Ferrari F40 Values - Past and Present

[chevronb37]

TISPKJ said:

chevronb37 said:

It seems ludicrous not to want to get out there and drive the thing. If I was in the fortunate position of owning an F40 it'd be used hard and fast on road and track whenever humanly possible. Might as well own a model otherwise.

I don't know your personal circumstances ( ie how much money you have ) but I don't think you would, I used to love a track day, did a few in my GT3 and loads in my old 993, prior to that think I did one in a new boxster, I have done none in the 355 and doubt any in the 360.
To me as the stakes get higher the risk reward just does not stack up, imagine saving most of your life for your £400k F40 and then having an off on track, I would imagine it would knock maybe 100k or more off of its value.
Not exactly a cheap day out :-) I can see both sides of the story but unlikely my F40 will be doing track days unless I had 3 or 4 of them or funds equal too.

My personal circumstances are that I can't afford an F40! I've always said that some of the value in my parents' estate would be used to fund an F40 but the way values are going that might not be possible.

I can understand (and fully respect) your reticence but it's just a car. They can be fixed easily enough. My old shed is actually much rarer than an F40 - and in the same way sensitive to mileage - but it's a car to be driven. I realise I might be trivialising the kind of value we're talking here but I grew up watching F40s racing in Maranello Challenge and BPR GTs - and in the unlikely event that I ever own one - I'd like to get it out on track and drive it as intended. I cannot get close to the limit of my old shed on the road, let alone something with the dynamic capabilities of an F40. I'd want, even if just a few times, to get it out on track to enjoy it unshackled. I can see your point about an accident but you'd have to have a simply monumental accident to do too much damage.

I suppose I'm in a slightly peculiar mental place at the moment. In the last couple of years three of my closest friends have passed away - all in their 20s. I'm afraid it has given me a completely different view of the world. I don't want to lie on my death bed thinking "if only..."

Still, there are dreamers and there are doers. I'm a dreamer so will probably never get to find out! Enjoy your F40 but don't pamper it too much - it's a driving tool as much as anything else. Envy consumes me.

[JazzyO]

wtdoom said:

Be careful im pretty sure that's at the same place I tried to buy the black dtm from , walk away . Now .

A friend who owns a 458 confirms they are scammers.


Onno

[Camlet]

chevronb37 said:

What I will never understand is folk buying one of the best driver's cars of all time but putting such a premium on low miles.

It seems ludicrous not to want to get out there and drive the thing. If I was in the fortunate position of owning an F40 it'd be used hard and fast on road and track whenever humanly possible. Might as well own a model otherwise.

You're absolutely correct. Then you buy one and find another 15,000 miles might knock £100,000 off its value. Pain in the ass. And honestly I wish I had the balls not to care. Only consolation is it makes the moments you do take her out all the more special.

[Justices]

Irish said:

Koji Aoyama. A living, breathing (and very rich) effeminate anime character come to life. Legend, with a car collection to match.

If there's any doubt an F40 needs to get on to a track, even though you've all seen this, doubt no more

[TISPKJ]

chevronb37 said:

TISPKJ said:

chevronb37 said:

It seems ludicrous not to want to get out there and drive the thing. If I was in the fortunate position of owning an F40 it'd be used hard and fast on road and track whenever humanly possible. Might as well own a model otherwise.

I don't know your personal circumstances ( ie how much money you have ) but I don't think you would, I used to love a track day, did a few in my GT3 and loads in my old 993, prior to that think I did one in a new boxster, I have done none in the 355 and doubt any in the 360.
To me as the stakes get higher the risk reward just does not stack up, imagine saving most of your life for your £400k F40 and then having an off on track, I would imagine it would knock maybe 100k or more off of its value.
Not exactly a cheap day out :-) I can see both sides of the story but unlikely my F40 will be doing track days unless I had 3 or 4 of them or funds equal too.

My personal circumstances are that I can't afford an F40! I've always said that some of the value in my parents' estate would be used to fund an F40 but the way values are going that might not be possible.

