2005 I was a newly graduated engineer, on a fairly typical starter salary of £25000. Ferrari had just released the a new mid-engined V8 model, the F430, which started at £117000. I couldn't afford one at the time, but i could definitely see myself affording one at some point. If I planned my finances properly, and saved up, it felt like it was absolutely in reach.

Fast forward to 2023, and a newly graduated engineer can expect to earn about £30000. The current mid-engined V8 Ferrari, the SF90, costs £375000. To someone in the same position I was in that may as well be a million, it's not a dream car it's a fantasy car. The 296 is meant to be the entry level car, a new model line below the V8 flagships, but even that is a quarter of a million.

And in 2005, the F430 was as good as you could get (bar an Enzo and a Porsche GT). There was no Pagani, no Koenigsegg...The market is now saturated with million pound plus hypercars.

[samoht]

mat205125 said:

...... hence the question about what the authors of the article were categorising

Gnevans said:

Between them, Bugatti, Ferrari, Koenigsegg, Lamborghini and McLaren had about 19,500 cars on the road by the end of March this year

It's not absolutely explicitly stated, but I assume the list of brands in the article text represents those classified as 'supercars'. I don't know if the Urus was included, I assume so.

[f1ten]

296gtbs are easy 300k with list. I was in the showroom this week. The game and.emtry price has gone up considerably. At 300k it's a huge leap over let's say a 2016 488gtb at 160k. It's also a hug potential for losing £100k in a blink.

[Nuttbelle]

New Huracan replacement is a V8 Hybrid and will be £300k + with sensible options.
Prices have shot up way more than 10% inflation as the new hybrid tech is expensive.
Can only help used car residuals long term

[mirsgarage]

f1ten said:

296gtbs are easy 300k with list. I was in the showroom this week. The game and.emtry price has gone up considerably. At 300k it's a huge leap over let's say a 2016 488gtb at 160k. It's also a hug potential for losing £100k in a blink.

Not just potential, that's the expectation at this point. I have a 296 GTS on order and it will very likely take a 70-80k bath.

[Nuttbelle]

mirsgarage said:

Not just potential, that's the expectation at this point. I have a 296 GTS on order and it will very likely take a 70-80k bath.

Ouch !
Who would of thought it on the latest and greatest new Ferrari.

Combination of soft market, high list price and acceptance of hybrid technology being the normal going forward.

As I have said before RIP the supercar.
May as well all have Teslas or Kias

[mirsgarage]

Nuttbelle said:

Ouch !
Who would of thought it on the latest and greatest new Ferrari.

Combination of soft market, high list price and acceptance of hybrid technology being the normal going forward.

As I have said before RIP the supercar.
May as well all have Teslas or Kias

I mean, this is just the norm. Going back to 30 years ago. Even 20 years ago. Hell, even 10 years ago. We have lived in eras with Porsche RS cars depreciating, not so long ago. Every big V12 Ferrari, depreciating. 458 Speciales couldn't be given away when they were new. Just par for the course in a relatively normal economy. Not sure why the expectation is that a used, mass produced, luxury good hold it's value well.

Also, if you've ever driven a 296 on track, and open roads, you'd agree it's a bona-fide supercar. Mind bending and an absolute pleasure to drive. Have owned everything at this point, McLarens, Lamborghinis, etc etc etc. Performantes and such and such. The 296 is up there. Doesn't sound as nice, but that's the only negative point - and in that light, I actually think it sounds much nicer than the more "normal" McLarens. Pleasing.

[Nuttbelle]

Personally i think sound is far more important part of suoercar experience than outright speed at todays levels.

Combination of lack of sound and hefty weight kills a hybrid for me.
It could have 2000 bhp and go 0 to 60 in 1 sec and I still wouldn't be interested.
It's such a shame it's going this way at same time as more and more speed cameras.

Future cars Re also getting speed limiters as standard which will put further nail in the supercar coffin

[Jangos garage]

I do feed the new supercars are too expensive now and the lack of a good sounding engine and the feed back from steering. I ended up buying over the last few years a Noble m600, 430 scuderia and a diablo sv. Might not be the fastest cars around but driving pressure is 10 out 10

[Jangos garage]

I do feed the new supercars are too expensive now and the lack of a good sounding engine and the feed back from steering. I ended up buying over the last few years a Noble m600, 430 scuderia and a diablo sv. Might not be the fastest cars around but driving pressure is 10 out 10