I can understand (and fully respect) your reticence but it's just a car. They can be fixed easily enough. My old shed is actually much rarer than an F40 - and in the same way sensitive to mileage - but it's a car to be driven. I realise I might be trivialising the kind of value we're talking here but I grew up watching F40s racing in Maranello Challenge and BPR GTs - and in the unlikely event that I ever own one - I'd like to get it out on track and drive it as intended. I cannot get close to the limit of my old shed on the road, let alone something with the dynamic capabilities of an F40. I'd want, even if just a few times, to get it out on track to enjoy it unshackled. I can see your point about an accident but you'd have to have a simply monumental accident to do too much damage.

I suppose I'm in a slightly peculiar mental place at the moment. In the last couple of years three of my closest friends have passed away - all in their 20s. I'm afraid it has given me a completely different view of the world. I don't want to lie on my death bed thinking "if only..."

Still, there are dreamers and there are doers. I'm a dreamer so will probably never get to find out! Enjoy your F40 but don't pamper it too much - it's a driving tool as much as anything else. Envy consumes me.

My F40 will come via the same route as yours which is something we probably shouldnt be thinking about.
That said if it ever does Im not sure my gonads are big enough to risk my and my sons future to do the likes of Brands GP circuit and risk a significant dent in the live happy ever after fund :-)

[woppum]

I once went to beford in a Csl. Was following an f40 round the track and it was me that got kicked off. Useless useless place

[chevronb37]

TISPKJ said:

My F40 will come via the same route as yours which is something we probably shouldnt be thinking about.
That said if it ever does Im not sure my gonads are big enough to risk my and my sons future to do the likes of Brands GP circuit and risk a significant dent in the live happy ever after fund :-)

Yeah, not a very nice thought. My dad is pretty laissez-faire about it, my mother thinks it's a ridiculous idea. They're pre-warned at least!

I think there's a very valid argument for not using an F40 on track. They're extremely precious things and it would be very sad to see one damaged.

But I've spent my entire life around race tracks - there's barely a precious car in the world I haven't seen pranged at some point! In 99.9% of cases they get fixed up and get back out there doing what they do best: being fking fast.

Nick Mason once famously remarked, "a car only achieves its true beauty being driven near the limit of its potential." Couldn't agree more.

[Schnellmann]

chevronb37 said:

Yeah, not a very nice thought. My dad is pretty laissez-faire about it, my mother thinks it's a ridiculous idea. They're pre-warned at least!

I think there's a very valid argument for not using an F40 on track. They're extremely precious things and it would be very sad to see one damaged.

But I've spent my entire life around race tracks - there's barely a precious car in the world I haven't seen pranged at some point! In 99.9% of cases they get fixed up and get back out there doing what they do best: being fking fast.

Nick Mason once famously remarked, "a car only achieves its true beauty being driven near the limit of its potential." Couldn't agree more.

Although I agree with Nick Mason...he can afford to say that because crunching an F40 (or any of his cars) would not make the slightest bit of difference to his total wealth (a bit like me crashing my daughter's bicycle).

On the other hand, if you had scrimped and saved and put all your life's savings into an F40 (or equivalent) you might not feel like being so cavalier.

[MogulBoy]

Use F40s now while you still can.

Many of us Generation X pistonheaders (see what I did there?) hold this car on a pedestal and if we are lucky enough to have the means later in life, demand should be set to exceed supply for the foreseeable. However, byt the time that we shuffle off this mortal coil, our heirs may never have the possibity to enjoy them as we might (i.e. actually drive them as intended). Still - they will always make for very nice static objects and there's no reason to suggest that even given the relatively high production (for a supercar), they won't continue to appreciate and keep up with inflation when they are no longer treated as cars - but as artefacts.

P.S. Check out http://crassifieds.pistonheads.cn/home/used-cars in about 20 years time and you might find that a high proportion of the original 1,315 cars, possibly as many as 1,515 of them, will be up for sale and your smartphone OCR application should be able to make mincemeat out of the service history.

[JazzyO]

Schnellmann said:

Although I agree with Nick Mason...he can afford to say that because crunching an F40 (or any of his cars) would not make the slightest bit of difference to his total wealth (a bit like me crashing my daughter's bicycle).

On the other hand, if you had scrimped and saved and put all your life's savings into an F40 (or equivalent) you might not feel like being so cavalier.

I have driven my 458 at Spa in the rain, and I was very much feeling my way to, and sometimes a little over, the limit. The car represents a very significant part of my net worth and on the track I am not insured. This might seem like madness to some, but for me it is what owning a car like that is about. You need to keep your head on your shoulders and be very aware of what your limitations are as a driver (for instance, I passed on the last session because I knew I was getting tired). But if you do that, you are learning all the time and when the time comes to wave goodbye to your baby at least you can say you actually enjoyed it the way it was intended to be enjoyed. 458 on Spa - what an experience!

As for the F40 - it's very hard not to get close to the limit in that, in fact if the road is a bit damp you'll be spinning your wheels plenty of times. I did in my test drive.


Onno

[chevronb37]

I'm sure there is an element of that. NM is clearly not without means. But I also believe he's a racer through and through. That his 250GTO is regularly driven on track is indicative of that. I don't think it's a wealth thing per se, but instead just one of attitude.

Three years ago my dad bought his dream car - a brand new AMV8V. OK, it might be small fry compared to some but it was a big deal to him. He dotes over that car and worries endlessly about it. By comparison, my Exige is a far, far greater proportion of my net worth, but it's a different kind of car. I use it on track and don't worry too much about where it gets parked. It's a tool for driving and not much else.

I would never cast judgement on anybody else's decision on how to use their car. It's entirely an individual's right to use their car as they see fit. For me the F40's function is far more appealing than its form so I'd want to try and learn how to get it working a little. I wouldn't pretend to have the talent to do justice to such a machine but I'd like to try.

Oh and Onno - great story about using your 458 at Spa. It's a wonderful circuit and a wonderful car to enjoy on it. You don't get two chances at life.

[Camlet]

JazzyO said:

Schnellmann said:

Although I agree with Nick Mason...he can afford to say that because crunching an F40 (or any of his cars) would not make the slightest bit of difference to his total wealth (a bit like me crashing my daughter's bicycle).

On the other hand, if you had scrimped and saved and put all your life's savings into an F40 (or equivalent) you might not feel like being so cavalier.

I have driven my 458 at Spa in the rain, and I was very much feeling my way to, and sometimes a little over, the limit. The car represents a very significant part of my net worth and on the track I am not insured. This might seem like madness to some, but for me it is what owning a car like that is about. You need to keep your head on your shoulders and be very aware of what your limitations are as a driver (for instance, I passed on the last session because I knew I was getting tired). But if you do that, you are learning all the time and when the time comes to wave goodbye to your baby at least you can say you actually enjoyed it the way it was intended to be enjoyed. 458 on Spa - what an experience!

As for the F40 - it's very hard not to get close to the limit in that, in fact if the road is a bit damp you'll be spinning your wheels plenty of times. I did in my test drive.


Onno

Fair point. It's all down to the driver. Trouble is some are also complete pillocks.

I was member of the excellent Club Fiorano, run by the late, great Peter Gethin for Ferrari GB (before Ferrari HQ took it over, changed it to Fiorano Ferrari, more than doubled its cost and destroyed it). On a Club Fiorano day at Silverstone, we had the full GP circuit to ourselves and we had a fantastic morning session. Several Club members used their own 360 Challenge cars and there were a couple of F40s. The Club supplied their usual small fleet of gleaming red 360s too. Some of us were standing on the pitwall having finished our morning session and were watching other cars finishing theirs. A privately owned 360 appeared at the top of the straight.

We heard it before we saw it.

It had already badly lost control and the sickening sound of screeching tyres against the quiet circuit meant one knew this was going to be a big shunt. The 360 slammed going backwards into the pitwall then bizarrely managed to slam forward into the pitwall again such was its velocity, finishing crunched on the grass. Thankfully both the driver and intructor managed to get out unhurt.

Peter Gethin checked the driver and then pulled his young intructor aside, who was almost in tears. Peter looked extremely angry with his instructor for obvious reasons but it become quickly clear the driver had ignored the intructors repeated demands - the driver continued to use dirty track after being told not to (it was two weeks after that year's British F1 GP) and had switched off his traction control. The crash was so voilent (and upclose) it ruined the rest of the day for all of us.

The driver was a pillock and dangerously arrogant. Even more worrying, he was a bloody top surgeon.

[70proof]

Camlet said:

The driver was a pillock and dangerously arrogant. Even more worrying, he was a bloody top surgeon.

wouldnt be a surgeon unless he was an arrogant pillock!!!!

[Camlet]

70proof said:

Camlet said:

The driver was a pillock and dangerously arrogant. Even more worrying, he was a bloody top surgeon.

wouldnt be a surgeon unless he was an arrogant pillock!!!!

M, you're da man.........and not at all arrogant....but given what you drive......

[TISPKJ]

Onno, fair play to you for using your car as intended, many years ago with the bikes and then more recently the cars I did the same although had some insurance cover with the GT3, if I bin it on track my fault I pay.
Problem is the accidents are normally instigated by some other muppet as in the story above, you come out of the corner to find a spinning 360 bouncing from wall to wall .....

[Justices]

Buy them. Use them.

http://youtu.be/hxj3zmFaO54

[JamieBeeston]

Just been out for a spin and am reminded why this car is so awesome.

The cold weather really makes this car shine in terms of noise and performance... Match it with a cold but dry day and its simply sublime!

The smell.. the buzzing of the engine, the noise, the handling and the oh so brutal acceleration!

:xmassmile:

[JazzyO]

TISPKJ said:

Onno, fair play to you for using your car as intended, many years ago with the bikes and then more recently the cars I did the same although had some insurance cover with the GT3, if I bin it on track my fault I pay.
Problem is the accidents are normally instigated by some other muppet as in the story above, you come out of the corner to find a spinning 360 bouncing from wall to wall .....

It is a risk, no doubt. I was almost t-boned one by an idiot in an F430 who lost control the first corner after the pace car left the track.... too stupid to realise what would happen if he buried the throttle mid corner with CST off. At the right track days, for instance with the Ferrari club, the risk is less. more supervision, better imstruction, and best of all fewer cars. We were on Spa with about 12 cars at a time, that is not many on that long circuit.

It also has to be said that I wouldn't take my F40 to the track often. I don't do it with my 458 either, twice a year is enough.

But some comments on value are exaggerated. If you know you want to track your F40, you wouldn't a museum piece. It is perfectly possible to buy an F40, own it for a few years, track it once or twice a year, and sell it for a modest profit or at most a little depreciation.


Onno

Edited by JazzyO on Monday 24th December 08:29

[K50 DEL]

JazzyO said:

But some comments on value are exaggerated. If you know you want to track your F40, you wouldn't a museum piece. It is perfectly possible to buy an F40, own it for a few years, track it once or twice a year, and sell it for a modest profit or at most a little depreciation.


Onno

If I'm lucky enough that they're still achievable in a few years then that's exactly what I shall aim to do.
I see little point in owning a car and not enjoying it as much as possible.

[DCBath]

i know of a private sale 2 weeks ago of a 1 owner cat /adjust car, 8k km. sold for 495k. i think over time the spread in price between higher and lower miles cars will close. my car is a '91 cat/adjust with 22k on the clock. 2 owner. i am third. owned since 2008. ha been totally hassle free. if anyone is thinking of buying i would highly recommend bob houghton and his team. they are absolutely first rate and a pleasure to deal with. i looked at 6 cars before i bought mine,